40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

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Originally Posted by truthpaste

As a culture, we spend 25% (late September to late December) of every year rearranging our retail space to mark the official time of His *arrival. Do you know of anyone else in history who after 2023 years has this impact on most of the world? Also as a culture, no other name is mentioned as much in conversation, and no, I'm not including those who know who He is. I'm talking about people like you, and the nervous 'please shut the thread down' sort.

*Granted, the secular masses of most of Europe and beyond mainly can't quite remember why they are celebrating it :sherlock:

This clip with Alf Garnett shows how confused we are, and this was 51 years ago! >>> CLIP
NB: Start at 9m 45s if you are short of time.

Alf mentions the Middle East, and for those who want a heads up on the end game, then the God who has got every other prophecy 100% correct has stated this:-

Future Deliverance for Jerusalem:

This message concerning the fate of Israel came from the Lord: “This message is from the Lord, who stretched out the heavens, laid the foundations of the earth, and formed the human spirit. I will make Jerusalem like an intoxicating drink that makes the nearby nations stagger when they send their armies to besiege Jerusalem and Judah.
On that day I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock.
All the nations will gather against it to try to move it, but they will only hurt themselves.
Zechariah 12:1-3

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This is not again any evidence at all of his existence , you have quoted words from a book , that's nothing , oh Jesus said this etc .....no evidence , might as well quote Janet and John

We as idiotic humans spend millions on being scared of imaginary ghosts and monsters .....Halloween......absolutely no evidence for them either but we spend money ......doesn't mean they exist

The extension of what was originally a pagan festival into ten days of stupidity is as much to do with capitalist marketing as it is to do with any evidence of God

You celebrate God because you are from western Europe

If you were from aborigine Australia or the deepest jungles of South America......where thankfully the rampant Christian missionaries didn't get to .....you would be relying on something else

It's simply an accident of birth and the power of brainwashing that makes you believe in something that doesn't exist

If you were a native red Indian in Canada you would worship the sun or the rain

At least they respect the land which is more than can be said for a lot of your western Christians

Isreal ned to finish the job now and not ceasefire or pull way they hated anyway so its win win .


Next steps :
Defeat Hamas
Let folk in Gaz and Palestinians hold free form fear democratic elections not one run by proxy countries and terrorists .
Gaza and the new state run by UN not any arabic state ,

And Hamas who actually murder their own week in and week out if they defy them ( see below ,Corby you watching ) have theri funds frozen in their cosy Turkish accounts .

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/ne...2014-conflict/

The solution to peace likes with the Palestinians wanting to talk peace they had a chance with Clinton's not perfect deal buy hey it GAVE MORE THAN THEY HAVE NOW .

This is a lot like Ukraine who gave in and surrounded their nuclear capability , Israel have done the same with withdrawing from Gaza for what benefit you may ask .

The west and its donations are quietly funding death ,weapon purchase , tunnel building as Hamas annual billion turnover proves

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

This is not again any evidence at all of his existence , you have quoted words from a book , that's nothing , oh Jesus said this etc .....no evidence , might as well quote Janet and John

We as idiotic humans spend millions on being scared of imaginary ghosts and monsters .....Halloween......absolutely no evidence for them either but we spend money ......doesn't mean they exist

The extension of what was originally a pagan festival into ten days of stupidity is as much to do with capitalist marketing as it is to do with any evidence of God

You celebrate God because you are from western Europe

If you were from aborigine Australia or the deepest jungles of South America......where thankfully the rampant Christian missionaries didn't get to .....you would be relying on something else

It's simply an accident of birth and the power of brainwashing that makes you believe in something that doesn't exist

If you were a native red Indian in Canada you would worship the sun or the rain

At least they respect the land which is more than can be said for a lot of your western Christians

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There's no shortage of evidence for anyone who takes the trouble to look.
Even the BBC don't deny the history of Christ and His extraordinary influence on the people of that generation and beyond.
Australia, NZ, Africa, South & North America and Asia are not Western Europe, but there are billions of people who currently serve Christ as Lord and God across those areas of the World.
Your choice of remaining in denial is a common one in the UK, but please don't suggest that because it's the choice of the majority, it's a choice that can be defended or debated successfully!
If it could then people like you and the Genie wouldn't be left with empty insults to aim at Christians or cartoon images of an old man with a grey beard :shrug:

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Isreal ned to finish the job now and not ceasefire or pull way they hated anyway so its win win .


