Get Brexit Done , Get Done By Brexit

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Originally Posted by elytillidie

I think Corbyn was originally anti-Europe, but chopped and changed a little. I think if he'd have come out and respected the Leave vote, we'd have had Brexit with a Labour government.
https://www.channel4.com/news/factch...-brexit-stance

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The man was all over the shop , he agreed with a social europe but was against what he and other left wing Labour MPs saw as a capitalist super state . I didn't agree with him . But the point of this thread is that it was the tories in their manifesto who said every penny of e u funding lost would be replaced ......so vote for us

Bridgend did .......and they are now told well actually you can't have any

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Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

Sludge, some of the left like Benn always were anti EU. Their arguments about the perceived lack of democracy within the EU was central to their politics.

Some are having revisionist history here.

As it goes, I was full on Remain. The Tory governments trickle down policies will never invest in Wales, even though they’re now saving £350 million a week.

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I am fully aware of idiots like Benn . Good entertainment but thats it .

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

I am fully aware of idiots like Benn . Good entertainment but thats it .

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Your view of Benn is “Good entertainment but that’s it”?

*raises eyebrow*

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

No

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I think you'll fond he was.
The surely you're not stupid enough to argue otherwise is a sly old trick sludge. If the person doesn't argue it means you win the point and if they do you can say they are stupid. But it isn't really a fact is it?
The prime mover for remain was a tory and a lot of pro leave were labour, as you can see by the areas that voted for out.
Or are you suggesting that labour voters voted for Brexit because labour voters are stupid and couldn't see the real facts as someone of your intellect can?
If you are suggesting that then maybe the vote for the tories in the following election was them stupidly thinking that it would corret their stupidity. Maybe!!!!

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Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

That’ll upset a few on here.:biggrin:

Kate Hoey should be a Tory though, she ticks most of the boxes of homophobia, xenophobia and twattishness.

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Kate Hoey presented me a prize for being the best cartography student at a college in London so she's not all bad.....

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Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

Your view of Benn is “Good entertainment but that’s it”?

*raises eyebrow*

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Tony Benn made a political career out of being on question Time

Wrote a few good books , I have some but it was all ideas

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

I think you'll fond he was.
The surely you're not stupid enough to argue otherwise is a sly old trick sludge. If the person doesn't argue it means you win the point and if they do you can say they are stupid. But it isn't really a fact is it?
The prime mover for remain was a tory and a lot of pro leave were labour, as you can see by the areas that voted for out.
Or are you suggesting that labour voters voted for Brexit because labour voters are stupid and couldn't see the real facts as someone of your intellect can?
If you are suggesting that then maybe the vote for the tories in the following election was them stupidly thinking that it would corret their stupidity. Maybe!!!!

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So you think that the prime mover to remain was a tory ?

Cameron ?

Cameron was all about Cameron

Ken Clarke was a moderate , left leaning tory who spoke a lot of sense , most of the tory party were anti Europe and had been since Thatcher turned up

The voters were conned


It will all come out in the wash and this latest trick , which you have completely failed to comment on , is just the start 👌

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

So you think that the prime mover to remain was a tory ?

Cameron ?

Cameron was all about Cameron

Ken Clarke was a moderate , left leaning tory who spoke a lot of sense , most of the tory party were anti Europe and had been since Thatcher turned up

The voters were conned


It will all come out in the wash and this latest trick , which you have completely failed to comment on , is just the start ��

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You are clearly far far better informed than everyone else, who was the "prime mover" as you call it?
As I said you obviously feel you are far more astute than the average labour voter who were apparently stupid enough to vote for Brexit. So what do you suggest, that anyone who disagrees with your opinion should be ineligible to vote?
The Brexit argument is like Soviet communism, its gone, done with, finished. Live with both things.

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

You are clearly far far better informed than everyone else, who was the "prime mover" as you call it?
As I said you obviously feel you are far more astute than the average labour voter who were apparently stupid enough to vote for Brexit. So what do you suggest, that anyone who disagrees with your opinion should be ineligible to vote?
The Brexit argument is like Soviet communism, its gone, done with, finished. Live with both things.

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No one can know for sure, but most number crunchers think that about 30% of people who voted Labour in 2017 also voted Leave in the Brexit Referendum.

