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Re: Rate the last ten Managers in order?
Lets face it the list is dreadful.
Its a miracle we are still in this league with that lot.
Ive got Lennie pretty high up but he just managed to go up via scraping in the play offs when the money we spent we should have been walking promotion.
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Re: Rate the last ten Managers in order?
Some stats to consider:
Win percentages (all games):
Mackay 43.2%
Jones 41.9%
Lawrence 41.4%
Warnock 41.0%
Harris 38.7%
Morison 38.2%
Slade 37.2%
McCarthy 36.8%
Solskjaer 30.0%
Trollope 16.7%
Loss percentages:
Mackay 28.0%
Lawrence 29.9%
Slade 31.4%
Jones 31.4%
Harris 33.9%
McCarthy 34.2%
Warnock 38.9%
Morison 44.1%
Solskjaer 53.3%
Trollope 66.7%
Goals scored average
Lawrence 1.44
Harris 1.40
Mackay 1.40
Jones 1.40
McCarthy 1.32
Warnock 1.29
Slade 1.23
Morison 1.21
Solskjaer 1.13
Trollope 0.67
Goals conceded average:
Lawrence 1.11
Jones 1.20
Slade 1.21
Mackay 1.22
Harris 1.27
Warnock 1.31
McCarthy 1.32
Morison 1.35
Trollope 1.67
Solskjaer 1.90
Games won by 3 or more goals:
Lawrence 26.4%
McCarthy 21.4%
Harris 20.8%
Jones 16.7%
Warnock 11.9%
Mackay 11.1%
Morison 7.7%
Slade 3.1%
Solskjaer 0.0%
Trollope 0.0%
Games lost by 3 or more goals:
Slade 11.1%
Lawrence 11.5%
Trollope 12.5%
Morison 13.3%
Harris 14.3%
Mackay 17.1%
Jones 18.2%
Warnock 19.6%
McCarthy 30.8%
Solskjaer 37.5%
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Re: Rate the last ten Managers in order?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
Some stats to consider:
Win percentages (all games):
Mackay 43.2%
Jones 41.9%
Lawrence 41.4%
Warnock 41.0%
Harris 38.7%
Morison 38.2%
Slade 37.2%
McCarthy 36.8%
Solskjaer 30.0%
Trollope 16.7%
Loss percentages:
Mackay 28.0%
Lawrence 29.9%
Slade 31.4%
Jones 31.4%
Harris 33.9%
McCarthy 34.2%
Warnock 38.9%
Morison 44.1%
Solskjaer 53.3%
Trollope 66.7%
Goals scored average
Lawrence 1.44
Harris 1.40
Mackay 1.40
Jones 1.40
McCarthy 1.32
Warnock 1.29
Slade 1.23
Morison 1.21
Solskjaer 1.13
Trollope 0.67
Goals conceded average:
Lawrence 1.11
Jones 1.20
Slade 1.21
Mackay 1.22
Harris 1.27
Warnock 1.31
McCarthy 1.32
Morison 1.35
Trollope 1.67
Solskjaer 1.90
Games won by 3 or more goals:
Lawrence 26.4%
McCarthy 21.4%
Harris 20.8%
Jones 16.7%
Warnock 11.9%
Mackay 11.1%
Morison 7.7%
Slade 3.1%
Solskjaer 0.0%
Trollope 0.0%
Games lost by 3 or more goals:
Slade 11.1%
Lawrence 11.5%
Trollope 12.5%
Morison 13.3%
Harris 14.3%
Mackay 17.1%
Jones 18.2%
Warnock 19.6%
McCarthy 30.8%
Solskjaer 37.5%
Interesting.
I suppose you have to take into account Premier League fixtures are in the stats for 3 and L1 for 1.
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Re: Rate the last ten Managers in order?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hilts
Interesting.
I suppose you have to take into account Premier League fixtures are in the stats for 3 and L1 for 1.
Absolutely. Warnock takes a hit because he had a full Premier League season, similarly Mackay but to a lesser extent. Lawrence did get us promoted and had an unbelievable start to his reign as manager, but in League 1.
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Re: Rate the last ten Managers in order?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
Absolutely. Warnock takes a hit because he had a full Premier League season, similarly Mackay but to a lesser extent. Lawrence did get us promoted and had an unbelievable start to his reign as manager, but in League 1.
