The War starts Putin announces "Military Operation" in Ukraine. Explosions heard in Kyiv

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Originally Posted by jon1959

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion

I don't know why a neo-Nazi militia was incorporated into the Ukranian army - seems like a propaganda gift to Putin.

But they number less than 2% of the Ukranian army. They are part of the story, but a small part.

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Agreed they have an unpalatable past and still seem to have some extremely dubious traits given the opening paragraph on their current composition in this article of two days ago.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/w...zi/9368016002/

No mention of nazi paraphanalia but as the other article posted for some reason was 8 years old that perhaps is not surprising!

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Originally Posted by jon1959

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion

I don't know why a neo-Nazi militia was incorporated into the Ukranian army - seems like a propaganda gift to Putin.

But they number less than 2% of the Ukranian army. They are part of the story, but a small part.

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its no secret the the azov battalion was formed by a group of " football hooligans " ( who appeared to be right wing ) and right wing / nationalist politicians ( Ross Kemp did program on them a few years back )

But lets be honest, East Europe countries have issues with the right wing, a lot of the " Ultra's " align themselves with the far right , this isn't just a Azov batt problem, its a problem the region has

The Azov has now moved on a little, they appear to be foreign fighters who have fought the Russians around Mariupol, when Ross did his program the Ukrainian army was very under-funded and the azoz batt was much better equipped and funded

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Originally Posted by jon1959

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion

I don't know why a neo-Nazi militia was incorporated into the Ukranian army - seems like a propaganda gift to Putin.

But they number less than 2% of the Ukranian army. They are part of the story, but a small part.

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There's a portion of every army that has ultra right wing thinking arseholes.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion

I don't know why a neo-Nazi militia was incorporated into the Ukranian army - seems like a propaganda gift to Putin.

But they number less than 2% of the Ukranian army. They are part of the story, but a small part.

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Think it’s very hard to see this war in straightforward left and right terms. Having grown up thinking that the Cold War was a case of left versus right, I find it impossible to place such simplistic definitions this time and was, almost certainly, wrong to do so thirty and forty years ago. It seems to me that those most sympathetic to Putin and anti NATO can be found on the extremes of the political right and left and, whatever the merits of the various claims about Russian influence in Brexit and the 2016 American election, I think it’s safe to say that Putin favoured the more right wing option. Conversely, especially given Trump’s comments on the situation just before the Russian invasion began, it would not surprise me in the least if many of the “patriots” that overran the White House last year are pro Putin and Russia in the current situation.

It was probably ever so, but, for me, this in a conflict between two sides with plenty of blood on their hands, plenty of decisions made against what I’ll naively call the public good and with flawed people at the head of them - the difference for me is that I see only one leader who comes across as a psychopath who I could easily imagine pressing the nuclear button.

It seems to me that “the West” have allowed this situation to develop through a combination of complacency and a desire for a “quiet life” - I make no great claims regarding my insight when it comes to Putin, but I fail to see how any Western leader could not see this coming, the signs that it was were pretty clear after all. The only surprise for me has been how quickly we’ve come to this and the degree to which Putin has gambled his future on Ukraine - it almost makes me believe those claims that he may be seriously ill or dying.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion

I don't know why a neo-Nazi militia was incorporated into the Ukranian army - seems like a propaganda gift to Putin.

But they number less than 2% of the Ukranian army. They are part of the story, but a small part.

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Maybe, but however wicked and evil Putin's actions against Ukraine are, I refuse to join in the Ukraine love-in. Zelenski came to power in Ukraine on the back of USA and the West's involvement. He's banned newspapers and media that criticizes him, and in the eastern regions the ethnic Russian speakers are being forcibly subsumed into the Ukrainian culture. As for the Nazi bit, when the SS wanted the cruelest, most brutal 'overseers' in the concentration camps, they turned to the Ukrainians. I'm desperately sorry for their plight, but they ain't the nicest of people collectively.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Think it’s very hard to see this war in straightforward left and right terms. Having grown up thinking that the Cold War was a case of left versus right, I find it impossible to place such simplistic definitions this time and was, almost certainly, wrong to do so thirty and forty years ago. It seems to me that those most sympathetic to Putin and anti NATO can be found on the extremes of the political right and left and, whatever the merits of the various claims about Russian influence in Brexit and the 2016 American election, I think it’s safe to say that Putin favoured the more right wing option. Conversely, especially given Trump’s comments on the situation just before the Russian invasion began, it would not surprise me in the least if many of the “patriots” that overran the White House last year are pro Putin and Russia in the current situation.

It was probably ever so, but, for me, this in a conflict between two sides with plenty of blood on their hands, plenty of decisions made against what I’ll naively call the public good and with flawed people at the head of them - the difference for me is that I see only one leader who comes across as a psychopath who I could easily imagine pressing the nuclear button.

