Justice for George Floyd petition

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

I'm probably being completely ignorant here but what are these protests in the UK actually about. What do the people attending specifically want to change here?

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1) The main reason is to show solidarity with the protestors in America
2) The killing of George Floyd has got people talking about racism in various countries. In the UK, there have been 1741 deaths of BAME people filling police contact since 1990 so the protest would also raise that issue and bring awareness
3) Possibly the fact that the UK sells rubber bullets to the US and people want the sales to stop - see the Independent link I posted

Recent points include Belly Mujinga, a railway worker who died from COVID, after someone spat at her and the BAME population being disproportionately affected by COVID but some action seems to have started, possibly due to the pressures from people

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

I'm probably being completely ignorant here but what are these protests in the UK actually about. What do the people attending specifically want to change here?

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The guy who spoke in Cardiff said he didn’t want to live in fear of being killed by police because of the colour of his skin. Perhaps he was from the USA and was just on vacation.

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Originally Posted by adz-a32

1) The main reason is to show solidarity with the protestors in America
2) The killing of George Floyd has got people talking about racism in various countries. In the UK, there have been 1741 deaths of BAME people filling police contact since 1990 so the protest would also raise that issue and bring awareness
3) Possibly the fact that the UK sells rubber bullets to the US and people want the sales to stop - see the Independent link I posted

Recent points include Belly Mujinga, a railway worker who died from COVID, after someone spat at her and the BAME population being disproportionately affected by COVID but some action seems to have started, possibly due to the pressures from people

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There will be a lot more people dying of covid thanks to these protests. People who didn’t attend a march will also die as a result of your/their selfish actions.

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

There will be a lot more people dying of covid thanks to these protests. People who didn’t attend a march will also die as a result of your/their selfish actions.

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I didn’t attend the march due to the pandemic. I want to protest, but on the other hand, I don’t want my actions indirectly killing someone, which is why I didn’t go.

However, I think it is OTT to call someone who goes to a protest as ‘selfish’ as they are putting themselves at risk too for a cause.

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Originally Posted by adz-a32

I didn’t attend the march due to the pandemic. I want to protest, but on the other hand, I don’t want my actions indirectly killing someone, which is why I didn’t go.

However, I think it is OTT to call someone who goes to a protest as ‘selfish’ as they are putting themselves at risk too for a cause.

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And in the middle of a pandemic, as you’ve rightly pointed out, It’s not just yourself you are putting at risk it is others too. I’m sorry, but that is selfish.

You want to show solidarity with America but at the expense of lives in this country. That’s selfish.

Especially the BAME community who are at more risk.

The Cardiff one, due to controllable numbers was respectfully social distanced. Manchester and London was another kettle of fish.

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

The guy who spoke in Cardiff said he didn’t want to live in fear of being killed by police because of the colour of his skin. Perhaps he was from the USA and was just on vacation.

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Do you think black people in this country get treated equally and without discrimination by the police , the courts etc ?

Are you aware of the high disproportionate number of deaths of black men in police custody ?

You do realise that black men have been killed by the police in this country ?

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Do you think black people in this country get treated equally and without discrimination by the police , the courts etc ?

Are you aware of the high disproportionate number of deaths of black men in police custody ?

You do realise that black men have been killed by the police in this country ?

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164 people have died in police custody in the last 10 years. 140 of them white.

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

And in the middle of a pandemic, as you’ve rightly pointed out, It’s not just yourself you are putting at risk it is others too. I’m sorry, but that is selfish.

You want to show solidarity with America but at the expense of lives in this country. That’s selfish.

Especially the BAME community who are at more risk.

The Cardiff one, due to controllable numbers was respectfully social distanced. Manchester and London was another kettle of fish.

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Can you read? I said that I did not attend the march

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Originally Posted by adz-a32

Can you read? I said that I did not attend the march

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I am taking about the people who have marched not you. You’ve already contradicted yourself by admitting you haven’t marched because of the pandemic leading to deaths of others, but refuse to condemn those who have.