Next steps :
Defeat Hamas
Let folk in Gaz and Palestinians hold free form fear democratic elections not one run by proxy countries and terrorists .
Gaza and the new state run by UN not any arabic state ,

And Hamas who actually murder their own week in and week out if they defy them ( see below ,Corby you watching ) have theri funds frozen in their cosy Turkish accounts .

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/ne...2014-conflict/

The solution to peace likes with the Palestinians wanting to talk peace they had a chance with Clinton's not perfect deal buy hey it GAVE MORE THAN THEY HAVE NOW .

This is a lot like Ukraine who gave in and surrounded their nuclear capability , Israel have done the same with withdrawing from Gaza for what benefit you may ask .

The west and its donations are quietly funding death ,weapon purchase , tunnel building as Hamas annual billion turnover proves

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Next steps :
Defeat Hamas
Let folk in Gaz and Palestinians hold free form fear democratic elections not one run by proxy countries and terrorists.
Gaza and the new state run by UN not any arabic state.

I completely agree. Let's hope they have the wisdom to do so.

Not read the whole Fred, it appears to be the usual suspects saying the same thing time and time again so don't know if any one has brought this up but i did listen to what i thought a decent podcast on the subject this morning, The chap an attorney, who was trying to convince his listeners and it's not the 1st time I've heard this, it's a genocide for a land grab and the trillions of federal reserve notes in oil that sits beneath the land, coupled with a larger Suez canal that is to be built, when you think that wars have been started for oil previously, it doesn't seem too big a conspiracy theory.

Life On Mars and Truthpaste in complete agreement? What an alt right match made in fantasy 'heaven'!

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Originally Posted by jon1959

Life On Mars and Truthpaste in complete agreement? What an alt right match made in fantasy 'heaven'!

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It's so easy to throw the baby out with the bath water just because you may generally hold different views to people.
We all need to realise that everyone - even those that may hate us for what we stand for - can have certain views that we agree with; and when we do we should say so.

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Originally Posted by truthpaste

There's no shortage of evidence for anyone who takes the trouble to look.
Even the BBC don't deny the history of Christ and His extraordinary influence on the people of that generation and beyond.
Australia, NZ, Africa, South & North America and Asia are not Western Europe, but there are billions of people who currently serve Christ as Lord and God across those areas of the World.
Your choice of remaining in denial is a common one in the UK, but please don't suggest that because it's the choice of the majority, it's a choice that can be defended or debated successfully!
If it could then people like you and the Genie wouldn't be left with empty insults to aim at Christians or cartoon images of an old man with a grey beard :shrug:

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The reason why parts of Asia, Africa, Australia, New Zealand and whole swathes of Latin America are raving mad Christians.......is obvious

Us whites went over there , raped and pillaged and gave out loads of bibles to vulnerable people and set up churches

It's called colonialism

I mean do you think these people chose all this daft nonsense?

The brainwashing of the poor and weak is how religion thrives

The lost tribes of the amazon have survived precisely because they have been kept away from all the god nonsense

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Originally Posted by truthpaste

It's so easy to throw the baby out with the bath water just because you may generally hold different views to people.
We all need to realise that everyone - even those that may hate us for what we stand for - can have certain views that we agree with; and when we do we should say so.

