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Re: Scottish Independence
I wouldn't like to see Scotland leave the union but I wouldn't stand in their way either, if that is what the majority of Scots want. I would strongly suggest though that the bar be set at a minimum 66% majority otherwise they will have a BREXIT type situation where the country is split down the middle and the bitterness and recriminations will go on and on...
Whenever I hear Sturgeon and Blackford whinging about independence and how dare the wicked Westminster government try to usurp the will of the Scottish people, I must admit I feel like saying ok get on with it, good luck and goodbye!
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Re: Scottish Independence
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lord Dargavel
Absolute nonsense!
You are more than welcome to disagree with me and I will respect your opinion - but just responding with 'Absolute nonsense' doesn't really add anything meaningful to the debate, old fruit.
By the way, do you think I, as a Welsh person based in England, should be able to vote if there is a referendum on Welsh independence?
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Re: Scottish Independence
Quote:
Originally Posted by
xsnaggle
WWhy the zap. He's not catching me out is he? I already said I don't know the answers, I'm just trying to see what other peoples opinions are on the whole question.
The zap was for my reply to lifeonmars, not you. Don't be sensitive!
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Re: Scottish Independence
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taunton Blue Genie
How would they be massively affected? If they are that concerned they should move back to the region they want to have a say in.
And what criteria should apply to allow such people to vote? What defines anyone as being Scottish or having spent enough time in Scotland? Should a Devonian who lived for 20 years in Scotland have a vote after returning to Devon a year ago?
Should anyone have a say in the future of a country when they no longer live in it?
Should Scots who live abroad have a vote?
Should Scots who have lived for 10 years outside Scotland have a vote? Should those who may never have to endure the consequences of the vote have a say?
I think it's simpler and more logical for only those registered as a resident in Scotland to have a vote - and consistent with our current electoral system when voting for our MPs. Those contributing to the local economy and who use the services provided by the taxes they pay should have a say - and not an exile like me.
Of course they'd be massively affected, that's the whole point - to make big changes.
I think British people who have lived abroad for less than 15 years are still allowed to register to vote. That seems more reasonable to me than saying you lose your rights if you move and if you want them then you should move back.
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Re: Scottish Independence
Quote:
Originally Posted by
xsnaggle
The figures do not necessarily show that. There may have been occasions where the UK voted 'yes' and were on the losing side and other occasions where they voted 'no' and were on the winning side. Taken bare of any further information the numbers are pointless.
The figures do show that. That's what "winning side" means.
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Re: Scottish Independence
Quote:
Originally Posted by
xsnaggle
WWhy the zap. He's not catching me out is he? I already said I don't know the answers, I'm just trying to see what other peoples opinions are on the whole question.
Yes It was a question and I just answered as I see it , as you point it out you simply asked for a view or opinion .
No zapping from me leave I leave that to the clever super heroes of life .
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Re: Scottish Independence
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wash DC Blue
Some people just don’t like Britain, Nation States and what they stand for.
Some nation states are better configurated than others, couldn't think of a worse example than ours here in the UK tbh.
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Re: Scottish Independence
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Originally Posted by
Pilkers
Some nation states are better configurated than others, couldn't think of a worse example than ours here in the UK tbh.
Really?
Not even South Sudan?
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Re: Scottish Independence
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Originally Posted by
Wash DC Blue
Really?
Not even South Sudan?
I'll cover South Sudan and raise you Yemen.
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Re: Scottish Independence
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Originally Posted by
xsnaggle
I'll cover South Sudan and raise you Yemen.
As I said, some people just hate The UK.
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Re: Scottish Independence
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Yes It was a question and I just answered as I see it , as you point it out you simply asked for a view or opinion .
No zapping from me leave I leave that to the clever super heroes of life .
But does your opinion extend to thinking that Hans from Munich should have had a vote on Brexit if Dennis from Bournemouth is due a vote on Scottish Independence - as you think is only right and proper.
And if not, why not?
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Re: Scottish Independence
Quote:
Originally Posted by
xsnaggle
WWhy the zap. He's not catching me out is he? I already said I don't know the answers, I'm just trying to see what other peoples opinions are on the whole question.
Lardy was replying to LOM not you. LOM thinks everyone in the UK should have a right to vote on Scottish independence. Because everyone in the UK is part of the current union and will be affected by the outcome. As Lardy points out using that argument or logic every citizen of the EU should have had a vote on Brexit. Not something LOM would support. Nor me.
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Re: Scottish Independence
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Originally Posted by
Moodybluebird
On a personal level I sincerely hope that if there is to be another referendum, the result is the same as the last one.
I have no particular affinity for the Scots but I would hate to see the break up of the Union.
The SNP seems to attract some of the most loathsome creatures on the planet. OK slightly OTT, but I really detest Ian Blackford, Alex Salmond and Mrs Krankie herself and hope that their plans for independence go up in smoke and they disappear into oblivion.
All a matter of opinion I suppose, but I think the SNP has some of the most credible, articulate and incisive politicians in the UK - and I am constantly impressed by them and depressed by how Labour and the other opposition parties in Westminster compares. Blackford wipes the floor with Starmer, and Sturgeon (despite the wriggling around the Salmond affair) is a political colossus compared to Johnson.
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Re: Scottish Independence
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Originally Posted by
jon1959
All a matter of opinion I suppose, but I think the SNP has some of the most credible, articulate and incisive politicians in the UK - and I am constantly impressed by them and depressed by how Labour and the other opposition parties in Westminster compares. Blackford wipes the floor with Starmer, and Sturgeon (despite the wriggling around the Salmond affair) is a political colossus compared to Johnson.
Each to their own I suppose and whilst I agree that Sturgeon is a smart cookie, I find Blackford to be an annoying whinge bag. And don't get me started on Mr Smug himself. Just glad that he's now on a collision course with his old mucker. They deserve each other
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Re: Scottish Independence
I've always taken some pride in the harmony that exists between the Welsh, English and Scots. What Britain has achieved in that regard gives hope for a peaceful end to all those civil wars raging around the world. It's a good model, and it has been achieved in the face of centuries of hostility. I know we sometimes have a go at each other in sports and politics, but I never felt (just to show my age) that people like Denis Law, Nobby Stiles, George Best, Jock Stein and, yes, Mick McCarthy, were ever anything other than my countrymen.
I like our union. I hope it survives.
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Re: Scottish Independence
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Originally Posted by
jimmyscoular
I've always taken some pride in the harmony that exists between the Welsh, English and Scots.
I love reading a bit of sarcasm.
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Re: Scottish Independence
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Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
I love reading a bit of sarcasm.
Good line. And, I suppose, part of the teasing that is always going on.
But it has been a very long time since the Scots burned Carlisle.
And that is a good thing.
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Re: Scottish Independence
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jimmyscoular
Good line. And, I suppose, part of the teasing that is always going on.
But it has been a very long time since the Scots burned Carlisle.
And that is a good thing.
I'm not too sure. Have you been to Carlisle recently ?
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Re: Scottish Independence
I'd love to see the Scots get independence and hopefully see the start of the union fall.
My biggest fear is we'd be stuck with the Westminster crew.
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Re: Scottish Independence
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Harry Paget Flashman
I'd love to see the Scots get independence and hopefully see the start of the union fall.
My biggest fear is we'd be stuck with the Westminster crew.
Getting independence carries no guarantees of success in Europe, neither is the collapse of the union , we could see a lot more wealth creation in England and Westminster if it didn'thave to fund Scotland, an interesting fact is 40 percent (£32billion) of state spending in Scotland is provided via Westminster, of which £25billion goes on pensions and social security.
They would have a huge shortfall some say 25 billion as they have big social spending commitments, if they ran independently and could only survive by hiking its taxes or reduce its social spending .
The emotion of independence versus the effect to Scotland , Wales and Northern Ireland is something to that needs very careful consideration ,some may hate Westminster but there's a saying better the devil you know
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Re: Scottish Independence
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Moodybluebird
I'm not too sure. Have you been to Carlisle recently ?
I was sat in a bar with my son on a Saturday night looking out at the goings on in Carlisle centre and I observed that the local ladies who were travelling around in groups appeared to be enjoying a fancy dress evening.
The barman looked out and said “no...it’s always like this”
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Re: Scottish Independence
The West Lothian question is ne that has vexed Westminster politics since Enoch Powell raised it in 1977.
Elected representatives of Scotland should vote on matters that affect Scotland and on no other.
If Scotland choose to go in that direction then so be it and good luck to them except that if it turns to shit especially under that cnt Salmond and they knock on the door asking to be reintegrated they should be advised to fk off directly. IMO
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Re: Scottish Independence
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Getting independence carries no guarantees of success in Europe, neither is the collapse of the union , we could see a lot more wealth creation in England and Westminster if it didn'thave to fund Scotland, an interesting fact is 40 percent (£32billion) of state spending in Scotland is provided via Westminster, of which £25billion goes on pensions and social security.
They would have a huge shortfall some say 25 billion as they have big social spending commitments, if they ran independently and could only survive by hiking its taxes or reduce its social spending .
The emotion of independence versus the effect to Scotland , Wales and Northern Ireland is something to that needs very careful consideration ,some may hate Westminster but there's a saying better the devil you know
I'd rather be the poor man of Europe but in control of our own destiny than be governed by people with no interest in Wales.
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Re: Scottish Independence
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Harry Paget Flashman
I'd rather be the poor man of Europe but in control of our own destiny than be governed by people with no interest in Wales.
Bingo.
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Re: Scottish Independence
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Harry Paget Flashman
I'd rather be the poor man of Europe but in control of our own destiny than be governed by people with no interest in Wales.
Using that logic are we to assume that you are one of the "I'd rather play Rochdale every season than have my club run by seldom-seen billionaire owner" brigade ?