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Originally Posted by adz-a32

1) The main reason is to show solidarity with the protestors in America
2) The killing of George Floyd has got people talking about racism in various countries. In the UK, there have been 1741 deaths of BAME people filling police contact since 1990 so the protest would also raise that issue and bring awareness
3) Possibly the fact that the UK sells rubber bullets to the US and people want the sales to stop - see the Independent link I posted

Recent points include Belly Mujinga, a railway worker who died from COVID, after someone spat at her and the BAME population being disproportionately affected by COVID but some action seems to have started, possibly due to the pressures from people

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Bringing awareness to what exactly? That when you actually break down that number it isn't very significant?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52890363

The case of Belly Mujinga is tragic, but I am baffled as to why you think it's a racism one. The anger should be at her employer for allowing her to work despite her underlying conditions. When the spitter was tested for antibodies, it came back negative (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-52853859), so again, the anger should be at her worker for allowing her to remain in a customer facing role. Strangely that case works against your justification for protests because there will likely be more people out there who will get this virus and die directly because of these protests.

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Originally Posted by adz-a32

I didn’t attend the march due to the pandemic. I want to protest, but on the other hand, I don’t want my actions indirectly killing someone, which is why I didn’t go.

However, I think it is OTT to call someone who goes to a protest as ‘selfish’ as they are putting themselves at risk too for a cause.

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A time and a place, you have seen that the current situation with Covid19 means this is not the time

but i know people will say " strike while the iron is hot " is the reason, but the responsible action is to wait

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Do you think black people in this country get treated equally and without discrimination by the police , the courts etc ?

Are you aware of the high disproportionate number of deaths of black men in police custody ?

You do realise that black men have been killed by the police in this country ?

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Any sources for the disproportionate claims?

Yes, black people have been killed by police in this country, but that isn't what these protests are about because it isn't an issue here. I've linked the police deaths so you can look through and pick out ones that were unlawful, you'll note that the worst cases were decades back (and not all related to race).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...United_Kingdom

Trying to conflate US police issues with our issues is insulting and undermines the movement in the US.

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

164 people have died in police custody in the last 10 years. 140 of them white.

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Surprisingly the vast majority of people in this country are not black

The fact that 24 black men have died in police custody is disproportionately high

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Originally Posted by blue matt

A time and a place, you have seen that the current situation with Covid19 means this is not the time

but i know people will say " strike while the iron is hot " is the reason, but the responsible action is to wait

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Not that I agree with them but can you imagine if the Brexiteers marched for the cause they believe in?

There would be ructions, mainly from those that have marched today.

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Originally Posted by adz-a32

I didn’t attend the march due to the pandemic. I want to protest, but on the other hand, I don’t want my actions indirectly killing someone, which is why I didn’t go.

However, I think it is OTT to call someone who goes to a protest as ‘selfish’ as they are putting themselves at risk too for a cause.

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You might protest which is normally fine, you may come in contact with a carrier ,which is a risk, you then take that to someone who has a weaker immunity and they die .

Wasn't there a political fuss the other day about thoughtless Cummings, and we also know some BAME are more at risk than others ??

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Surprisingly the vast majority of people in this country are not black

The fact that 24 black men have died in police custody is disproportionately high

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13 black men actually. Read Llandafs link then come back. In the last 10 years there’s more chance of an arrested white person dying in custody.

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

Not that I agree with them but can you imagine if the Brexiteers marched for the cause they believe in?

There would be ructions, mainly from those that have marched today.

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I know this place would be having a meltdown, thats for sure

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Originally Posted by life on mars

You might protest which us fine, you may come in contact with a carrier ,which is a risk you then take that to someone who has a weaker immunity and they die .

Wasn't there a political fuss the other day about thoughtless Cummings, and we also know some BAME are more at risk than others ??

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He didn’t protest he’d rather pontificate from the safety of his bedroom

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

He didn’t protest he’d rather pontificate from the safety of his bedroom

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I pontificated once in my bedroom , my mam made me change the sheets 😀

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Originally Posted by Llandaff Blue

Any sources for the disproportionate claims?

Yes, black people have been killed by police in this country, but that isn't what these protests are about because it isn't an issue here. I've linked the police deaths so you can look through and pick out ones that were unlawful, you'll note that the worst cases were decades back (and not all related to race).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...United_Kingdom

Trying to conflate US police issues with our issues is insulting and undermines the movement in the US.