To judge them fairly we probably need to invent some kind of balanced scorecard - one that doesn't just take into account which league we were in during their tenures, but also the quality of squad inherited, transfer budgets, how well they recruited in each window, tactical ability and flexibility, connection to the fans (communication and club culture) and ability to manage sideways and up.
It goes without saying that every season played in the Championship was the weakest ever!
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Re: Rate the last ten Managers in order?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
Harris twice?
Bottom Harris is Slade sorry
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Re: Rate the last ten Managers in order?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hilts
Lets face it the list is dreadful.
Its a miracle we are still in this league with that lot.
Ive got Lennie pretty high up but he just managed to go up via scraping in the play offs when the money we spent we should have been walking promotion.
Just compare it to the list the jacks have had and where they are since, it’s frightening how badly run we are…..
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Re: Rate the last ten Managers in order?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
goats
Just compare it to the list the jacks have had and where they are since, it’s frightening how badly run we are…..
I'm going to do a Swansea Manager top 10 tommorow :thumbup:
Then Friday a top ten of the combined Swansea Cardiff Managers!
I've looked over their list they've got some crap, but hit a good spell with Potts and Cardiff fan Cooper, and the really good ones Sousa Brenda Martinez and Laudrup, were more than 10 ago.
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Re: Rate the last ten Managers in order?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
Some stats to consider:
Win percentages (all games):
Mackay 43.2%
Jones 41.9%
Lawrence 41.4%
Warnock 41.0%
Harris 38.7%
Morison 38.2%
Slade 37.2%
McCarthy 36.8%
Solskjaer 30.0%
Trollope 16.7%
Loss percentages:
Mackay 28.0%
Lawrence 29.9%
Slade 31.4%
Jones 31.4%
Harris 33.9%
McCarthy 34.2%
Warnock 38.9%
Morison 44.1%
Solskjaer 53.3%
Trollope 66.7%
Goals scored average
Lawrence 1.44
Harris 1.40
Mackay 1.40
Jones 1.40
McCarthy 1.32
Warnock 1.29
Slade 1.23
Morison 1.21
Solskjaer 1.13
Trollope 0.67
Goals conceded average:
Lawrence 1.11
Jones 1.20
Slade 1.21
Mackay 1.22
Harris 1.27
Warnock 1.31
McCarthy 1.32
Morison 1.35
Trollope 1.67
Solskjaer 1.90
Games won by 3 or more goals:
Lawrence 26.4%
McCarthy 21.4%
Harris 20.8%
Jones 16.7%
Warnock 11.9%
Mackay 11.1%
Morison 7.7%
Slade 3.1%
Solskjaer 0.0%
Trollope 0.0%
Games lost by 3 or more goals:
Slade 11.1%
Lawrence 11.5%
Trollope 12.5%
Morison 13.3%
Harris 14.3%
Mackay 17.1%
Jones 18.2%
Warnock 19.6%
McCarthy 30.8%
Solskjaer 37.5%
Malky stats are impressive especially when many are in the Premier League, if he'd have stayed we would have stayed up, and the rest as they say would be history!
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Re: Rate the last ten Managers in order?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
North Cardiff Blue
Malky stats are impressive especially when many are in the Premier League, if he'd have stayed we would have stayed up, and the rest as they say would be history!
No I believe we would have been relegated under Malky. We didn't spend much or any time in the bottom 3 under him, but mostly because other teams were having an even worse run at the time, which was never going to be sustainable. Us and Fulham had clearly the worst xG difference the whole season and it wasn't a surprise we were both relegated.
That said we probably wouldn't have finished bottom.
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Re: Rate the last ten Managers in order?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hilts
Your probably right. Too harsh on Slade Im sure he wouldnt have brought on Kelvin Etuhu early on in a play off final.😂😂😂
I ll have Harris and Slade as cant separate.
Jones just below them but above Ole , Trollope and 5 centre halves McCarthy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
North Cardiff Blue
I'm going to do a Swansea Manager top 10 tommorow :thumbup:
Then Friday a top ten of the combined Swansea Cardiff Managers!
I've looked over their list they've got some crap, but hit a good spell with Potts and Cardiff fan Cooper, and the really good ones Sousa Brenda Martinez and Laudrup, were more than 10 ago.