It seems to me that “the West” have allowed this situation to develop through a combination of complacency and a desire for a “quiet life” - I make no great claims regarding my insight when it comes to Putin, but I fail to see how any Western leader could not see this coming, the signs that it was were pretty clear after all. The only surprise for me has been how quickly we’ve come to this and the degree to which Putin has gambled his future on Ukraine - it almost makes me believe those claims that he may be seriously ill or dying.

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A fair and balanced view that captures the complexity of the situation. Donbas seems to be the epicentre of the problem with it's many civilian casualties and deaths, and large numbers of refugees fleeing the area after 8 years of war. Without Donbas the Russians wouldn't be in Ukraine.

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

A fair and balanced view that captures the complexity of the situation. Donbas seems to be the epicentre of the problem with it's many civilian casualties and deaths, and large numbers of refugees fleeing the area after 8 years of war. Without Donbas the Russians wouldn't be in Ukraine.

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I've also seen it speculated that Crimea only has gas and electricity supplied to it through Ukraine, and that Russia want to secure the Donbas and the land in-between there and Crimea to be able to connect it with Russia

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

It seems to me that “the West” have allowed this situation to develop through a combination of complacency and a desire for a “quiet life” - I make no great claims regarding my insight when it comes to Putin, but I fail to see how any Western leader could not see this coming, the signs that it was were pretty clear after all.

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Regarding this specific point, the US have been involved from the get-go.

<yt-formatted-string force-default-style="" class="style-scope ytd-video-primary-info-renderer" style="word-break: break-word;">Nuland - Pyatt Phone call on Regime Change in Ukraine - 2014</yt-formatted-string>

<yt-formatted-string force-default-style="" class="style-scope ytd-video-primary-info-renderer" style="word-break: break-word;">GOP Senators McCain and Lindsey Graham foment war with Russia</yt-formatted-string>

Energy prices went vertical when markets reopened late last night. They have fallen back since but remain higher than what they closed at last Friday. Crude Oil and Heating Oil are currently plus 6%. https://oilprice.com/

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

Maybe, but however wicked and evil Putin's actions against Ukraine are, I refuse to join in the Ukraine love-in. Zelenski came to power in Ukraine on the back of USA and the West's involvement. He's banned newspapers and media that criticizes him, and in the eastern regions the ethnic Russian speakers are being forcibly subsumed into the Ukrainian culture. As for the Nazi bit, when the SS wanted the cruelest, most brutal 'overseers' in the concentration camps, they turned to the Ukrainians. I'm desperately sorry for their plight, but they ain't the nicest of people collectively.

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So you’re judging a country of 42 million by the historical actions of a small minority.
Do you feel the same about Germans and maybe even British people?

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Originally Posted by The Hooded Claw

So you’re judging a country of 42 million by the historical actions of a small minority.
Do you feel the same about Germans and maybe even British people?

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Er, what ? Did you read my brief post ?

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

Er, what ? Did you read my brief post ?

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You said “they ain’t the nicest collection of people collectively”. That’s a sweeping generalisation of a whole nation based on the actions of a minority, isn’t it?

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Originally Posted by The Hooded Claw

You said “they ain’t the nicest collection of people collectively”. That’s a sweeping generalisation of a whole nation based on the actions of a minority, isn’t it?

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I thought it was a bit sweeping….are all Russians like the Putin sponsored football hooligans/special forces at the euros in France also?

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

Maybe, but however wicked and evil Putin's actions against Ukraine are, I refuse to join in the Ukraine love-in. Zelenski came to power in Ukraine on the back of USA and the West's involvement. He's banned newspapers and media that criticizes him, and in the eastern regions the ethnic Russian speakers are being forcibly subsumed into the Ukrainian culture. As for the Nazi bit, when the SS wanted the cruelest, most brutal 'overseers' in the concentration camps, they turned to the Ukrainians. I'm desperately sorry for their plight, but they ain't the nicest of people collectively.

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Isn't that a rather absurd generalisation 77 years on from the end of WW2? Regarding the eastern region of Ukraine, I do wonder why the rest of Ukraine didn't just let it go over to the Russian side rather be in state of internal warfare for the last 8 years? I guess it's a bit like the northern Ireland situation where only a fraction of the population would like to be reunited with the rest of the island, it is impossible to please everybody.

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Originally Posted by The Hooded Claw

You said “they ain’t the nicest collection of people collectively”. That’s a sweeping generalisation of a whole nation based on the actions of a minority, isn’t it?

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A minority....80 years ago at that.

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Originally Posted by Gofer Blue

[/COLOR]

Isn't that a rather absurd generalisation 77 years on from the end of WW2? Regarding the eastern region of Ukraine, I do wonder why the rest of Ukraine didn't just let it go over to the Russian side rather be in state of internal warfare for the last 8 years? I guess it's a bit like the northern Ireland situation where only a fraction of the population would like to be reunited with the rest of the island, it is impossible to please everybody.

