The vaccine being manufactured in India is for the Asian market. In Uk the product is manufactured in Oxford and is filled from bulk into amps/ vials/ syringes by Wockhart in WrexhamQuote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
Printable View
The vaccine being manufactured in India is for the Asian market. In Uk the product is manufactured in Oxford and is filled from bulk into amps/ vials/ syringes by Wockhart in WrexhamQuote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
Vial accusations perhaps.Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
Ah.Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
Which is basically what I said. Why do you feel the need to antagonise people who are on your side?Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
Sorry if I upset you, certainly wasn’t intentional. All I did was add my bit to the ongoing debate
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/01/h...0LpIZmoKsUXHL0
In an act of sheer desperation and, I hope, not stupidity, the UK Government has said the vaccines are interchangeable. In other words, if your first does is Pfizer, it is ok to have a second does that is Oxford.
This has not been tested. There is no data that shows this is effective, and there is no data to show it is a safe method.
Well thank f**k we live in WalesQuote:
Originally Posted by Allez Allez Allez
Don’t like the sound of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allez Allez Allez
According to a You Tube source (Big Jet TV) the government commissioned "Titan" to transport the Astra Zeneca/Oxford vaccine from a manufacturing plant in Holland to the UK. A large plane load of the vaccine arrived at Heathrow about an hour ago so things are moving.
The source sounded reliable but as ever take this information with a pinch of salt.
I don't like the sound of this mix and match strategy. However, for most of us that arrangement would not work as the Pfizer vaccine needs to be stored at low temperatures meaning Doctor's surgeries haven't the facilities to store it. In fact there are so few places with such facilities that in my area there is only one place with the requisite refrigeration and that is about 50 miles from my home so the chances of me getting the mixed jab treatment are very small. I guess the same applies in most areas and only those having their initial treatments at major hospitals are in danger of getting the two vaccines as one course of treatment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allez Allez Allez
They are also less than complimentary about the single dose strategy with one of the negative effects being that such a long gap means some people will simply forget, or not bother, with the second dose 3 months later.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
In Wales you will be guaranteed a matching vaccine. I think most people in England will get a matching vaccine too, but in some situations medics will be advised to mix if the first vaccine is unavailable, or the person getting vaccinated is vulnerable.Quote:
Originally Posted by delmbox
Yeah that's what I meant - it says "An official in Wales said that first and second vaccine doses there would be matched"Quote:
Originally Posted by Allez Allez Allez
It's pretty troubling that they're even considering non matching vaccines if there's no data on it at all, even as a last resort
With the new variant and hospitals in trouble, decisions like mixing the vaccines surely only adds to the air of crisis and a country struggling to cope?Quote:
Originally Posted by delmbox
Di9d no one ever take 2 different medicines for an illness?
Seems to me that if you take both and they work in different ways then you are doubling your chances that if one isn't so effective for you then the other one will be.:shrug:
They aren't going to fight each other.
Why does it? It just offering an alternative, bearing in mind there are fewer doses the one vaccine available and if they use the available doses to give first jabs to people and there is any problem with resupply then they can use the other one as the booster. Shirley that is better for vulnerable people than having to wait too long for the second jab?Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Or do you think if you've had one you shouldn't be allowed the other?
If between them they give protection that is all people should care about.
Are the vaccines interchangable ?Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
They clearly must be or the scientists wouldn't sit still for it. They work on different principles so far as I understand but if they both give a level of protection why not have both?Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepster
We may even find that giving one shot of both is actually beneficial.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...covid-vaccinesQuote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
But how come they need to be stored under different conditions if they are so intercangeable.Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
so it says they can both be given, although it is recommended that this should happen only if the first one given is not available, which makes sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
It seems to me that it is another example of the media wanting bad news. When the scientists and Medical bosses said something and the Government did something else they were vilified for not listening to the scientists.
Now the scientist and head medics have said something and the doctors don't agree the scientists are being vilified for telling the doctors something they don't want to hear.
No matter what is said they will go out and find someone who disagrees and then quote them letting people think they speak for all when in reality they only speak for themselves. Like the guy who applied to be a vaccinator and is complaining in the news that the paperwork he was asked to complete was unacceptable. He said he had 3 days a week spare to help with vaccinations but then in the same article said he doesn't have time to complete the paperwork. Shirley they can't both be true. But the BBC didn't bother to point out that anomoly.
I honestly can’t work out if you’re on a wind up or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
What that have I said do you not agree with?Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
I am surprised to learn about the mix and match approach because I don't think the MHRA could have given approval for this based on the data they were given. Shirley this approach is non-licensed?
Mate, there have been NO CLINICAL TRIALS of mixing vaccines. The US Government are advising not to mix the vaccines. No other Government has suggested that the vaccines can be mixed and the UK Government are not suggesting it, but they are not advising against it. My question is, what is that based on other than "a hunch". There is no data to suggest mixing vaccines will be as effective, less effective, more effective or even counter-productive.Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
There are trials taking place that mix the UK vaccine with the Russian one, but that is at Phase One. Just to re-iterate, mixing the Oxford vaccine and the Pfizer one is currently not even at Phase One of trials.
This is what Public Health England say.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gofer Blue
“There is no evidence on the interchangeability of the Covid-19 vaccines although studies are under way.” Considering people were complaining that the Pfizer and Oxford vaccines were both "rushed" (they weren't, there was data available from tens of thousands of patients and compared against a control group), God knows how people will be able to defend this step to anti-vaxxers.
