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Re: 20mph online petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
Didn’t Welsh Labour have the speed limit reduction in their last manifesto?
Didn’t Labour form a WAG administration on the back of that election?
Isn’t Drakeford and his party implementing the policy on which they were elected?
Where’s the democracy in that?
Are you assuming that every voter reads every single word of every manifesto?
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Re: 20mph online petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tomcat
She has explained the figures and it's correct. You really are an argumentative person though, totally uncalled for too.
I didn't argue, I just asked why Sunak, Barclay, and Hunt don't do it?
Does your wife know more than them?
It's a question, not an argument.
Logically it doesn't sound right, Giving stuff away free is cheaper than charging for it?
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Re: 20mph online petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
Are you assuming that every voter reads every single word of every manifesto?
No, but given the hoo-ha that it’s created the political media, who should be going through the manifestos of all parties picking out and highlighting items that could be pertinent, failed miserably to inform the electorate. The sitting Labour Party in the Senedd are within their rights to say that they haven’t just thought this up in the last fortnight (as I’m sure some seem to think), it’s been there in black & white pre the last elections.
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Re: 20mph online petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
Are you assuming that every voter reads every single word of every manifesto?
No - of course not.
But neither do I agree that an online petition with a lot of signatures, but far fewer than take part in the WAG election, should have more weight for elected politicians than the mandate of their wider electorate.
I don’t live in Wales so I’m not going to get into the argument about the pros and cons - but whilst the petition is significant it shouldn’t be seen as the only indicator of public opinion.
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Re: 20mph online petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
splott parker
No, but given the hoo-ha that it’s created the political media, who should be going through the manifestos of all parties picking out and highlighting items that could be pertinent, failed miserably to inform the electorate. The sitting Labour Party in the Senedd are within their rights to say that they haven’t just thought this up in the last fortnight (as I’m sure some seem to think), it’s been there in black & white pre the last elections.
They tried it, everyone hated it, they knew that and went ahead anyway, stupidity and will cost them votes and will hasten Drakefords leaving, hopefully at least we will get that out of it :thumbup:
They will back pedal too and allow councils to stick and turn some back, it is just a idiotic thing to do and waste of public money that was needed for vital services.
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Re: 20mph online petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tomcat
She has explained the figures and it's correct. You really are an argumentative person though, totally uncalled for too.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk...es-in-england/
This seems logical, give it to kids old people, ill people, but not to me, I can afford it?
This seems logical too
https://www.york.ac.uk/news-and-even...ption-charges/
Anyway there may be some logic to this, 20mph is nonsense though, as was no travel five miles to go to a beach, as is triple council tax and ruining the tourist industry.
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Re: 20mph online petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
North Cardiff Blue
They tried it, everyone hated it, they knew that and went ahead anyway, stupidity and will cost them votes and will hasten Drakefords leaving, hopefully at least we will get that out of it :thumbup:
They will back pedal too and allow councils to stick and turn some back, it is just a idiotic thing to do and waste of public money that was needed for vital services.
Why do you say ‘everyone hated it’? That’s a hell of a sweeping assumption.
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Re: 20mph online petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
splott parker
Why do you say ‘everyone hated it’? That’s a hell of a sweeping assumption.
Cardiff playing well :thumbup:
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Re: 20mph online petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
North Cardiff Blue
Cardiff playing well :thumbup:
Under the cosh a bit but some decent breaks unfortunately coming to nothing, we’re still well in this game.
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Re: 20mph online petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
No - of course not.
But neither do I agree that an online petition with a lot of signatures, but far fewer than take part in the WAG election, should have more weight for elected politicians than the mandate of their wider electorate.
I don’t live in Wales so I’m not going to get into the argument about the pros and cons - but whilst the petition is significant it shouldn’t be seen as the only indicator of public opinion.
A decent democratic government would have put those at the forefront of thier election as well as the increase on minsters all of which will cost Welsh takepayers millions at a time we need better health care , housing ,policing ? Not some policy or project that is built on definate evidence it will deliver 33 million plus.
A number of socalist minded local authority Chief Executives will tell you in private that WAG and Drakeford and not good for Wales. Its thier policy and no one else's. So democratic.
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Re: 20mph online petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
xsnaggle
And there is no way anyone will ever be able to prove that is hasn't. After a year the Gov can put out whatever figure it wants, it will only be an opinion. And £90million over what period?
Its all about what if. Maybe road deaths will fall anyway, but what if the go up? will the Gov say it was because of the speed limit change I doubt they would ever admit it) or put out some other reason?
It will be like the drastic fall in tourist revenue it will be because of some other factor(s) never ever as a result of any new rules or regulations the Gov bring in.
The don't have the balls to admit they're wrong. Drakeford has already said about the petition that he has no intention of taking any notice of it, so where is the democrcy in that? When asked he gave a 1 word answer "No"
drastic fall in tourist revenue lmao
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Re: 20mph online petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
drastic fall in tourist revenue lmao
you wouldn't laugh if you were one who relies on tourism for his/her living
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Re: 20mph online petition
Hasn't almost everywhere in the developed world introduced similar limits in city centres ?
https://www.europeandatajournalism.e...-h-regrets-it/
..which is actually 18mph or there abouts.
**** me, there are some whingers about.
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Re: 20mph online petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Divine Wright
The ones moaning on this thread are busy individuals it seems. They can post all day on here and still get a days work in. I can see how this speed limit could be affecting their busy lives.
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Re: 20mph online petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
splott parker
Under the cosh a bit but some decent breaks unfortunately coming to nothing, we’re still well in this game.
Get in :thumbup: :ayatollah::ayatollah::ayatollah: What a win, Alnwick was brilliant !!!!
Well done Erol and all the team, another clean sheet class!!!!!
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Re: 20mph online petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tuerto
The ones moaning on this thread are busy individuals it seems. They can post all day on here and still get a days work in. I can see how this speed limit could be affecting their busy lives.
I'm more worried about the other 400 thousand odd clowns. Paints a backward image of society in Wales. Same thing witht the Covid measures and brexit. As you say though, too many people with too much time on their hands and not much going on upstairs.
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Re: 20mph online petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Divine Wright
Are you whinging about whingers? :biggrin:
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Re: 20mph online petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tuerto
The ones moaning on this thread are busy individuals it seems. They can post all day on here and still get a days work in. I can see how this speed limit could be affecting their busy lives.
Busy people can post on here, do work and come back, if you want a job done give it to a busy person, they can fit more in.
They don't like being slowed down though just for the sake of it at a whim.
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Re: 20mph online petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tuerto
The ones moaning on this thread are busy individuals it seems. They can post all day on here and still get a days work in. I can see how this speed limit could be affecting their busy lives.
Yeah we definitely don't want to encourage people to post on this message board.
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Re: 20mph online petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
Are you assuming that every voter reads every single word of every manifesto?
It is confusing having a party who deliver on manifesto pledges. At least we all know where we stand with continuous U-turns based on whichever direction the wind is blowing .
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Re: 20mph online petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
caerkid
It is confusing having a party who deliver on manifesto pledges. At least we all know where we stand with continuous U-turns based on whichever direction the wind is blowing .
Labour should have u turned, which means you've considered the issues at the time and acted accordingly, if you see it's going to be a disaster and lose your votes, why go ahead?
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Re: 20mph online petition
Just driven through Radyr at 20mph. All the while a block was tailgating me, trying to overtake. He was motioning with his arm for me to pull in to let him pass. Idiot.
Oh, and he was riding an electric bike.
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Re: 20mph online petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
North Cardiff Blue
Labour should have u turned, which means you've considered the issues at the time and acted accordingly, if you see it's going to be a disaster and lose your votes, why go ahead?
I don't think it will be a disaster, where's the disaster so far? a small amount of mild inconvenience is surely worth saving several lives?
to think of it another way, if there was a magic button you could press to make your commute 2 minutes shorter every day, but if you pressed it 10 random people in Wales would die would you press the button?
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Re: 20mph online petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
I don't think it will be a disaster, where's the disaster so far? a small amount of mild inconvenience is surely worth saving several lives?
to think of it another way, if there was a magic button you could press to make your commute 2 minutes shorter every day, but if you pressed it 10 random people in Wales would die would you press the button?
Silly analogy anyway but where did you get the information that 10 peoples lives would be saved by these measures ? Surely you didn't believe the propaganda machine of the WAG and the bunch of loonies who are the co-inventors of the project (the campaign for walking and cycling everywhere, even if there is no public transport/trains/taxis or whatever the hell they are called). If so, you have been duped.