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I wasn't just referring to their historical context, I also highlighted several elements about the current regime/leader of Ukraine.
Obviously this chap doesn't agree :

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-60647206

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Originally Posted by Gofer Blue

[/COLOR]

Isn't that a rather absurd generalisation 77 years on from the end of WW2? Regarding the eastern region of Ukraine, I do wonder why the rest of Ukraine didn't just let it go over to the Russian side rather be in state of internal warfare for the last 8 years? I guess it's a bit like the northern Ireland situation where only a fraction of the population would like to be reunited with the rest of the island, it is impossible to please everybody.

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I think the majority in those regions did want to remain as part of Ukraine still, the Russian population was large there but a large minority, the Crimean had a higher percentage Russian

Noam Chomsky interview:

https://truthout.org/articles/noam-c.../#main-content

If Germany had showed some steel and been less selfish over thier desire for a sweat gas deal with its cozy neighbour Russia we wouldn't be here, its as is if Russia had planned this all along and Germany was either complicit or stupid.

A certain Trump fella was shouting about this back in 2019 , as he was with Germans poor contribution to NATO defence budget , both have come to be a dreadful reality , with many dead.

https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/stat...V3tzEsPng&s=19

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Originally Posted by jon1959

Noam Chomsky interview:

https://truthout.org/articles/noam-c.../#main-content

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A stark commentary yet hugely intelligent in its appraisal. Tough choices lay ahead.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/stat...V3tzEsPng&s=19

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The Cossacks would be appalled .

Cant buy intelligence or decency

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Originally Posted by life on mars

The Cossacks would be appalled .

Cant buy intelligence or decency

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From those interviewed, most Russians believe what their media tells them. Media everywhere is a great tool for shaping their readers and viewers opinions. In that video one says, "No one is bombing Kyiv. I don’t believe it." But plenty outside of Russia believe it is true because media in their countries say so.

One who doesn't believe a word of it is a British bouncer who has been in and around Kyiv for the past few days.

He tells us what we are being told is completely false and stage managed propaganda. He provides plenty of videos he's taken to support what he says at his twitter account.

Illusion Warfare Report:

The Road to Ukraine.

-Join me as I LARP my way onto the Hollywood movie set we know as Ukraine.

Will the matrix allow me to peak behind the curtains of a manufactured and manipulated world staged event?

https://twitter.com/LezLuthor/status...75827161554946

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Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.

From those interviewed, most Russians believe what their media tells them. Media everywhere is a great tool for shaping their readers and viewers opinions. In that video one says, "No one is bombing Kyiv. I don’t believe it." But plenty outside of Russia believe it is true because media in their countries say so.

One who doesn't believe a word of it is a British bouncer who has been in and around Kyiv for the past few days.

He tells us what we are being told is completely false and stage managed propaganda. He provides plenty of videos he's taken to support what he says at his twitter account.

Illusion Warfare Report:

The Road to Ukraine.

-Join me as I LARP my way onto the Hollywood movie set we know as Ukraine.

Will the matrix allow me to peak behind the curtains of a manufactured and manipulated world staged event?

https://twitter.com/LezLuthor/status...75827161554946

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It's kind of sick that you are repeating this bollocks.

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

Already moving to Unionpay which is larger than Mastercard and growing fast.

https://www.reuters.com/business/fin...em-2022-03-06/

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And almost impossible to use in the West.

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Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.

From those interviewed, most Russians believe what their media tells them. Media everywhere is a great tool for shaping their readers and viewers opinions. In that video one says, "No one is bombing Kyiv. I don’t believe it." But plenty outside of Russia believe it is true because media in their countries say so.

One who doesn't believe a word of it is a British bouncer who has been in and around Kyiv for the past few days.

He tells us what we are being told is completely false and stage managed propaganda. He provides plenty of videos he's taken to support what he says at his twitter account.

Illusion Warfare Report:

The Road to Ukraine.

-Join me as I LARP my way onto the Hollywood movie set we know as Ukraine.

Will the matrix allow me to peak behind the curtains of a manufactured and manipulated world staged event?

https://twitter.com/LezLuthor/status...75827161554946

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what an utter load of shite that guy has posted.

he's gone to parts of Ukraine that the Russians haven't reached yet to try to confirm his preconceived agenda that the war is fake.
looking at the rest of his Twitter feed the guy is an absolute loon.

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Originally Posted by life on mars

If Germany had showed some steel and been less selfish over thier desire for a sweat gas deal with its cozy neighbour Russia we wouldn't be here, its as is if Russia had planned this all along and Germany was either complicit or stupid.

A certain Trump fella was shouting about this back in 2019 , as he was with Germans poor contribution to NATO defence budget , both have come to be a dreadful reality , with many dead.

