A long read regarding the pandemic in Manchester/Lancashire which is well written: https://www.manchestereveningnews.co...north-20233278
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A long read regarding the pandemic in Manchester/Lancashire which is well written: https://www.manchestereveningnews.co...north-20233278
Looks like the USA are going to hit the target of offering a vaccine to all adults by July, they are giving a average 2.5 Mill jabs a day now ( they are aiming for 5 Mill per day ) If Trump got anything right, he got the ordering of the vaccines right, got in early, added " america 1st " to contracts, some of the bigger states are mid 20 % now, they will be back to normal life pretty soon
As did Johnson, and at the time of committing the recourse and millions early on there were no guarentees they would find a vaccine or roll it out this quick, he's certainly upset the vaccine and there dreadful organisation to the vaccine programme .Quote:
Originally Posted by blue matt
Indeed, Boris has shown the EU that it didnt pay to dither on getting the orders in, the early bird and all that :thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
All about greed and capitalism according to the sainted Johnson. I wonder how many of his apologists on here will have the nerve to read
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Failures-St...ct_top?ie=UTF8
and whether it will change any minds?
You got your jab didn’t you Bob? No doubt many friends your age did too? I’m glad Boris got one thing right and ordered early. Surely it’s illegal for the EU to try and block a further delivery here, it’s not our fault they didn’t back it and order early.....a contract is a contractQuote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Bloody capitalism eh?:hehe:Quote:
Originally Posted by blue matt
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue matt
At least part of the story is not about the early bird catching the worm. A global problem is on it's way to being solved in some countries via protectionism and America acting in bad faith.Quote:
UK was smart to start funding vax research before #Covid19 even hit Europe. But they made a consequential choice by (apparently) making funding conditional to Brits getting doses of any resulting vaccine 1st. Germany
funded BioNTech but did not include any Europe 1st clause.
Meanwhile in March 2020, President Trump tried unsuccessfully to steal BioNTech from Germany to bring it to the US. Despite this warning, apparently nobody in EU thought it might be a bad idea for BioNTech to be partnered with Pfizer, an American company.
That Germany nationality-agnostic approach to pharma partners was not the approach used across the channel in UK. Oxford was originally going to partner with American company Merck. But the UK gov overruled it and made them partner with UK-based AstraZeneca.
With BioNTech-Pfizer partnership secure, Trump seemed to be in no hurry to sign Pfizer purchase contracts. Why? He knew a US vaccine export ban would make a contract unnecessary.
Pfizer has massive production capacity in the US. If US law prevented any of those doses made on US soil from being exported, they would have to go to the US in any event. The result can be seen in the supply chain. United States plants used to supply United States, European Union plants used to supply europe-africa.
Also in December 2020, the UK & US used the emergency use authorisation method to approve Pfizer, while the EU used the more cautious conditional marketing approval method, resulting in EU approving 2-3 weeks later. UK gave emergency use approval to AstraZeneca on 30 December.
When European Union gave conditional marketing approval to AstraZeneca on 29 Jan, the company informed EU it would not be meeting original dosage delivery promise because of production problems in EU plant. Seems doses to be reserved for European Union had gone to United Kingdom The battle between EU & AZ began
The Commission said AZ signed a contract saying it would use all 4 of its production facilities, 2 in UK and 2 in EU, to deliver to EU - so the shortfall should be made up with exports from the UK. AZ's CEO said they couldn't because of a 'UK 1st' clause.
That battle has raged on without resolution. AZ will only deliver 30m out of promised 80m for Q1 and 70m of promised 180m in Q2, EC says. Meanwhile EU has exported 10m (mostly Pfizer) doses to UK, while 'UK 1st' clause stops AZ from meeting EU delivery promise from UK plants.
Across the pond, the US export ban has meant Canada, Mexico& Japan have to get their Pfizer doses from EU plants instead. (European Union has exported 4.6m doses to Canada, 3.8m to Mexico, 4m to Japan) Situation particularly absurd for Flag of Canada, which must get its Pfizer from Belgium instead of next door in Michigan.
Even US has received vaccine exports from EU: 1 million in February, and 3.9 million doses of Johnson & Johnson a few weeks ago according to the NYT. J&J doses made in US can't go to EU.
These export numbers were revealed last week and Europeans were furious. In was in this context President Von Der Leyen said on Wednesday the EU is considering an export ban to vaccine-producing countries who don't reciprocate. Germany, France and Italy are pushing this idea.