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So in other words another right wing Christian

Blimey what a surprise

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Originally Posted by truthpaste

There's no shortage of evidence for anyone who takes the trouble to look.
Even the BBC don't deny the history of Christ and His extraordinary influence on the people of that generation and beyond.
Australia, NZ, Africa, South & North America and Asia are not Western Europe, but there are billions of people who currently serve Christ as Lord and God across those areas of the World.
Your choice of remaining in denial is a common one in the UK, but please don't suggest that because it's the choice of the majority, it's a choice that can be defended or debated successfully!
If it could then people like you and the Genie wouldn't be left with empty insults to aim at Christians or cartoon images of an old man with a grey beard :shrug:

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Remaining in denial or as most sane people would call it .....living in reality

Being ruled in thought and deed by a dusty old book is on the wane

Christianity , Islam , Pentecostal Sheffield Wednesday ......its all utter nonsense

And whilst land grab is the main reason for the troubles in the middle east its your lots god or version of God or Allah that's a very close number two

When I pass a church on a Sunday morning or see Muslims outside a mosque or Jewish people going to the synagogue I don't abuse them or hurl insults

But I think what an utter comedy this all is and to see kids being dragged along ?

It's all a cult of stupidity and they are all arguing like ferrets in a sack all these years later

Absolute cobblers the lot of it

Sludge / Truthpaste,

Why do you waste time trying to change each other’s position on faith? I assume you are both aware of cognitive dissonance and confirmation basis? Wasting your time.

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Isreal ned to finish the job now and not ceasefire or pull way they hated anyway so its win win .


Next steps :
Defeat Hamas
Let folk in Gaz and Palestinians hold free form fear democratic elections not one run by proxy countries and terrorists .
Gaza and the new state run by UN not any arabic state ,

And Hamas who actually murder their own week in and week out if they defy them ( see below ,Corby you watching ) have theri funds frozen in their cosy Turkish accounts .

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/ne...2014-conflict/

The solution to peace likes with the Palestinians wanting to talk peace they had a chance with Clinton's not perfect deal buy hey it GAVE MORE THAN THEY HAVE NOW .

This is a lot like Ukraine who gave in and surrounded their nuclear capability , Israel have done the same with withdrawing from Gaza for what benefit you may ask .

The west and its donations are quietly funding death ,weapon purchase , tunnel building as Hamas annual billion turnover proves

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Finish the job even at the expense of hundreds if not thousands of more palestinian civilians? Really?

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

The reason why parts of Asia, Africa, Australia, New Zealand and whole swathes of Latin America are raving mad Christians.......is obvious

Us whites went over there , raped and pillaged and gave out loads of bibles to vulnerable people and set up churches

It's called colonialism

I mean do you think these people chose all this daft nonsense?

The brainwashing of the poor and weak is how religion thrives

The lost tribes of the amazon have survived precisely because they have been kept away from all the god nonsense

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Your swift baseless argument assumes that all such individuals are uneducated and incapable of understanding the alternative position of being an agnostic or an atheist.
That assumption ignores people like John Lennox (seen earlier on this thread) who regularly makes mincemeat out of Richard Dawkins, Peter Atkins, Christopher Hitchens and many other leading agnostics.
Lennox uses science to prove the redundancy of any position that doesn't acknowledge an Almighty God.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by truthpaste

Your swift baseless argument assumes that all such individuals are uneducated and incapable of understanding the alternative position of being an agnostic or an atheist.
That assumption ignores people like John Lennox (seen earlier on this thread) who regularly makes mincemeat out of Richard Dawkins, Peter Atkins, Christopher Hitchens and many other leading agnostics.
Lennox uses science to prove the redundancy of any position that doesn't acknowledge an Almighty God.

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You are a complete dinosaur 🦕

Ask God about them

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9e_1IEiJaE

https://x.com/moufidmostafa/status/1...LhmySD2aRt-GNg

Ehud Barak: "Israel built the bunkers under al-Shifa hospital". :sherlock:

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Originally Posted by stevo

Sludge / Truthpaste,

Why do you waste time trying to change each other’s position on faith? I assume you are both aware of cognitive dissonance and confirmation basis? Wasting your time.

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Thanks for your comment Stevo.
History confirms that even the most rabid of skeptics and/or anti-Christian individuals can occasionally see the light of the Gospel and their lives have been dramatically transformed, and this always based on irrefutable evidence.

The apostle Paul (who originally arranged the death of any Christian he could hunt down), all the way up to recent examples such as Josh McDowell and "Evidence that demands a verdict", and Lee Strobel and the book/ movie "The Case for Christ" which is set in Chicago 40 years ago.