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Oh, **** off. You failed to mention the fact Trump wanted the US to leave NATO too and apparently bomb Russia in a "false flag" operation. If you're even implicitly defending Trump, you're as thick as him. Engage brain before posting utter bollocks, you craven twerp.

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

There's no profit in free energy.

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OMG, yes there is.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

what an utter load of shite that guy has posted.

he's gone to parts of Ukraine that the Russians haven't reached yet to try to confirm his preconceived agenda that the war is fake.
looking at the rest of his Twitter feed the guy is an absolute loon.

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He is probably a Russian mercenary or has Russian relatives this is great source for the truth

https://www.bellingcat.com/

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Originally Posted by az city

Oh, **** off. You failed to mention the fact Trump wanted the US to leave NATO too and apparently bomb Russia in a "false flag" operation. If you're even implicitly defending Trump, you're as thick as him. Engage brain before posting utter bollocks, you craven twerp.

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I like Trump new idea of painting USA planes with the Chinese's flag on war planes and fly into Russia to create a false flag war ,man is genius .

Love the way you avoid the first paragraph about Germany

:hehe:

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Originally Posted by stan butler

When training on the Beacons about ten years ago we had to cross a vast area of peat and i thought then that this once natual resorce will make a comeback in the future.
I was told theres huge amounts of peat in the uk and coal so maybe its uses should be encouraged

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Are you serious? Have you ever heard of climate change?

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Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.

From those interviewed, most Russians believe what their media tells them. Media everywhere is a great tool for shaping their readers and viewers opinions. In that video one says, "No one is bombing Kyiv. I don’t believe it." But plenty outside of Russia believe it is true because media in their countries say so.

One who doesn't believe a word of it is a British bouncer who has been in and around Kyiv for the past few days.

He tells us what we are being told is completely false and stage managed propaganda. He provides plenty of videos he's taken to support what he says at his twitter account.

Illusion Warfare Report:

The Road to Ukraine.

-Join me as I LARP my way onto the Hollywood movie set we know as Ukraine.

Will the matrix allow me to peak behind the curtains of a manufactured and manipulated world staged event?

https://twitter.com/LezLuthor/status...75827161554946

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The Russians haven't gained the kind of air superiority that would allow them to bomb parts of Ukraine in the manner that they would like to. However, Kyiv and other cities are certainly coming under heavy artillery fire.

Those destroyed buildings look very real to me.

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Originally Posted by life on mars

He is probably a Russian mercenary or has Russian relatives this is great source for the truth

https://www.bellingcat.com/

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no I don't think he's a Russian or paid by Russia, I think he's just an idiot who likes to feel important by sharing ridiculous conspiracy theories and having the other idiots tell him how important the work he is doing is.

pathetic really

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Originally Posted by Rjk

what an utter load of shite that guy has posted.

he's gone to parts of Ukraine that the Russians haven't reached yet to try to confirm his preconceived agenda that the war is fake.
looking at the rest of his Twitter feed the guy is an absolute loon.

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I like this one https://twitter.com/LezLuthor/status...Ffn4jYBcwSI_yA

Glad that Organ Morgan's finally bringing his...erm...theories off the backwaters of the politics board and onto the main area though

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Originally Posted by az city

Are you serious? Have you ever heard of climate change?

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I think I have. Didn't it used to be called global warming ?

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

I think I have. Didn't it used to be called global warming ?

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it did, but it was too confusing for some people who can't understand why some days are still cold.

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Originally Posted by life on mars

I like Trump new idea of painting USA planes with the Chinese's flag on war planes and fly into Russia to create a false flag war ,man is genius .

Love the way you avoid the first paragraph about Germany

:hehe:

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You think war crimes are the best response and solution?

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Originally Posted by delmbox

I like this one https://twitter.com/LezLuthor/status...Ffn4jYBcwSI_yA

Glad that Organ Morgan's finally bringing his...erm...theories off the backwaters of the politics board and onto the main area though

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You have to wonder why the Illuminati, or world economic forum or whoever the lunatics are currently saying is controlling the world, would go to the efforts of creating a fake pandemic and fake nuclear war build up lately.

Weren't they doing a decent enough job of controlling the world before? After all, no one except a band of bedroom sleuths had noticed their dastardly actions.

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Originally Posted by lardy

You have to wonder why the Illuminati, or world economic forum or whoever the lunatics are currently saying is controlling the world, would go to the efforts of creating a fake pandemic and fake nuclear war build up lately.

Weren't they doing a decent enough job of controlling the world before? After all, no one except a band of bedroom sleuths had noticed their dastardly actions.

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I like the fact that they keep putting "33" in their Illuminati videos, as even though it's a secret conspiracy they can't resist a little clue now and then, like the Riddler from batman.

https://twitter.com/MarinaPurkiss/st...cy1u-kSmQ&s=19