EU assumed good behavior. US & UK manoeuvred to benefit themselves. Many EU countries flubbed vaccine rollouts. EU negotiations & approval maybe took too long. But what's striking is, for many in US & UK there seems to be 1 set of rules for them and another for everyone else.
https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/stat...97635577761803
The Pharmaceutical Industry is a global success story for capitalism. Drug manufacture is complex and depends on many industries pulling together..manufacturers of pharmaceutical quality glass, pharmaceutical quantity rubber stoppers and seals, excipient manufacturers etc. Once politicians interfere the thing can fall apart.Quote:
Originally Posted by surge
Dave Keating is right in many of his comments but he brushes over some important facts:
The UK signed a contract with AZ in English Law based on supply of fixed quantities of product. The EU contract was in Belgium Law and based on best efforts of each party. Second the EU wanted product manufactured within the block if facilities existed.
It's all come back to haunt them and they seem willing to disrupt legitimate supply to other countries in order to get supply. A sad tale for everyone
I am shocked at there behaviour though the holding back of the vaccine shipment in Italy on what moral ground can they do that ,this saves life's, this is both embarrassing and revealing of their nasty controlling side , the fact they were advising folk not to rush and take the Astazenca Vaccine over a certain age and now complain they cant get enough of it all a smokescreen to cloud the fact the fecked up , Merkel is in big trouble with all this as well .Quote:
Originally Posted by blue matt
Think I read somewhere that Labour were keen to break the big pharma global control upQuote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
haven't there been something like twice as many deaths per capita here than in Germany?Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
yet some people seem to think Merkel is in trouble (how many times have we heard that over the years?) and Boris Johnson is doing a fantastic job?
If its such a failure why is have so many countries included ours included have had their made better, I can remember a time of awful personal hardships and have found that through the years it got better , I look at my children now and think gosh this is a better world ( I agree its far from perfect ) what would you have in its place .Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Before capitalism the world was a very poor , war mongering death ridden place, many society's and lives have benefited from it In my humble view does it need reigning in ( yes ) .
The most successful Labour party in my time ( Blair )embraced it , perhaps Labour needs to do the same and create a new visionary shape it in its own to see if that appeals to the electorate as the last shout was abysmal.
I can't see old Joe Biden or China sweeping capitalism away anytime soon either .
I'm not sure that would be within the gift of a future Labour government - not unless you believe extreme globalist conspiracy theories. You don't do you?Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
Labour has certainly got a bag of potential policies for Big Pharma in the UK - although the main focus seems to be maintaining quality and price protection, and regulation, for the NHS through any UK-US trade deal.
Most of the international press provides free PR for Big Pharma - aided by a few loss leader decisions around 'at cost' Covid 19 vaccinations for developing countries. But Big Pharma is still all about profiting from public sector research, outrageous prices for prescription drugs (especially in the USA, but across the world), and promoting opioid addiction!
I don't think the book is a critique on capitalism more the response to the pandemic.Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
on capitalism, I heard an Economist on BBC world service the order day (I forget her name) saying some interesting things about capitalisms role in the biggest issues facing the world.
most notably the rapidly increasing inequality in many countries around the world that is almost always followed by unrest.
her solution was to try to get capitalism to work better for us, which surely most people can't disagree too much with?
In Germany before it was unified...In the west if short of bread they'd bake another loaf. In the East they'd cut the loaf into thinner slicesQuote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
Is anyone saying they want to get to a situation like the former Eastern Germany?Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
You always see this kind of reductio ad absurdum made against anyone suggesting there might be any sort of weakness with unfettered capitalism.
Why not the other way around?
oh you don't like state interference - that means you don't want any state at all - a lawless anarchy like areas of Somalia controlled by pirates.
What are you talking about? I post a link to a book called “Failures of State, the inside story of Britain’s Battle with Coronavirus” while also mentioning that Johnson had remarked on the connection between the vaccine, greed and capitalism and you go off on one defending capitalism while finding a way to bring the Labour Party into it, again, - all this in a thread titled “Coronavirus update” ! Are you sure you replied to the right thread?Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
Fancy Bringing politics into the " Coronavirus update " thread :hehe:Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Just to give you some data on the price of prescription medicines, the UK has some of the lowest prices in the world... a few examples of commonly used prescription medicines: Atorvastatin 28 tabs £1.00, Amlodipine 28 tabs £1.00, Ramipril 28 caps £1.15. Big Pharma does not necessarily mean big pricesQuote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
I was just at a loss as to how to understand how he arrived where he did from what I had posted - not for the first time, I was baffled by what he said.Quote:
Originally Posted by blue matt
West Germany v East (as was) is a good example of successful capitalism compared to extreme socialism.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjk
well done for missing my point entirelyQuote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
That did make me smile.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
You of course have never made any remark even remotely political in the 7400+ posts in this thread have you? No, of course not! I didn't think so. hehe:
Can you blame them ??
Its reported that after enduring months of baseless criticism and browbeating from the EU, AstraZeneca now reportedly regret selling their vaccine at cost price as a result of the reputational damage inflicted by European leaders, and wouldn’t replicate the strategy if another pandemic hits.