Actually, you might be right. I was brought up as a Christian and took my faith very seriously. And then I saw the light.

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Originally Posted by stevo

Actually, you might be right. I was brought up as a Christian and took my faith very seriously. And then I saw the light.

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What you mean by 'Christianity' I can only imagine, so many use that label. I brought a Christadelphian back from Bristol airport last week, a very interesting experience, and he was very committed to the cause, but it was not NT Christianity.

If you wish to discuss your 'light' experience here or in PM then be my guest, but if you really want to avoid the Biblical definition of following Christ then I'll expect the usual hi and goodbye :thumbup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by truthpaste

Thanks for your comment Stevo.
History confirms that even the most rabid of skeptics and/or anti-Christian individuals can occasionally see the light of the Gospel and their lives have been dramatically transformed, and this always based on irrefutable evidence.

The apostle Paul (who originally arranged the death of any Christian he could hunt down), all the way up to recent examples such as Josh McDowell and "Evidence that demands a verdict", and Lee Strobel and the book/ movie "The Case for Christ" which is set in Chicago 40 years ago.

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You are doing it again ....telling us the story of some bloke called Paul who hanged around with Jesus, 3000 years ago

You have no idea of who he was , if he was a nice bloke and ultimately if he even existed

Scientists don't rely on stories from 3000 years ago, which may or may not be factual to prove the existence of something

Your evidence simply doesn't exist

When someone says to me ....oh yes but Paul or Jesus or God etc said in The Bible that .........I know its going to be a waste of my time

Isaac Asimov has written books far more thought provoking and inspirational than the holy book but even he admits its all fantasy

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Originally Posted by truthpaste

Thanks for your comment Stevo.
History confirms that even the most rabid of skeptics and/or anti-Christian individuals can occasionally see the light of the Gospel and their lives have been dramatically transformed, and this always based on irrefutable evidence.

The apostle Paul (who originally arranged the death of any Christian he could hunt down), all the way up to recent examples such as Josh McDowell and "Evidence that demands a verdict", and Lee Strobel and the book/ movie "The Case for Christ" which is set in Chicago 40 years ago.

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Rabid non believers ?

That's ironic given religious people through the centuries have killed millions based on the interpretation of a dusty old book and wether THEIR god is the true one and right path

Religious people are the personification of rabid zealots

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Originally Posted by truthpaste

What you mean by 'Christianity' I can only imagine, so many use that label. I brought a Christadelphian back from Bristol airport last week, a very interesting experience, and he was very committed to the cause, but it was not NT Christianity.

If you wish to discuss your 'light' experience here or in PM then be my guest, but if you really want to avoid the Biblical definition of following Christ then I'll expect the usual hi and goodbye :thumbup:

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In my case, Catholic. But this is irrelevant. It doesn't matter what faith you have - the impact that it has on you is no different to that on any other person with faith of any religion. And that's where you take a step back and ask 'why is that?' Why are we as a human race so susceptible to believe there has to be some higher being? And why would he/she/they want us to believe in them purely based on faith?

And on Christianity alone - why all the different denominations? Why can't they agree on everything? They're not doing themselves any favours by having wildly different beliefs. Some of course go as far as believing the Earth is only 4000 years old, there was no such thing as dinosaurs (those fossils? oh the devil put them there - lol) and the whole Adam and Eve thing is true, and the story of Noah's Ark. You get the picture.

My move away from Christianity was not an overnight thing btw. It was gradual over many years - gradually more agnostic until atheism shown through. It was like still holding out on the possibility that the moon might be made of cheese because I had no proof that it wasn't.

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Originally Posted by stevo

In my case, Catholic. But this is irrelevant. It doesn't matter what faith you have - the impact that it has on you is no different to that on any other person with faith of any religion. And that's where you take a step back and ask 'why is that?' Why are we as a human race so susceptible to believe there has to be some higher being? And why would he/she/they want us to believe in them purely based on faith?