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Loads of evidence of black deaths in police custody , particularly those with mental illness held under section 136

Google it

The justice system says that the deaths were lawful but we know how the justice system treats black people in this country

Just look at the case of the cardiff three

I think its brilliant that people of all colours are protesting in british cities

The problem of oppression is happening all over the world

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

He didn’t protest he’d rather pontificate from the safety of his bedroom

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If I attended, you would criticise me, but because I didn’t, you are doing so again 🙄

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Loads of evidence of black deaths in police custody , particularly those with mental illness held under section 136

Google it

The justice system says that the deaths were lawful but we know how the justice system treats black people in this country

Just look at the case of the cardiff three

I think its brilliant that people of all colours are protesting in british cities

The problem of oppression is happening all over the world

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How long ago was the Cardiff 3?

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Originally Posted by Llandaff Blue

Any sources for the disproportionate claims?

Yes, black people have been killed by police in this country, but that isn't what these protests are about because it isn't an issue here. I've linked the police deaths so you can look through and pick out ones that were unlawful, you'll note that the worst cases were decades back (and not all related to race).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...United_Kingdom

Trying to conflate US police issues with our issues is insulting and undermines the movement in the US.

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In fairness while it’s no where near as bad in this country I think you were more likely to be stopped and searched it you weren’t white.

But I agree trying to put ours on the levels of the US definitely undermines it.

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

Not that I agree with them but can you imagine if the Brexiteers marched for the cause they believe in?

There would be ructions, mainly from those that have marched today.

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Why would the pro brexit lot protest today ? They already have their way

Feelings are running high about an outrage that is happening NOW

In cardiff today people of all colours observed social distancing and were peaceful

Who the feck is pritti patel ? One of her governments chief advisers broke the lockdown , a black man has been murdered and people are pissed off , if cummings can ponce about all over the country then people can protest in cardiff

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Loads of evidence of black deaths in police custody , particularly those with mental illness held under section 136

Google it

The justice system says that the deaths were lawful but we know how the justice system treats black people in this country

Just look at the case of the cardiff three

I think its brilliant that people of all colours are protesting in british cities

The problem of oppression is happening all over the world

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I've provided a link above, as JR said read it.

I'm not googling anything, if you make claims then you are the one who needs to back them up as I have done in this thread.

Well you can just look at the reasoning for the deaths, which is written out nicely for you and the ones you think were wrong you can point out to me. Note how the vast majority are terrorism or weapon related. This is not the US, we have our own issues with racism for sure, but it isn't the same and never will be the same as what's going on in America.

I know about the Cardiff 3, the fact it was decades ago (like I said) doesn't strengthen your point at all.

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

How long ago was the Cardiff 3?

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I copper working with south wales police once said that to me as if it was a defence and of course it wouldnt happen today

If you want to believe that then feel free

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Originally Posted by blue matt

A time and a place, you have seen that the current situation with Covid19 means this is not the time

but i know people will say " strike while the iron is hot " is the reason, but the responsible action is to wait

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It is a sticky one tbh. But action can be done, via virtual protests, writing to your local MP, signing petitions and keeping informed of the dynamics of the world and the context behind said dynamics

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Why would the pro brexit lot protest today ? They already have their way

Feelings are running high about an outrage that is happening NOW

In cardiff today people of all colours observed social distancing and were peaceful

Who the feck is pritti patel ? One of her governments chief advisers broke the lockdown , a black man has been murdered and people are pissed off , if cummings can ponce about all over the country then people can protest in cardiff

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In Cardiff they may have observed social distance as numbers were controllable. In Manchester, where the rate of infection is already well above 1, and London it was mayhem.

1 man broke the rules and people have been screaming about it for weeks. Tens of thousands have broken the rules, a large proportion who were no doubt screaming about that 1 man and you think that’s great.

Let’s hope none of your friends or family die as a result or perhaps you can tell them on their death beds it’s for a good cause.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

I copper working with south wales police once said that to me as if it was a defence and of course it wouldnt happen today

If you want to believe that then feel free

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How long ago was it please?

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

In Cardiff they may have observed social distance as numbers were controllable. In Manchester, where the rate of infection is already well above 1, and London it was mayhem.

1 man broke the rules and people have been screaming about it for weeks. Tens of thousands have broken the rules, a large proportion who were no doubt screaming about that 1 man and you think that’s great.

Let’s hope none of your friends or family die as a result or perhaps you can tell them on their death beds it’s for a good cause.

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Sojev Labour MPs and its fans praise the demonstrators, one man goes to Durham, the world ends , hypocrisy at it's best.

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Originally Posted by adz-a32

If I attended, you would criticise me, but because I didn’t, you are doing so again 🙄

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I’d have more respect for you if you were protesting. At least Delmbox got off his arse and practiced what he preaches.

I criticise you because you have been shouting loudest about the protests, championing them, yet refuse to concede the danger they possess in the current climate.

Then in the next breath you admit you haven’t protested personally for Covid reasons.

Virtue signalling at its finest.

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Originally Posted by Llandaff Blue

I've provided a link above, as JR said read it.

I'm not googling anything, if you make claims then you are the one who needs to back them up as I have done in this thread.

Well you can just look at the reasoning for the deaths, which is written out nicely for you and the ones you think were wrong you can point out to me. Note how the vast majority are terrorism or weapon related. This is not the US, we have our own issues with racism for sure, but it isn't the same and never will be the same as what's going on in America.

I know about the Cardiff 3, the fact it was decades ago (like I said) doesn't strengthen your point at all.

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You are a white bloke , as am I and the vast majority of us , despite cardiff being a very multi racial city

Cardiff has , as a city , a history of denying that it has a problem with racism

It most certainly does

Just because the framing of the cardiff 3 was several decades ago doesnt mean it wouldnt or couldn't happen again

This is an issue of race , the spark was the murder of this black guy in america but if you are saying we dont have a problem in this country you are doing it from a white perspective

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Sojev Labour MPs and its fans praise the demonstrators, one man goes to Durham, the world ends , hypocrisy at it's best.

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Its laughable

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Originally Posted by Llandaff Blue

Bringing awareness to what exactly? That when you actually break down that number it isn't very significant?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52890363

The case of Belly Mujinga is tragic, but I am baffled as to why you think it's a racism one. The anger should be at her employer for allowing her to work despite her underlying conditions. When the spitter was tested for antibodies, it came back negative (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-52853859), so again, the anger should be at her worker for allowing her to remain in a customer facing role. Strangely that case works against your justification for protests because there will likely be more people out there who will get this virus and die directly because of these protests.

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Cheers for sending the BBC article. It seems really detailed and reading the figures that you suggested seems interesting. Same with the Lammy Review section.

The case of Belly Mujinga has got a CPS review underway. I guess the discussion around her death is about equity and I agree that it is wrong of her boss to allow her to work in such a role, especially considering her pre-existing conditions

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

I’d have more respect for you if you were protesting. At least Delmbox got off his arse and practiced what he preaches.

I criticise you because you have been shouting loudest about the protests, championing them, yet refuse to concede the danger they possess in the current climate.

Then in the next breath you admit you haven’t protested personally for Covid reasons.

Virtue signalling at its finest.

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You don't know about my life or my political activity, past or present, so don't comment

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Originally Posted by adz-a32

Cheers for sending the BBC article. It seems really detailed and reading the figures that you suggested seems interesting. Same with the Lammy Review section.

The case of Belly Mujinga has got a CPS review underway. I guess the discussion around her death is about equity and I agree that it is wrong of her boss to allow her to work in such a role, especially considering her pre-existing conditions

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Perhaps her boss was white and they can still pin the race card on him

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

In fairness while it’s no where near as bad in this country I think you were more likely to be stopped and searched it you weren’t white.

But I agree trying to put ours on the levels of the US definitely undermines it.

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I think it's something crazy like 9x more likely to be searched if you're black, I don't know how effective it has been but the idea of racial profiling never sat with me. Feels like it would cause more distrust with the police rather than tackling the issues. Glasgow had a bad problem with knives back in the mid 2000s and their approach was centered around the issues which led to knife crime rather than just taking it off them and locking them up. It worked well there

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Sojev Labour MPs and its fans praise the demonstrators, one man goes to Durham, the world ends , hypocrisy at it's best.

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:hehe: You're funny. Not in a 'laughing with you' kind of way, unfortunately for you.

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

13 black men actually. Read Llandafs link then come back. In the last 10 years there’s more chance of an arrested white person dying in custody.

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I have , we live in a predominantly white country

Most people arrested in this country are white

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Originally Posted by adz-a32

You don't know about my life or my political activity, past or present, so don't comment

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I don’t want to know, you’re not that significant.

However, what I do know is you’ve been run thumping the protest drum yet you don’t show up to protest yourself.

Laughable.