Yes, but usually the doctor points out if you can't take certain medicines while taking others. The reason the doctor knows, it's been tested.Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
It hasn't been tested. Why are other countries not recommending this at present?Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
The article I posted has scientists saying that there is no data to backup the Government's theory. Public Health England themselves say “There is no evidence on the interchangeability of the Covid-19 vaccines although studies are under way.”Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
For what it is worth. I don't think many (if any) will get a mixture of vaccines. I would be happy to be a guinea pig, but I wouldn't be happy seeing an elderly person (or carer of the old person) have to make an on-the-spot decision after a nurse points out that the vaccine in her hand is different from the one she had 12 weeks ago (again, not a lot of data on spacing vaccines 12 weeks apart).
Scientists are not sitting still for it, they will want to see actual data before changing a theory into a recommendation. That's how science works.
Dr Tony Fauci head of infectious diseases USA government has said the UK is wrong to delay 2nd dose of Pfizer vaccine, there is no evidence and they will not be doing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allez Allez Allez
At this point, we don't know if the UK is right or wrong in theory. They are wrong, though, to recommend a different schedule of vaccine roll out that is backed by zero data. As someone else said, this strikes me as an act of sheer brilliance, or a brave cock-up that, at worst, could see us suffer longer with the pandemic than other nations who are slower at vaccinating, but are following the schedules as tested in the clinical trials.Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
Everyday I get more depressed at the way our home governments are handling this crisis. What concerns me about the change of tack with vaccines is that what they are doing is unproven, and this mass vaccination programme, the biggest the UK has ever done is going against the recommended dose regimes of the manufacturers. The experts have defended the action by saying that the data supports a 12 week interval between doses. There is some evidence that it does for the AZ vaccine, although its not what AZ recommend. There is no evidence for the Pfizer vaccine. In clinical trials 52% get a response from first dose, but Pfizer or anyone else doesn't know how long it lasts as the second jab was given at 3 weeks and showed a 95% long lasting response. The Vaccine experts went back to the Pfizer data and said one dose gives a 90% response and they are confident it will last 12 weeks ( but no evidence).Quote:
Originally Posted by Allez Allez Allez
The 90% figure was obtained by extracting from the data all those patients who tested positive or showed symptoms within 10/14 days after the jab as they would not have built up an immunity. In real life what they say is rubbish because there will always be people who will get Covid shortly after having a jab.
50 million people will be vaccinated in UK, we know both vaccines work well when given at recommended dose intervals. Yet we are going to do it on a wing and a prayer with an unproven dose regime. Lord help us
I don't recall saying there were any trials. Read what I actually said and don't put your own interpretation on it to suit your own agruments.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allez Allez Allez
AND PLEASE DON'T USE CAPITALS TO SPEAK TO ME, AS I'M SURE YOU ARE AWARE IT IS DEEMED AS SHOUTING ON THE INTERNET AND IS CONSIDERED OFFENSIVE.
I said that in the article ROBW posted it states that both vaccines can be used . It is not recommended but it is not impossible. I also stated that the head Medical people had approved the use of both. That is a fact.
My only other comment was on about the actions of media and news items which is my opinion and you will not change it.
So what is your problem with what I said?
Oh and I'm not your mate!
This is last chance saloon, they have to get this rollout right. Only 1.6 million to do in Wales, surely we could get it done in a month or so? I still can’t believe they are not doing teachers asap, keep banging on how crucial it is schools are open, but dont mention the teachers getting jabs? There’s probably not even that many over 50....
Agree regarding teachers.Quote:
Originally Posted by goats
Yes the nurses, doctors, surgeons, paramedics are doing a fantastic job, but who's looking after their kids?
Key workers shirley :shrug:
As I mentioned in an earlier post above, surely this constitutes an unlicensed use of a medicinal product? Who takes ultimate responsibility for this - normally it would be the physician who prescribes the medicine, but in this case....?Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
Dude, what you said was that it made sense to mix the vaccines. How am I misinterpreting that?Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
Here is the quote just so that you are CLEAR. And Capitals denote emphasis, not only shouting. But, let's not digress.Quote:
although it is recommended that this should happen only if the first one given is not available, which makes sense.
So, what are you basing this on considering there have been NO CLINICAL TRIALS? And, again, to avoid upset I have used capital letters to emphasise the point. I am not shouting.
No other country is advocating the mixing of vaccines. The Head of the US Medical agency says there is no data to back up the UK's approach, and Public Health England also made the statement that there is no evidence at the moment. Are you arguing for the sake of arguing? Is that what you are doing?
There is little doubt to me that, in mixing the vaccines, in elongating the time between vaccines and in doing both without clinical trial and evidence, that the Government will shoulder the responsibility should things go wrong. The worst situation would be that we have a sizeable proportion of the populace vaccinated, but would have to go back to square one should the approach result in a lower efficacy rate for either/both vaccines meaning that a large proportion of the vulnerable are no longer immune as a result of the divergence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gofer Blue
This isn't a political comment, but imagine if we suddenly saw England needed to buy another 100 million doses in 4-6 months because this untrialled approach only provided short term immunity. This looks to be a desperate stab in the dark, and I am now starting to wonder if there are things bubbling under the surface (e.g. higher mortality with the new strain, more mutations, the emergence of a strain that is no longer covered by the vaccine) that is forcing the Government to act
a) unscientifically
b) unilaterally
I didn't say that, I said that the people quoted in the article quoted by TOBW said that they should not be mixed but in the absence of a second dose of the first then the other could be used. That is not me saying it, that is TOBW citing an article that says that. If you needed the second a shot and it was not available then I take it you would not accept the alternative. fine that would be your choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allez Allez Allez
Yes it seems that way to me too. Next time I have a headache, I'm taking the whole box of pills because it's logical that it will make me feel better quicker.Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle