What is Russia playing at and should we be shitting ourselves yet?

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Originally Posted by heath/ccfc wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 13:17

that reads differently from what Nick has alluded to. All Russia are saying are that as part of a defensive shield, Danish ships now become a legitimate military target. That seems reasonable.

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Originally Posted by Optimistic Nick wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 12:13

What does concern me is this

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Originally Posted by Peace Frog wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 11:55

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Thinly veiled "Wir müssen die Juden ausrotten" post imo...

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Originally Posted by Barry Dragon wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 13:08

Care to explain why oil being traded in other currencies would cripple America? It is already traded in other currencies, admittedly not nearly as much as is in USD. I am intrigued as to the reason why and the relevance?

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Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 13:00

Just research the Petrodollar.

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Originally Posted by Barry Dragon wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 12:40

Hi Gluey, care to explain aswell, surely if both of you have heard this you can explain it for me?

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Basically America wages war (economic or physical) with any country who tries circumvent this agreement.

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Originally Posted by heath/ccfc wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 13:27

that reads differently from what Nick has alluded to. All Russia are saying are that as part of a defensive shield, Danish ships now become a legitimate military target. That seems reasonable.

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Originally Posted by Mrs Steve R wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 13:23

What does concern me is this

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Originally Posted by heath/ccfc wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 13:17

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Originally Posted by Optimistic Nick wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 12:13

"Denmark will become a part of the threat against Russia. It will be less peaceful, and relations with Russia will be damaged," Vanin said, adding that Russia has missiles which would be able to penetrate the future missile shield.

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Originally Posted by Peace Frog wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 11:55

Russia are assuming the shield is offensive - as if a bloc have no rights to prepare defensive capabilities - of course they do. That doesn't mean they intend to go on the offensive.

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Controlled opposition has to speak some truth or nobody would ever follow them, sadly I think that's what he is, I have come full circle on the conspiracy trail and it's not what people think it is.

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Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 13:34

Care to explain why oil being traded in other currencies would cripple America? It is already traded in other currencies, admittedly not nearly as much as is in USD. I am intrigued as to the reason why and the relevance?

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Originally Posted by Barry Dragon wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 13:08

Just research the Petrodollar.

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Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 13:00

Hi Gluey, care to explain aswell, surely if both of you have heard this you can explain it for me?

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Originally Posted by Barry Dragon wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 12:40

You'll have to go back to the early 70's and the ending of the Bretton Woods system.

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Me thinks that you are trying to find something and make a mountain out of a mole-hill. Yes there will be some problems if there is a big sell off of USD, but there are balancing factors that will counter the effects. Yes the states know the wealth of oil can create power and they want to stem that. But threats come and go, not long ago the BRICS nations were about to become great powers, but inflation has led to a near collapse of that.

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Originally Posted by Barry Dragon wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 13:47

Care to explain why oil being traded in other currencies would cripple America? It is already traded in other currencies, admittedly not nearly as much as is in USD. I am intrigued as to the reason why and the relevance?

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Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 13:34

Just research the Petrodollar.

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Originally Posted by Barry Dragon wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 13:08

Hi Gluey, care to explain aswell, surely if both of you have heard this you can explain it for me?

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Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 13:00

You'll have to go back to the early 70's and the ending of the Bretton Woods system.

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Originally Posted by Barry Dragon wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 12:40

From Wikipedia "In an effort to prop up the value of the dollar, Richard Nixon negotiated a deal with Saudi Arabia that in exchange for arms and protection they would denominate all future oil sales in U.S. dollars. Subsequently, the other OPEC countries agreed to similar deals thus ensuring a global demand for U.S. dollars and allowing the U.S. to export some of its inflation."

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http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-01-14/russia-just-pulled- itself-out-petrodollar

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Originally Posted by Barry Dragon wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 13:47

Care to explain why oil being traded in other currencies would cripple America? It is already traded in other currencies, admittedly not nearly as much as is in USD. I am intrigued as to the reason why and the relevance?

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Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 13:34

Just research the Petrodollar.

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Originally Posted by Barry Dragon wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 13:08

Hi Gluey, care to explain aswell, surely if both of you have heard this you can explain it for me?

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Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 13:00

You'll have to go back to the early 70's and the ending of the Bretton Woods system.

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Originally Posted by Barry Dragon wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 12:40

From Wikipedia "In an effort to prop up the value of the dollar, Richard Nixon negotiated a deal with Saudi Arabia that in exchange for arms and protection they would denominate all future oil sales in U.S. dollars. Subsequently, the other OPEC countries agreed to similar deals thus ensuring a global demand for U.S. dollars and allowing the U.S. to export some of its inflation."

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Recession comes in cycles, there are clear rhythms. Its just a temporary blip. Think long term. China has the fastest growing economy in the world, and its not based upon debt. Brasil is already the 7th biggest economy based on GDP and its potential is HUGE. Of the emerging economies, India has a population of over a billion and will follow the path China has taken, Africa is pretty much untapped in terms of resource and Labour. So a single trade currency is nothing to worry the US at all really... http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/hehe.gif

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Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 13:54

Care to explain why oil being traded in other currencies would cripple America? It is already traded in other currencies, admittedly not nearly as much as is in USD. I am intrigued as to the reason why and the relevance?