And on Christianity alone - why all the different denominations? Why can't they agree on everything? They're not doing themselves any favours by having wildly different beliefs. Some of course go as far as believing the Earth is only 4000 years old, there was no such thing as dinosaurs (those fossils? oh the devil put them there - lol) and the whole Adam and Eve thing is true, and the story of Noah's Ark. You get the picture.

My move away from Christianity was not an overnight thing btw. It was gradual over many years - gradually more agnostic until atheism shown through. It was like still holding out on the possibility that the moon might be made of cheese because I had no proof that it wasn't.

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The reason why humans , in some cases , believe in a higher being is because they are scared of death and nothingness and want to believe there is indeed life after death

I understand that fear and why some humans cling to the idea of God, Christ , Allah , Valhalla , Nirvana etc

But it's absolutely without proof of existence as is the existence of God

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Originally Posted by stevo

In my case, Catholic. But this is irrelevant. It doesn't matter what faith you have - the impact that it has on you is no different to that on any other person with faith of any religion. And that's where you take a step back and ask 'why is that?' Why are we as a human race so susceptible to believe there has to be some higher being? And why would he/she/they want us to believe in them purely based on faith?

And on Christianity alone - why all the different denominations? Why can't they agree on everything? They're not doing themselves any favours by having wildly different beliefs. Some of course go as far as believing the Earth is only 4000 years old, there was no such thing as dinosaurs (those fossils? oh the devil put them there - lol) and the whole Adam and Eve thing is true, and the story of Noah's Ark. You get the picture.

My move away from Christianity was not an overnight thing btw. It was gradual over many years - gradually more agnostic until atheism shown through. It was like still holding out on the possibility that the moon might be made of cheese because I had no proof that it wasn't.

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Ok, why discuss one issue when we could do over ten at the same time! But seriously, thanks for raising points that most readers currently have bubbling under their hats.

Given that Hamas and Israel have different ideas on a greater being, I'm happy to discuss that question here, and I'm also happy to address your other points as a separate discussion as they are all really important questions and deserve a reasonable answer :thumbup:

Why are we as a human race so susceptible to believe there has to be some higher being?

Why don't we explore the alternative, that there is no God, no Creator, nobody *we are accountable to, and that this life right now is all that's on the menu.

*I would at this stage highlight that this is the key motivation for such a notion as revealed by everyone who has gone from one of the two types of agnosticism to theism.

So as your premise is the idea that:-

1. There is a lack of evidence to allow anyone coming to know God personally.

2. That the evidence clearly points to the absence of an Almighty being.

Let's look at your world view to examine the evidence?

My questions to you:-

A. What verified evidence you have found means that people who trust the Bible are "so susceptible"?

B. What key evidence gives you certainty that you are now in the right camp?

4 day cease fire ?

Well hopefully it happens but how long before Israel goes in again

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

4 day cease fire ?
Well hopefully it happens but how long before Israel goes in again

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Israel would still be getting on with everyday life and no where near Gaza if it wasn't for the evil plot that was hatched by their government. Some perspective would occasionally be helpful.

You know I don’t have any evidence in the same that I know you don’t have any evidence to support your beliefs. That’s why these conversations are pointless.

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Originally Posted by stevo

You know I don’t have any evidence in the same that I know you don’t have any evidence to support your beliefs. That’s why these conversations are pointless.

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So you left your faith because you lacked the access to the evidence that would allow you to defend it.
It's easier to assume it doesn't exist and run with the masses.

I used to work with a RC and for years we regularly discussed the issues you've raised and his position on the big questions was as fragile as every other RC I have met, so I know exactly the hand you are playing with.

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Originally Posted by truthpaste

Israel would still be getting on with everyday life and no where near Gaza if it wasn't for the evil plot that was hatched by their government. Some perspective would occasionally be helpful.

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Some perspective would be helpful - true.

If it wasn't for the 7 October attacks hundreds of Israeli civilians who lived on south Israeli kibbutz or were at the music festival would be getting on with their everyday lives - not kidnapped or murdered.

