You are ruled by itQuote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
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You are ruled by itQuote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
1. However high they climb they still have no answers to the biggest questions you and I have re Life.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
2. Those that know God have always been in a minority, why would scientists be any different?
3. When one of your 'high priests' of science gets owned by a Christian Scientist, then we would only be fools to ignore it.
Here is the short version of the DEBATE.
Now that the IDF commandos have entered the hospital and searching room by room apparently, then they really now have to come up with clear evidence that Hamas have their command centre under there.
Your opinion is that Dawkins got owned is like your belief in a god .....utterly without evidenceQuote:
Originally Posted by truthpaste
People who are religious are afraid of death , they want to believe in an afterlife , they want comfort
That's understandable but it's folly
Scientists can prove things
Those who believe in God can't prove anything at all
They can debate and philosophise with other religious people and argue their faith is better than someone else's
But they can't provide simple evidence when asked
Show me evidence of God, show me God
Not fields , or the sky or the Bible
I want physical evidence of God . When ordinary people ask this question we are told he can't possibly be everywhere or appear in a gas or speak to people ........but this is what you lot tell us has happened
So get on with it
It's a bit of a he said she said situation IMO, only with awful consequences, who the hell can you believe with all this stuff?, the IDF stuff looks convincing but computer graphics, TV companies previously caught staging events, the editors cut etc. etc. The BBC have spent over a year informing their viewers of the offensive that never was, Snake Island, the ghost of Kiev, the headlines a week ago on opening up my browser I still use edge, was that Putin is dead, maybe he is!!! the world is in a shit place exacerbated by equally shit reporting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gofer Blue
Israel has a decades long history of lying and inventing evidence - from made up audio, and planted weapons, to denials that their snipers killed hundreds of mostly unarmed (some had stones) protestors along the wall/wire.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gofer Blue
Hamas has a history of lying - especially some of the recent ludicrous statements that civilians weren't targeted on 7 October.
I don't believe either side. The propaganda war is at its peak. The arms stashes the IDF have displayed so far look staged. I don't doubt they came from Hamas fighters or arms stores, but there is no reason to believe their claims that they were found where the IDF said they were found.
I am convinced by a number of Palestinian doctors who worked (or still work) in the hospital interviewed on Sky and the BBC who say there is no hidden Hamas command centre and no place where it could be located. They know the building, how the rooms connect, whether or not there is a way down to secret tunnels and all the other claims used to justify the assault. They are clear that it is just a hospital - and if Hamas have been using it as a command centre they could not have done it without staff and patients rubbing shoulders with them.
The IDF report to the media on hamas uniforms and guns being found under a hospital looked completely fake
There clearly is tunnelling and the use of human shields by hamas but the first casualty of war is the truth and there is no doubt the Israelis are on the make
I mean Mossad doesn't get to be feared the world over for a bit of counter espionage
That lot have been killing their own who don't fall in line for years !
Sadly this is the world we live in today - fake news is everywhere and so we don't know who to trust anymore. This is one of my great fears for the future in particular the use of AI to generate convincing look-alikes for people, such as presidents or other leading politicians. Like you I find it hard to believe that the medical staff wouldn't know that there are tunnels under the hospital and any access points associated with them. Unless they are too scared to speak up perhaps?Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
I'd have thought that now the IDF are actually inside the hospital it would be relatively simple for just one whistle blower on the staff to describe how to find such an access point without giving away their identity in all the confusion.
Why would so much military focus have been on the hospital otherwise?
Why has so much 'military focus' been on apartment blocks, churches, mosques, UN compounds, 'safe' areas of southern Gaza, convoys of women and children fleeing as demanded by the IDF, other hospitals, power plants, water treatment works, and the rest?Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
There doesn't have to be any extra reason for mass killing, sieges and destruction if your purpose is collective punishment and making a concentration camp uninhabitable (whilst your politicians openly discuss plans for mass expulsions to third countries).
The IDF take a group of journalists (including the BBC) into the hospital complex in a tightly controlled 'reveal' tour and reveal bugger all!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67436154
The BBC reaction is best described as underwhelmed and unconvinced.
Why were the police and right wing media and social media all over that dreadful attack on the poppy seller by pro Palestinian types the other day ?Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
It's because it was a lie 🤥
Even you fell for it
The Israelis will lie if it suits their purpose
An easy target for mass collective punishment maybe?Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
No one is more obsessed with that incident than yourself. I hope you will look into all claims as much inspector Sludge.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
Don't be so disingenuousQuote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
You know very well that several times you mentioned the .....shocking .....attack on this poor old bloke ....and used it to push your support of this hate march nonsense
The daily mail was wrong as it was a complete lie . People may well have been threatened by right wing lumps over the false narrative being thrown around by this
And of course you were wrong too
Yet again your pathetic ego won't allow you to hold your hand up and say yep , that was a mistake
It's easy to do
I don't know why you are unable to do so although it's clearly deep seated within your psyche
When it all boils down you are in a position to admit like everyone else when you have screwed up
I would hope this will be the end of your silly bravado but I doubt it
JamesWhales knows all about the truth behind the headlinesQuote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
Get him on the case
I mentioned dozens of incidents, are you saying they didn't happen? You pick up on one of them. Do you hold yourself to that scrutiny?Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
If you are so bothered about truth in this conflict you would be more interested in the media's apologies about the bombing of the hospital, not an incident in which the police dropped for lack of evidence.
😂Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
You beauty
What a klutz you are
I'm not sure this story is the killer argument you think it isQuote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
As far as your presence on here it isQuote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Okaaaay!Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
So - 36 pages of high level debate and intense scrutiny of the problem by ccmb's finest international peace negotiators aka Sludge and Dorcus and they still havent come up with a solution.