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Originally Posted by Barry Dragon wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 13:47

Just research the Petrodollar.

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Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 13:34

Hi Gluey, care to explain aswell, surely if both of you have heard this you can explain it for me?

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Originally Posted by Barry Dragon wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 13:08

You'll have to go back to the early 70's and the ending of the Bretton Woods system.

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Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 13:00

From Wikipedia "In an effort to prop up the value of the dollar, Richard Nixon negotiated a deal with Saudi Arabia that in exchange for arms and protection they would denominate all future oil sales in U.S. dollars. Subsequently, the other OPEC countries agreed to similar deals thus ensuring a global demand for U.S. dollars and allowing the U.S. to export some of its inflation."

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Originally Posted by Barry Dragon wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 12:40

Basically America wages war (economic or physical) with any country who tries circumvent this agreement.

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It is merely Russia trying to become the bear it once was. You are all reading into it too much.

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Originally Posted by Mrs Steve R wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 13:44

that reads differently from what Nick has alluded to. All Russia are saying are that as part of a defensive shield, Danish ships now become a legitimate military target. That seems reasonable.

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Originally Posted by heath/ccfc wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 13:27

What does concern me is this

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Originally Posted by Mrs Steve R wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 13:23

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Originally Posted by heath/ccfc wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 13:17

"Denmark will become a part of the threat against Russia. It will be less peaceful, and relations with Russia will be damaged," Vanin said, adding that Russia has missiles which would be able to penetrate the future missile shield.

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Originally Posted by Optimistic Nick wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 12:13

Russia are assuming the shield is offensive - as if a bloc have no rights to prepare defensive capabilities - of course they do. That doesn't mean they intend to go on the offensive.

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Originally Posted by Peace Frog wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 11:55

this seems like posturing from a regime that perhaps is beginning to crack under the strain of the economic reality we find ourselves in today.

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Are you saying the conspiracy theorists are all a conspiracy? http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/hehe.gif

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Originally Posted by Barry Dragon wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 14:05

Care to explain why oil being traded in other currencies would cripple America? It is already traded in other currencies, admittedly not nearly as much as is in USD. I am intrigued as to the reason why and the relevance?

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Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 13:54

Just research the Petrodollar.

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Originally Posted by Barry Dragon wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 13:47

Hi Gluey, care to explain aswell, surely if both of you have heard this you can explain it for me?

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Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 13:34

You'll have to go back to the early 70's and the ending of the Bretton Woods system.

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Originally Posted by Barry Dragon wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 13:08

From Wikipedia "In an effort to prop up the value of the dollar, Richard Nixon negotiated a deal with Saudi Arabia that in exchange for arms and protection they would denominate all future oil sales in U.S. dollars. Subsequently, the other OPEC countries agreed to similar deals thus ensuring a global demand for U.S. dollars and allowing the U.S. to export some of its inflation."

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Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 13:00

Basically America wages war (economic or physical) with any country who tries circumvent this agreement.

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Originally Posted by Barry Dragon wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 12:40

Strange as these days countries are taking part in a different currency wars. Trying to weaken their currencies. Japan, America, Britain, Sweden, and now Europe are all at it. Its called Quantitative Easing. Weaken the currency to help the economy.

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I haven't stated any opinion on this topic, I have merely provided background information http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/smiley.gif

I'm not seeing much here that suggests we shouldn't be shitting ourselves.

http://youtu.be/rsbpZYf0Eo0

It's ok for the US (NATO) to flex its muscles in old Warsaw Pact/Soviet territory though.
Reagans speech about the Soviet Union being the Evil Empire was total bollocks, I think the US are worse.

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Originally Posted by Richyrich wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 14:11

that reads differently from what Nick has alluded to. All Russia are saying are that as part of a defensive shield, Danish ships now become a legitimate military target. That seems reasonable.

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Originally Posted by Mrs Steve R wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 13:44

What does concern me is this

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Originally Posted by heath/ccfc wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 13:27

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Originally Posted by Mrs Steve R wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 13:23

"Denmark will become a part of the threat against Russia. It will be less peaceful, and relations with Russia will be damaged," Vanin said, adding that Russia has missiles which would be able to penetrate the future missile shield.

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Originally Posted by heath/ccfc wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 13:17

Russia are assuming the shield is offensive - as if a bloc have no rights to prepare defensive capabilities - of course they do. That doesn't mean they intend to go on the offensive.

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Originally Posted by Optimistic Nick wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 12:13

this seems like posturing from a regime that perhaps is beginning to crack under the strain of the economic reality we find ourselves in today.

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Originally Posted by Peace Frog wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 11:55

This is exactly what I'm alluding to. I cannot see why Denmark becomes a legitimate target for being nuked, just for having the audacity to prepare defenses against missile attack.

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Not as such but sort of, it's highly lead imo, Russell Brand and his Marxist buddies for example, look how much air time he gets in the press and on the BBC, I think there is a reason for that.