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Re: 20mph online petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
Silly analogy anyway but where did you get the information that 10 peoples lives would be saved by these measures ? Surely you didn't believe the propaganda machine of the WAG and the bunch of loonies who are the co-inventors of the project (the campaign for walking and cycling everywhere, even if there is no public transport/trains/taxis or whatever the hell they are called). If so, you have been duped.
The chance of someone being killed being hit by a car driving 30mph is significantly higher than at 20mph. It's as simple as that. If it slows people's days down a bit even to prevent 1 death, it is worth the reduction in speed limits.
Annoying and irritating behind the wheel, absolutely. Ultimately a minor inconvenience to make roads safer ? Also absolutely.
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Re: 20mph online petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
caerkid
It is confusing having a party who deliver on manifesto pledges. At least we all know where we stand with continuous U-turns based on whichever direction the wind is blowing .
I don't count a vague one line policy in a long document that almost no one reads as sufficient notice or detail of what their intentions actually were. This was obviously a deliberate ploy. They have gone way beyond what the insinuation was they would do and made the actual situation almost impossible to comprehend on the ground. Worse still, they have apparently fabricated information to baffle the public and back up what they have done. Over 426000 people have now pointed this out to them but they are choosing to ignore it. I am a law abiding citizen but in this particular case I make an exception. It is not a law, it is a diktat by a power mad megalomanic and his cronies.
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Re: 20mph online petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
I don't count a vague one line policy in a long document that almost no one reads as sufficient notice or detail of what their intentions actually were. This was obviously a deliberate ploy. They have gone way beyond what the insinuation was they would do and made the actual situation almost impossible to comprehend on the ground. Worse still, they have apparently fabricated information to baffle the public and back up what they have done. Over 426000 people have now pointed this out to them but they are choosing to ignore it. I am a law abiding citizen but in this particular case I make an exception. It is not a law, it is a diktat by a power mad megalomanic and his cronies.
:hehe::hehe::hehe::hehe::hehe::hehe:
Mark Jong Putin will have your internet off next everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: 20mph online petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
I don't count a vague one line policy in a long document that almost no one reads as sufficient notice or detail of what their intentions actually were. This was obviously a deliberate ploy. They have gone way beyond what the insinuation was they would do and made the actual situation almost impossible to comprehend on the ground. Worse still, they have apparently fabricated information to baffle the public and back up what they have done. Over 426000 people have now pointed this out to them but they are choosing to ignore it. I am a law abiding citizen but in this particular case I make an exception. It is not a law, it is a diktat by a power mad megalomanic and his cronies.
There was nothing vague in their manifesto about this.
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Re: 20mph online petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
I don't count a vague one line policy in a long document that almost no one reads as sufficient notice or detail of what their intentions actually were. This was obviously a deliberate ploy. They have gone way beyond what the insinuation was they would do and made the actual situation almost impossible to comprehend on the ground. Worse still, they have apparently fabricated information to baffle the public and back up what they have done. Over 426000 people have now pointed this out to them but they are choosing to ignore it. I am a law abiding citizen but in this particular case I make an exception. It is not a law, it is a diktat by a power mad megalomanic and his cronies.
all the other places that have introduced this sensible measure - are they all diktats by power mad megalomaniacs as well?
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Re: 20mph online petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Der Kaiser
The chance of someone being killed being hit by a car driving 30mph is significantly higher than at 20mph. It's as simple as that. If it slows people's days down a bit even to prevent 1 death, it is worth the reduction in speed limits.
Annoying and irritating behind the wheel, absolutely. Ultimately a minor inconvenience to make roads safer ? Also absolutely.
That is your perception of the data but unfortunately not mine. The research used to back up their case was provided by the WAG themselves in conjunction with people they paid to do it. Hardly reliable. There are a range of reasons why people are killed on the roads and speed is only one of them. The logical conclusion to what the WAG is doing is that they will eventually ban all cars from the roads because that would save more deaths/injuries than allowing 20mph. If course, they would never do that, would they, because they would lose millions in revenue that they already squeeze out of cash strapped motorists.
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Re: 20mph online petition
Drive today RCT to Caerphilly CBC area. Again the extra time was in seconds rather than minutes.
Also someone mentioned it was going to be harder to pull out at junctions or turn into roads. Completely the opposite today. Cars easily did both ahead of me as I was doing 20. They wouldnt have been able to do either if I was doing 30.