Lads, please, come on - the world is waiting on you both.....:sherlock:
You think some posters on a message board have to come up with solutions to a war on the other side of the world? You will find that’s the job of world leaders. What we can do though is discuss it and and show our disgust at innocent children and babies being blown up by bloody bombs.Quote:
Originally Posted by pipster
The laughable thing is that some people on the last 36 pages seem to act as if they know the solution and if only the rest of the world would listen to what they had to say, then the problem would be fixedQuote:
Originally Posted by ninian opinian
For me, not enough world leaders are calling out both Hamas and the Israeli government for their atrocities - they seem to have to side with one or the other. The mind boggles. And both Sunak and Starmer are a disgrace for not calling for an immediate ceasefire.
Jo Stephens , Cardiff Central MP who abstained from the vote to call for a cease fire has had her offices vandalised and daubed with red paint
I agreeQuote:
Originally Posted by stevo
My MP voted against a ceasefire, but then again, he’s a Tory cnut who is pro-brexit, backed Boris throughout Partygate, an utterly despicable human being, so I wasn’t surprised in the least.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
Abstaining that vote is even worse.
:thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo
I always had Jo Stephens down as left wing and of course its her right to abstain but it surprised meQuote:
Originally Posted by stevo
Maybe she's gunning for a job if starmer wins the election
And that’s the problem. MPs only interested in their own career and not what’s best for the country/world. So, she’s as bad as Braverman in that respect.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
I always had Jo Stephens down as left wing and of course its her right to abstain but it surprised meQuote:
Originally Posted by stevo
Maybe she's gunning for a job if starmer wins the election
Well I certainly wouldn't be impressed if she was my mpQuote:
Originally Posted by stevo
Don't agree with all of this article, but it's very close to my feelings on the whole thing.
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...yahu-ceasefire
It's a good article. I think the hope is - and I think this is true - that Netanyahu is a product of the external very real threat posed by Hamas. Such a threat tends to lead to people wanting strong and uncomplicated leaders that in normal times would appeal much less. It's like if there's a spate of burglaries, protecting your home becomes an almost number one priority when you wouldn't normally think about it.
So the idea has to be that sort Hamas and you sort Netanyahu. The international community has to be hellbent on a two-state solution going forward, perhaps with an international transport 'bridge' between the west bank and Gaza. It sounds complicated but it could work in principle.
Anyone pushing against that, either proposing a greater Israel or a greater Palestine takes us further from peace in my opinion. Both sides can make claims to it, but it takes us further from long term peace IMO.
Out of interest, and I'm not sure how accurate they are at such times, but Netanyahu's party seems to lead in no opinion polls at the moment
https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-8...ct-7-failures/Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
I agree with some of it but its' main thrust is that in Israel it is Netanyahu and his latest far right government are the problem and that Hamas is just a rabid dog organisation of murderers bent on death and paradise.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Netanyahu and his fascist government are certainly a complete barrier to any solution, and Hamas has amongst its 30,000 fighters a large number of men who see no other way than murder and terror.
But this is Freedland doing his usual whitewash job for Zionism and presenting persecution of Palestinians as a recent phenomenon. It is also another opinion piece that ignores the complexity of Hamas. The military wing was proscribed by western governments as a terrorist organisation over 20 years ago. They only decided to add the Hamas health, housing and sewage workers to the list 2-3 years ago - as a political gesture. In the past 7-8 years Hamas modified its charter, made peace offers to Israel and accepted the idea of a 2 state solution - all moves ignored or rejected.
Most of the Hamas leaders living in luxury exile (not all) and many of the fighters are a total obstacle to peace, but most of their ordinary members and supporters will have to be part of a solution. Equally although Netanyahu and his mates are an obstacle to peace and so is the state ideology and many of the 600,000 illegal settlers on the West Bank (and beneficiaries of the recent ethnic cleansing in East Jerusalem), the people of Israel - especially the 80% who are Jewish - must be part of a solution.
None of that will happen if the Jonathan Freedland view that a few recent bad apples on both sides (but mainly the Palestinian side for him) are the only problem. It goes deeper and it goes back much longer.
It is much more the other way around. Hamas is a product of Netanyahu and Israeli leader like him who wanted to create a new force to undermine the PLO/Fatah, who needed an external threat (in addition to Iran!) to give cover to their Greater Israel strategy and military expansion, and who preferred to face Islamists than a secular opposition.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
It's hard to take sides and it's hard not to.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
As a culture, we spend 25% (late September to late December) of every year rearranging our retail space to mark the official time of His *arrival. Do you know of anyone else in history who after 2023 years has this impact on most of the world? Also as a culture, no other name is mentioned as much in conversation, and no, I'm not including those who know who He is. I'm talking about people like you, and the nervous 'please shut the thread down' sort.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
*Granted, the secular masses of most of Europe and beyond mainly can't quite remember why they are celebrating it :sherlock:
This clip with Alf Garnett shows how confused we are, and this was 51 years ago! >>> CLIP
NB: Start at 9m 45s if you are short of time.
Alf mentions the Middle East, and for those who want a heads up on the end game, then the God who has got every other prophecy 100% correct has stated this:-
Future Deliverance for Jerusalem:
This message concerning the fate of Israel came from the Lord: “This message is from the Lord, who stretched out the heavens, laid the foundations of the earth, and formed the human spirit. I will make Jerusalem like an intoxicating drink that makes the nearby nations stagger when they send their armies to besiege Jerusalem and Judah.
On that day I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock.
All the nations will gather against it to try to move it, but they will only hurt themselves.
Zechariah 12:1-3