There's only one candidate for the best Jack's manager. Kevin Cullis.....
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Re: Rate the last ten Managers in order?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
To judge them fairly we probably need to invent some kind of balanced scorecard - one that doesn't just take into account which league we were in during their tenures, but also the quality of squad inherited, transfer budgets, how well they recruited in each window, tactical ability and flexibility, connection to the fans (communication and club culture) and ability to manage sideways and up.
It goes without saying that every season played in the Championship was the weakest ever!
Not sure connection with the fans means anything in terms of a manager's ability. Warnock and Jones were chalk and cheese in that regard, yet I bet that made no difference to how they managed their teams.
Jones, Slade, Harris, McCarthy, Morison and Slade only managed us in the Championship. In terms of averages of each game played in each tier, Lawrence has an average of 2.39, Mackay 1.84, Warnock 1.72 and Solskjaer 1.28
Quality of squads inherited:
I reckon the squads inherited by Mackay and Jones were the worst. Jones apparently told the board to sell whatever they needed while he was on holiday and he'd sort out things when he got back. Warnock recognised a need for some pace and a presence at the back and turned Trollope's side into one showing playoff form. Lawrence inherited a side that went on an incredible run and had already beaten Leeds in the cup, so he probably had the strongest. The rest were probably all similar; Slade had a lot of very good players at his disposal but many had to go, so unfair to say he had a strong squad.
Transfer budgets and recruitment:
This is almost impossible to quantify. Lawrence had a certain budget but millions had already been spent by Alan Cork. Jones and Ridsdale had a plan of paying high wages instead of transfer fees, then when the Malaysians came in, Jones was backed in his last season. Mackay only had money in our second season after Tan changed the shirt colours, but most of his best signings came before then. Solskjaer was given lots to spend, as was Warnock when promotion became the aim. The rest had little to spend. It has long been the question of whether Jones would have got us promoted if he had the money Mackay had - I don't think he would have as most of his work in getting a promotion team had been done in his first season, others think differently.
Do we also include players sold for big fees? Does bringing in a player that doesn't work out mean the transfer was a flop? Some players don't work out at certain clubs for no reason. We've had a record of bringing in good attacking players who never really shone for us.
Tactical ability and flexibility:
I regard this as the ability to set your team to get the best out of your players but also to try and nullify things with the other team. Jones can't be regarded highly here as he paid very little attention to what the opposition might do. He set his side to play a certain way and that was it. Jones himself said this in an interview that the opposition should be more afraid of us. Jay Bothroyd confirmed this. Warnock and Mackay were, for me, the best of the list at making tweaks and changes during games to sort out problems.
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Re: Rate the last ten Managers in order?
No way Slade should be in anyone's bottom three. In hindsight he did a pretty good job.
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Re: Rate the last ten Managers in order?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
Not sure connection with the fans means anything in terms of a manager's ability. Warnock and Jones were chalk and cheese in that regard, yet I bet that made no difference to how they managed their teams.
Jones, Slade, Harris, McCarthy, Morison and Slade only managed us in the Championship. In terms of averages of each game played in each tier, Lawrence has an average of 2.39, Mackay 1.84, Warnock 1.72 and Solskjaer 1.28
Quality of squads inherited:
I reckon the squads inherited by Mackay and Jones were the worst. Jones apparently told the board to sell whatever they needed while he was on holiday and he'd sort out things when he got back. Warnock recognised a need for some pace and a presence at the back and turned Trollope's side into one showing playoff form. Lawrence inherited a side that went on an incredible run and had already beaten Leeds in the cup, so he probably had the strongest. The rest were probably all similar; Slade had a lot of very good players at his disposal but many had to go, so unfair to say he had a strong squad.
Transfer budgets and recruitment:
This is almost impossible to quantify. Lawrence had a certain budget but millions had already been spent by Alan Cork. Jones and Ridsdale had a plan of paying high wages instead of transfer fees, then when the Malaysians came in, Jones was backed in his last season. Mackay only had money in our second season after Tan changed the shirt colours, but most of his best signings came before then. Solskjaer was given lots to spend, as was Warnock when promotion became the aim. The rest had little to spend. It has long been the question of whether Jones would have got us promoted if he had the money Mackay had - I don't think he would have as most of his work in getting a promotion team had been done in his first season, others think differently.
Do we also include players sold for big fees? Does bringing in a player that doesn't work out mean the transfer was a flop? Some players don't work out at certain clubs for no reason. We've had a record of bringing in good attacking players who never really shone for us.
Tactical ability and flexibility:
I regard this as the ability to set your team to get the best out of your players but also to try and nullify things with the other team. Jones can't be regarded highly here as he paid very little attention to what the opposition might do. He set his side to play a certain way and that was it. Jones himself said this in an interview that the opposition should be more afraid of us. Jay Bothroyd confirmed this. Warnock and Mackay were, for me, the best of the list at making tweaks and changes during games to sort out problems.
Another thing that pisses me off about Jones is the complete lack of discipline.
The interviews with several players years later about piss ups inflatable dingys not wanting to train in the heat etc etc.
We seemed knackered by November hardly suprising and who knows what theyd been up to in the days before that crunch game v Boro when we were blown away after about 20 mins.
Add in tactics , team , selection , the failures and the embarrassing defeats along the way and sorry dont rate him.
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Re: Rate the last ten Managers in order?
the only reason manky and worncock are top is the promotion.both of them took the piss buying garbage players imo.
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Re: Rate the last ten Managers in order?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Der Kaiser
Malky
Neil Warnock
Dave Jones
Lennie Lawrence
Neil Harris
Russell Slade
Steve Morison
OGS
Mick McCarthy
Paul Trollope
Exactly this ^^^^
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Re: Rate the last ten Managers in order?
Malky
Warnock
Jones
Lawrence
Slade
Harris
Morison
OGS
Mad Mick
Trollope
Bloody hell we've had some dross as Managers
The bottom 6 should never have been anywhere near the job.
Morison will either be MOTM in October or sacked
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Re: Rate the last ten Managers in order?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ToTaL ITK
the only reason manky and worncock are top is the promotion.both of them took the piss buying garbage players imo.
Cornelius apart, I don't recall Mackay making many expensive mistakes, especially in getting the team promoted. Noone was worth £1m, Fraizer Campbell less than that. Nicky Maynard cost £2-3m and looked like the missing part of the jigsaw until a terrible injury that robbed him of an excellent career.
Warnock made far more transfer cockups but there was only really Gary Madine who was a failure out of anyone we paid any sort of money en route to promotion.
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Re: Rate the last ten Managers in order?
Eddie May is my favourite manager.
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Re: Rate the last ten Managers in order?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Hooded Claw
It looks good, but I think Russel Slade deserves to be above Solksjaer and McCarthy seeing as he had a poisoned chalice of a job - no money to spend and he didn’t play five centre backs - even though the football was dire.
Do agree..
Warnock above Malky though.. his promotion was off-the-wall wall and never expected , and made a better fist of staying up ..
Eddie May should be higher he was a god
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Re: Rate the last ten Managers in order?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Do agree..
Warnock above Malky though.. his promotion was off-the-wall wall and never expected , and made a better fist of staying up ..
Eddie May should be higher he was a god
??? Eddie May is not one of our last ten managers, he might not even be among the last twenty, so it’s not a case of him being higher or lower in the list, he ‘s just not in it :shrug:
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Re: Rate the last ten Managers in order?
How can Dave Jones be top when he won nothing
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Re: Rate the last ten Managers in order?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WJ99mobile
How can Dave Jones be top when he won nothing
It's subjective there are no right or wrong answers, it's your opinion, we are all bound to disagree most of the time.
I felt he lifted the club and took us to a new level, he signed brilliant players and kept having to find good players as the best were constantly sold, if he had the backing of Warnock and Malky he would have taken us up IMO. I also enjoyed the football and he got us to an FA cup final which is difficult for a Championship team, we should have won it though, it was there for the taking!
He also was a good Premiership Manager we only got him due to the no smoke without fire stage of his career.
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Re: Rate the last ten Managers in order?
Warnock
Lennie
Malky
Jones
Morison
Harris
McCarthy
Slade
OGS
Trollope
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Re: Rate the last ten Managers in order?
I would have said the remarkable thing about Dave Jones is that he managed not to get us promoted with the best side I've seen at City.