And the IDF and illegal settler gangs would still be murdering, intimidating and stealing land from West Bank Palestinians. And the Gaza strip would still be under a siege that started 16 years ago. And over 13000 Gaza residents would still be alive and not burned, crushed or dismembered by Israeli guns and rockets - aimed at hospitals, churches, mosques, UN compounds and residential blocks in a new round of collective punishment and ethnic cleansing that many/most observers think meets the definition of genocide.

Perspective - yes.

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Originally Posted by stevo

You know I don’t have any evidence in the same that I know you don’t have any evidence to support your beliefs. That’s why these conversations are pointless.

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It is like a conversation with people talking different languages, not just holding different belief systems. There is virtually no point of contact to take it forward. Circular logic and some niche expression of faith posing as proof doesn't go anywhere.

As long as it's is just about what goes on in someone's head, I don't care. But - going back to the thread - when a 'literal' Biblical fundamentalist starts waving the Old Testament around as justification for genocide in Israel/Palestine (God's will and promises to the 'chosen people') I care a lot.

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Originally Posted by truthpaste

I used to work with a RC and for years we regularly discussed the issues you've raised and his position on the big questions was as fragile as every other RC I have met, so I know exactly the hand you are playing with.

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LOL

Good news - seems a four day ceasefire is set to begin tomorrow after an agreement on hostage / prisoner exchanges

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Originally Posted by jon1959

Some perspective would be helpful - true.

If it wasn't for the 7 October attacks hundreds of Israeli civilians who lived on south Israeli kibbutz or were at the music festival would be getting on with their everyday lives - not kidnapped or murdered.

And the IDF and illegal settler gangs would still be murdering, intimidating and stealing land from West Bank Palestinians. And the Gaza strip would still be under a siege that started 16 years ago. And over 13000 Gaza residents would still be alive and not burned, crushed or dismembered by Israeli guns and rockets - aimed at hospitals, churches, mosques, UN compounds and residential blocks in a new round of collective punishment and ethnic cleansing that many/most observers think meets the definition of genocide.

Perspective - yes.

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The BBC would wholeheartedly agree :facepalm:

Stealing land you say, and what do you class as their rightful claim to that particular strip of land?

Many will have views one way or the other but I can honestly say I have never met a Christian who I would call dull/dopey/unintelligent call it what you will.

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Originally Posted by Dave Blue

Many will have views one way or the other but I can honestly say I have never met a Christian who I would call dull/dopey/unintelligent call it what you will.

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Kid Rock

Ted Nugent

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Originally Posted by truthpaste

So you left your faith because you lacked the access to the evidence that would allow you to defend it.
It's easier to assume it doesn't exist and run with the masses.

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I left my faith because there was only evidence to support that God didn’t exist (I’ve already given details on that). I wasn’t looking for evidence to support my faith - after all that’s what it’s all about isn’t it? Faith is just exactly that.

So, you have issues with RCs and Christadelphians, but you haven’t told us what denomination you belong to.

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Originally Posted by stevo

I left my faith because there was only evidence to support that God didn’t exist (I’ve already given details on that). I wasn’t looking for evidence to support my faith - after all that’s what it’s all about isn’t it? Faith is just exactly that.

So, you have issues with RCs and Christadelphians, but you haven’t told us what denomination you belong to.

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Sorry, I must have missed that. Please give the evidence you found to support your conclusion that God doesn't exist.

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Originally Posted by Gofer Blue

Sorry, I must have missed that. Please give the evidence you found to support your conclusion that God doesn't exist.

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No Bones

No Video of him doing magic tricks

Lack of evidence is evidence

I mean I am all for giving someone the benefit of doubt but he and his followers are trying desperately to get everyone to believe

So surely they would have left evidence that's he's here or has recently been here

If he's omnipotent and omnipresent he's had 2000 plus years to prove his existence to us but he's left nothing

Except you lot telling us he exists

I am afraid that doesn't stand up in court

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Originally Posted by Dave Blue

Many will have views one way or the other but I can honestly say I have never met a Christian who I would call dull/dopey/unintelligent call it what you will.

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The lead singer out of the killers

He's another dopey Christian

I'm not sure what it says about us or public debate generally, but 38 page thread, perhaps 1000 posts and nothing since the pause in fighting which is what we all wanted isn't it?