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Re: 20mph online petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
That is your perception of the data but unfortunately not mine. The research used to back up their case was provided by the WAG themselves in conjunction with people they paid to do it. Hardly reliable. There are a range of reasons why people are killed on the roads and speed is only one of them. The logical conclusion to what the WAG is doing is that they will eventually ban all cars from the roads because that would save more deaths/injuries than allowing 20mph. If course, they would never do that, would they, because they would lose millions in revenue that they already squeeze out of cash strapped motorists.
that isn't a logical conclusion at all
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Re: 20mph online petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
I don't count a vague one line policy in a long document that almost no one reads as sufficient notice or detail of what their intentions actually were. This was obviously a deliberate ploy. They have gone way beyond what the insinuation was they would do and made the actual situation almost impossible to comprehend on the ground. Worse still, they have apparently fabricated information to baffle the public and back up what they have done. Over 426000 people have now pointed this out to them but they are choosing to ignore it. I am a law abiding citizen but in this particular case I make an exception. It is not a law, it is a diktat by a power mad megalomanic and his cronies.
Then get out on the streets, get organised and make your voice heard. Protest! You wont do anything, because the reality is that it isn't that inconvenient for you, it doesn't make that much difference to your life or anyone elses for that matter, except maybe those involved in a collision with a vehicle.
You have every right to be angry or disagree with the policy, but you and the rest will just sit on a football messageboard moaning and groaning. It's really funny watching the old Tories melting down. Keep up the good work :thumbup:
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Re: 20mph online petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hilts
Drive today RCT to Caerphilly CBC area. Again the extra time was in seconds rather than minutes.
Also someone mentioned it was going to be harder to pull out at junctions or turn into roads. Completely the opposite today. Cars easily did both ahead of me as I was doing 20. They wouldnt have been able to do either if I was doing 30.
I drove from Birchgrove up to Cefn onn park. Caerphilly road is 20 mph, as is a section of Thornhill rd, which goes up to 30 just before the crematorium. The road through Thornhill,past Sainsbury's and on to the park was 20. I reckon that it put 2 minutes on my journey time.
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Re: 20mph online petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tuerto
I drove from Birchgrove up to Cefn onn park. Caerphilly road is 20 mph, as is a section of Thornhill rd, which goes up to 30 just before the crematorium. The road through Thornhill,past Sainsbury's and on to the park was 20. I reckon that it put 2 minutes on my journey time.
And that's a journey of about 3 miles
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Re: 20mph online petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
all the other places that have introduced this sensible measure - are they all diktats by power mad megalomaniacs as well?
No idea. We live in Wales and the UK, so only interested in those areas. 426000 people disagree with you. 2700 agree with you.
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Re: 20mph online petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tuerto
Then get out on the streets, get organised and make your voice heard. Protest! You wont do anything, because the reality is that it isn't that inconvenient for you, it doesn't make that much difference to your life or anyone elses for that matter, except maybe those involved in a collision with a vehicle.
You have every right to be angry or disagree with the policy, but you and the rest will just sit on a football messageboard moaning and groaning. It's really funny watching the old Tories melting down. Keep up the good work :thumbup:
Not a Tory. Not a Socialist either. Just don’t understand how anyone can support a man and a party who is basically ruining the Welsh economy and dictating to the population how they live their lives.
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Re: 20mph online petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Der Kaiser
:hehe::hehe::hehe::hehe::hehe::hehe:
Mark Jong Putin will have your internet off next everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How would you describe Mr Drakeford then ?
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Re: 20mph online petition
20’s Plenty for Us signed by 15 groups including Action for Children, Cardiff Cycling Campaign, Friends of the Earth Cymru, Sport Wales, Living Streets Cymru, Action Vision Zero, Brake, Children in Wales, Cycling UK Cymru, UK Noise Association, Sustrans Cymru, RoadPeace, Playing Out, Play Wales and Natural Resources Wales
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Re: 20mph online petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
That is your perception of the data but unfortunately not mine. The research used to back up their case was provided by the WAG themselves in conjunction with people they paid to do it. Hardly reliable. There are a range of reasons why people are killed on the roads and speed is only one of them. The logical conclusion to what the WAG is doing is that they will eventually ban all cars from the roads because that would save more deaths/injuries than allowing 20mph. If course, they would never do that, would they, because they would lose millions in revenue that they already squeeze out of cash strapped motorists.
I would think any lives they believe they are saving with this measure is more than being made up for with the ridiculous ambulance waiting times and then the amount of time it takes to get from that ambulance to an actual hospital bed that takes lives unnecessarily