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Originally Posted by Optimistic Nick wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 14:33

I'm not seeing much here that suggests we shouldn't be shitting ourselves.

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The politicians are just going through the motions.

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Originally Posted by Mrs Steve R wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 14:42

that reads differently from what Nick has alluded to. All Russia are saying are that as part of a defensive shield, Danish ships now become a legitimate military target. That seems reasonable.

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Originally Posted by Richyrich wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 14:11

What does concern me is this

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Originally Posted by Mrs Steve R wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 13:44

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Originally Posted by heath/ccfc wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 13:27

"Denmark will become a part of the threat against Russia. It will be less peaceful, and relations with Russia will be damaged," Vanin said, adding that Russia has missiles which would be able to penetrate the future missile shield.

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Originally Posted by Mrs Steve R wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 13:23

Russia are assuming the shield is offensive - as if a bloc have no rights to prepare defensive capabilities - of course they do. That doesn't mean they intend to go on the offensive.

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Originally Posted by heath/ccfc wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 13:17

this seems like posturing from a regime that perhaps is beginning to crack under the strain of the economic reality we find ourselves in today.

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Originally Posted by Optimistic Nick wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 12:13

This is exactly what I'm alluding to. I cannot see why Denmark becomes a legitimate target for being nuked, just for having the audacity to prepare defenses against missile attack.

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Originally Posted by Peace Frog wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 11:55

I probably shouldn't worry too much, they are probably just pissed.

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Agree, Brand's rise in popularity has been through anti establishment social media rants. Now the BBC et-al notice that his following is in tune and therefor carries public opinion (in general terms) they will use him and the likes of him to present a fair and balanced argument, appearing neutral in our 'free speech' society. He's another worm that turned http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/thumbup.gif

Clearly it's all a bit more complicated than Russia just behaving as the aggressor which is how our media typically portray the unfolding situation.

That said, even if Putin is not entirely the pantomime villain that he is presented to us as, he does come across as a bullying and dangerous leader lost in his own machismo.

There is also, of course, plenty of hypocrisy from some western leaders decrying Russian imperialism on the one hand yet presiding over bloody military occupations themselves. Campaigns that were framed as the worthy sounding "War on Terror" but were actually, in the main, imperial wars.

These are dangerous and complex times. Russia is an unpredictable beast and NATO is now so far away from what it was originally intended to be that difficult situations always look likely to escalate.

I wish that we had in place a British government that radically reviewed it's place on the world stage.

The Russians are doing what they have to do in face of Western aggression.
As others have alluded, blame the scumbag Yanks.

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Originally Posted by Mick the Miller wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 15:10

The Russians are doing what they have to do in face of Western aggression.

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Originally Posted by NECS wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 15:45

The Russians are doing what they have to do in face of Western aggression.

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Originally Posted by Mick the Miller wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 15:10

As others have alluded, blame the scumbag Yanks.

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I can see the russians point on this. A missile defence system is effectively offensive because if any nuke is ever fired by russia in the direction of the west you can be your dixie jeans that America would be launching theres within minutes. I think Britain and America are both 'pre-emptive first' strike nations? The trident system is a first strike based weapon.

Its more the stupidity of the Dane's though, of course putting anti ICBM systems in the direction of russia will cause a threat and is obviously going to be fundemental to any first strike option for Russisa - knock out the missile defences systems first i imagine would be the modus operandi of the Russians should that frightful day ever come.

All that just to further America's goal of being the World's policeman

Hope we don't go back to the bad old days of the Brezhnev/Reagan/Thatcher era, 3 loons who seemed they would be quite happy to press the button.There was some scary shit going around in the early 80's and it only takes a few psychopathic leaders and the world holds it's breath.

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Originally Posted by Optimistic Nick wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 11:35

Russia is now bullying Denmark with the batshit-crazy threat of nuking their warships if they try to do something to defend themselves against being bombed.

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Originally Posted by Steve the Tea (c) TM wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 16:37

Russia is now bullying Denmark with the batshit-crazy threat of nuking their warships if they try to do something to defend themselves against being bombed.

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Originally Posted by Optimistic Nick wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 11:35

What the actual **** are they playing at? Can the West beat the shit out of them if it came to it?

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Israel will be interesting over the next few years as their Islamic population grows so much quicker than the Jewish one. I can't see the status quo being maintained there in the next couple of decades but I don't see why Russia would want to get involved in that implosion.

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Originally Posted by NECS wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 15:45

The Russians are doing what they have to do in face of Western aggression.

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Originally Posted by Mick the Miller wrote on Mon, 23 March 2015 15:10

As others have alluded, blame the scumbag Yanks.

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I trust Putin more than Obama.

I'm meant to be in Latvia in April but I've decided not to go as I can see it's getting interesting...

If it already owns a quarter of the worlds land mass. Why would it be interested in the a little slither of land in the middle east. A slither of land which is...I think we can all say in hindsight, the founding of which of has caused far more trouble than anyone could have imagine.

Russia has enough of its own problems before getting involved in that basket case