So the average Labour voter was smart enough to vote Remain!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48039984

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

You are clearly far far better informed than everyone else, who was the "prime mover" as you call it?
As I said you obviously feel you are far more astute than the average labour voter who were apparently stupid enough to vote for Brexit. So what do you suggest, that anyone who disagrees with your opinion should be ineligible to vote?
The Brexit argument is like Soviet communism, its gone, done with, finished. Live with both things.

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Well the post above seems to suggest that 70 percent of labour voters were remain , so it appears I was correct

But this thread isn't about who is clever

Its about the tory manifesto promise that areas that lost EU money would have every penny of that money replaced by the conservatives community fund

And its a complete lie

And you , as a tory , support that

You can either answer the question or ........

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Well the post above seems to suggest that 70 percent of labour voters were remain , so it appears I was correct

But this thread isn't about who is clever

Its about the tory manifesto promise that areas that lost EU money would have every penny of that money replaced by the conservatives community fund

And its a complete lie

And you , as a tory , support that

You can either answer the question or ........

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There you go stating opinion as fact again because it suits your agenda. You actually just spout bullshit.
So 70% of labour supporters voted remain and the other 30% were too stupid to vote, is that what you mean?

And you sneakily change your stance from the Brexit vote to the Tory manifesto. you can't just keep moving the goal posts just to suit your argument when you're losing sludge.
You know that the labour party as it stands is a spent force and until there is a better alternative to the Conservative party we'll just have to live with it.
All your shouting and raving about things that are gone done and dusted are just fecking boring. :tumbleweed:
So wind your neck i9n and stop bleating like a trapped goat.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

I am fully aware of idiots like Benn . Good entertainment but thats it .

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You're a Blairite, Sludge, Which makes you a Tory in my book.

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

There you go stating opinion as fact again because it suits your agenda. You actually just spout bullshit.
So 70% of labour supporters voted remain and the other 30% were too stupid to vote, is that what you mean?

And you sneakily change your stance from the Brexit vote to the Tory manifesto. you can't just keep moving the goal posts just to suit your argument when you're losing sludge.
You know that the labour party as it stands is a spent force and until there is a better alternative to the Conservative party we'll just have to live with it.
All your shouting and raving about things that are gone done and dusted are just fecking boring. :tumbleweed:
So wind your neck i9n and stop bleating like a trapped goat.

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Answer the question posed in the thread regarding the tory scum pulling out of funding they promised to brexit voting deprived areas

Even you can try

I know the Labour Party is fecked , I want an alternative

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

You're a Blairite, Sludge, Which makes you a Tory in my book.

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of course I am , I gave you the list of direct action I took and have taken against racism and the policies of the right . I hated Blair

Didn't see you confronting the racist English defence league ?

Where were you ?

Busy ?

Marched against the invasion of Iraq in London, and cardiff

Were you there ?

Or too busy reading books on socialist philosophy 🤔

All mouth

See you the next time the far right march in Cardiff

On the front line

Don't wear your sandals

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

of course I am , I gave you the list of direct action I took and have taken against racism and the policies of the right . I hated Blair

Didn't see you confronting the racist English defence league ?

Where were you ?

Busy ?

Marched against the invasion of Iraq in London, and cardiff

Were you there ?

Or too busy reading books on socialist philosophy ��

All mouth

See you the next time the far right march in Cardiff

On the front line

Don't wear your sandals

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Sludge, when it comes to fighting racism and Fascism, you've picked the wrong fight my friend. Incidentally, even Tories can hate racism and Fascists.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

Sludge, when it comes to fighting racism and Fascism, you've picked the wrong fight my friend. Incidentally, even Tories can hate racism and Fascists.

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I know all about your old man , I spoke to him

I am talking about you

I marched against the invasion of Iraq, in London and Cardiff

I nearly got flattened after informing the police of Cardiff city fans spitting in the faces of black players warming up at an away game

And when the far right English defence league came to Cardiff I was there

And you call me a blairite ?

Do yourself a favour ff sake

Time for bed

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

of course I am , I gave you the list of direct action I took and have taken against racism and the policies of the right . I hated Blair

Didn't see you confronting the racist English defence league ?

Where were you ?

Busy ?

Marched against the invasion of Iraq in London, and cardiff

Were you there ?

Or too busy reading books on socialist philosophy ��

All mouth

See you the next time the far right march in Cardiff

On the front line

Don't wear your sandals

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sorry for butting in lads but I was there at that March in 2010 when the EDL misfits came to town Sludge and nearly come to blows with the East Midland branch when they come off there buses . don't think they lasted very long did they

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Originally Posted by MOZZER2

sorry for butting in lads but I was there at that March in 2010 when the EDL misfits came to town Sludge and nearly come to blows with the East Midland branch when they come off there buses . don't think they lasted very long did they

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There was about 200 of them, Some City fans attacked them as they got off their coaches, that's when the Police gave them even more protection. They were sent packing.

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Originally Posted by MOZZER2

sorry for butting in lads but I was there at that March in 2010 when the EDL misfits came to town Sludge and nearly come to blows with the East Midland branch when they come off there buses . don't think they lasted very long did they

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let's just say they were a bit out of their depth

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

There was about 200 of them, Some City fans attacked them as they got off their coaches, that's when the Police gave them even more protection. They were sent packing.

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a coach from Bolton became an open top version with no windows

They had to go home by train and they were met by a welcoming cultural atache group at Cardiff Central , some large chaps

Who wernt interested in exchanging gifts

They were very quiet being walked into the back of Cardiff Central

Don't think they enjoyed their visit to Cardiff

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

I know all about your old man , I spoke to him

I am talking about you

I marched against the invasion of Iraq, in London and Cardiff

I nearly got flattened after informing the police of Cardiff city fans spitting in the faces of black players warming up at an away game

And when the far right English defence league came to Cardiff I was there

And you call me a blairite ?

Do yourself a favour ff sake

Time for bed

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I was on both demos, the anti invasion of Iraq, with my mother, father and missus, and the Edl one in Cardiff with my mother as my dad was on his way out at that point. I've been on countless anti fascist demos, attended meetings, confronted fascist wankers, removed from my house twice as a child and picked up by the police from school because the NF were threatening to kidnap me and my sister or fire bomb our house. I've seen my mother spat at while I was at her side as a child and she was told that she wasn't even worth raping. All that by nazi scum.

I've done my share and will continue to do so. You know **** all sludge.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

I was on both demos, the anti invasion of Iraq, with my mother, father and missus, and the Edl one in Cardiff with my mother as my dad was on his way out at that point. I've been on countless anti fascist demos, attended meetings, confronted fascist wankers, removed from my house twice as a child and picked up by the police from school because the NF were threatening to kidnap me and my sister or fire bomb our house. I've seen my mother spat at while I was at her side as a child and she was told that she wasn't even worth raping. All that by nazi scum.

I've done my share and will continue to do so. You know **** all sludge.

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well if you had read what I posted about my involvement in fighting fascism and racism you would have known was a pile of horse shit you were speaking in labelling me a supporter of Blair

You were just being an arse

So do one or see you at the next demo

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

well if you had read what I posted about my involvement in fighting fascism and racism you would have known was a pile of horse shit you were speaking in labelling me a supporter of Blair

You were just being an arse

So do one or see you at the next demo

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Sludge, Centrist is right wing, it's a natural leaning towards the right, always has been, it can't be anything else, same as most independents. You may be anti war, but you want a right wing labour party, or one that appeases the right. That's your business i suppose. You talk of left wing politics as some kind of fantasy, a non reality, the stuff of the immature, the youthful dreamer. Sorry mate, you've jumped into bed with the right wing media and the politicians (Like Nandy and Co) who are Tory to the core. They try and dress up their right wing views by trying to sound fair and rational about their real intentions.

Centre is centre , left it left , right is right , being a centralist in my view doesn't make you left wing or right wing ,love the fact everyone loves a mainly centrist social democratic Europe , are they right wing as well ?

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Centre is centre , left it left , right is right , being a centralist in my view doesn't make you left wing or right wing ,love the fact everyone loves a mainly centrist social democratic Europe , are they right wing as well ?

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Words are words, and labels are labels, and gibberish is the new analysis.

So you 'love the fact everyone loves a mainly centrist social democratic Europe'? Are you basing this insight on the make up of the Commission, the Parliament or the governments/parliaments of the member states?

I'm sure that Europe (the EU) is not social democratic in any of those cases. Of the 703 MEPs in the Parliament, only 145 are social democrats. Or are you making the case for 'centrist' parties (abandoning its use in this thread in relation to right wing Labourism?) to include Christian Democrats, some Liberals and other assorted conservatives? If so they barely make up half the Parliament, with all of them losing votes over recent times to socialists, left populists, Greens, right populists/nationalists and born again Nazis.