Speaking on the Today Programme, BBC medical editor Fergus Walsh claimed that multiple senior sources inside AstraZeneca said that in future, the company was unlikely to forego the profits enjoyed by the likes of Pfizer (set to make billions from its $19.50 jab, compared to the $4 tag for AstraZeneca’s) now that the European Commission has smeared the vaccine with claims of blood clotting and low efficacy. Not to mention threatening export controls, and blaming AstraZeneca for their shortfall in vaccine
I followed up on the obvious Johnson reference , the book about capitalism which was referred too its all political in every shape and form and a dig .Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
This might help others :
Failures of State: The Inside Story of Britain’s Battle with Coronavirus recounts the extraordinary political decisions taken at the heart of Boris Johnson’s government during the global pandemic.
I get the feeling folk would have loved Boris Vaccine gamble to have failed
I don't think anyone is hoping that the vaccine gamble had failed, as there would have been a few thousand more deaths by now.Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
I do think that the UK government response is already a failure though, and the vaccines have gone well but that still isn't going to make us close to any of the countries who have handled it well
Why,? It’s Johnson who linked the vaccine with capitalism and greed, not me, I was just repeating what I thought was a bizarre comment by the Prime Minister. However, that was enough for a completely wrong deduction to be made that a book about Coronavirus was actually about capitalism- I’ve almost finished it now and while the lives v money decisions are analysed, there’s absolutely no reference to economic theory as you Johnson apologists would realise if you read it.Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
Second, my only mention of the Labour Party was in bafflement as to how he managed to bring them into things! I’ve never denied I post about politics, but, agree with them or not, I like to think that what I post is coherent - I genuinely don’t get what LOM is trying to say and wondered if he had meant to post in that thread on the Labour Party.
I
So the use of the word “political” was what convinced you that the book was about capitalism :facepalm::facepalm:.Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
By the way, I see the post I made on the book a few days ago where I pointed out that the two writers work for the Sunday Times, hardly a left wing publication, and also quoted some comments by David Davis, who last time I looked was a Conservative MP, that were very critical of Government policy over Covid, but, funnily enough, none of you apologists bothered to comment on that.
An eye opener for everyone.....Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
You switching sides now are you Bob? :hehe:Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
No wonder he's getting Tory adverts on his view of this website :hehe:Quote:
Originally Posted by goats
Might not be as positive as "Open all the clubs! Let's all get syphilis!" but seems realistic and, I think, likely to be acceptable to most.Quote:
The three restrictions Mark Drakeford says will still be in place at the end of this year if everything goes well: https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/p...-says-20239664
If coronavirus figures continue to fall, people in Wales could be limited to just three restrictions by the end of the year, the First Minister has said.
He had already warned that some restrictions will remain throughout 2021 and has repeatedly expressed his concern that another wave of coronavirus is already "baked in" and cannot be avoided.
The First Minister told Conservative group leader Andrew RT Davies that the best hope for the year was that only "simple restrictions" were left in place at the end of the year.
He said: "If things go well, then by the end of this year we may be living with the simple restrictions, the social distancing, the hand washing, the mask wearing in crowded places, the things we have become very used to doing to keep one another safe.
"But we simply cannot, I think, say to people with certainty we would like that all the risks of coronavirus are already passed. There may be more twists and turns in the story yet".
They’re targeting me as a floating voter who takes a huge interest in Doncaster politics :hehe:Quote:
Originally Posted by surge
You’ve been vaccinated haven’t you? Isn’t everyone now pre programmed to vote Tory whose had the jab, bit strange that, I wonder what they really put in that vaccine...:hehe:Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
:hehe:Quote:
Originally Posted by goats
Knew you were a sleeping Tory at heart , never thought you'd quote a raging right winger though in David Davis , you'll be voting to leave non vaccinated Europe next :hehe:Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
He could have been a bit braver than other nations and open hospitality before they go broke and unemployment is out of control in walesQuote:
Originally Posted by surge
We are on our knees' Restaurant's owners lay out the huge problems the industry faces and beg for a roadmap
"We have exhausted our reserves. Our staff need to work, and our customers need to see our doors open once again"
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/whats-...s-lay-20255463
He's been called many names but one thing our First Minister is not is a strategist. Heads of Governments should not be waiting until 5pm tonight to hold a meeting to decide whether Wales Tourism is 'Go or No' starting Saturday.Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
He said he wanted the latest data before deciding but he should not be micromanaging at this level.
Meanwhile, one of Wales biggest industries is left in the dark until the very last minute.
I honestly don't have an opinion one side or the other, it was just that you apparently calling somebody out for daring to make a political comment in this thread genuinely amused me. I actually laughed reading it. :hehe:Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson