Printable View
If Ian Botham wants out I am staying in
He's a first class ignorant blighty Thatcherite bigot
We as in Wales are fecked without European investment , the valleys will be slaughtered and does anyone seriously think a London centric Tory government will give a shit ?
Pass me some of what some of you guys are smoking , I ain't had a good toke in years
Yes I do think for myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue
1. Great Britain had a Coal Mining industry before the EU (we are still importing coal)
2. Great Britain had a Steel Industry before the EU (we will continue to import steel)
3. Great Britain had a British car industry before the EU
4. Great Britain had a Ship Building industry before the EU
5. Thick Welders like myself could afford to get on the housing ladder before the EU
6. Water, Gas, Rail, Electric were owned by British companies
7. British Nuclear power was owned and controlled by British companies
8. The bankers did not get bailed out before the EU
9. The Gold reserves were not sold off to Pound land before the EU
10. The privatisation of anything that wasn't nailed down didn't start until after joining the EU
11. The distribution of wealth, always obscenely biased, has gone of the scale
12. Youth unemployment is now, and has been for some time following the euro model, where is their future after 40 years of Brussels ?
13. Trade with Europe was plentiful
14. Trade with other parts of the world not subjected to a Brussels rule
During this period of British erosion we are judged to be the best performing economy within the EU, does it not make you wonder how bad it is for many in the other countries of the EU Superstate?
During this period I have been through Labour and Tory governments who both have sat back and allowed
Brussels to suck cash, veto laws, introduce their laws and whilst you casually side line it all against
Tory and labour Governments, there is a common denominator and that is Brussels.
I remember the winter of discontent and much of the bad shite, it wasn't a bed of roses, but they were days that
you knocked your neighbours door and if they had 1/2 a bag of sugar and you had none, you were given some.
The EU aided by Tory and Labour governments have changed peoples mindsets into a more more more society,
2nd holiday, 2nd car, Joe Bloggs owning 5 houses to rent, debt is good, have to be a shareholder, etc. etc.
Thatcher removed the idea of society more than the EU ever could
Surely you are bright enough to know that and we both know you are
Leave Europe and Wales is fecked alongside every other region outside the Tory south east
All of that is the fault of British governments.
Why didn't we put sanctions on the import of cheap Chinese steel like the rest of the EU instead of under cutting out own steel industry?
You've just picked an arbitrary line in history and then blamed everything the uk government has done wrong on the eu, including the fact you used to be able to borrow sugar off your neighbour.
It's more of how materialistic you have become.Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue
Who has become? How materialistic people have become is a global problem. Exiting the eu won't take us back to simpler times when you could leave your front door unlocked and borrow sugar off your neighbour.
Are you basing your vote purely on nostalgia.
I'm sure there are many compelling reasons to vote for the exit. I also don't think you've listed one.
There's no hatred of England here, although I'll give you labour & tory. What do I think? I'm amazed it's been allowed to go to a referendum personally. Nobody knows the inner working of the EU and what the consequences of voting out will be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelsonca61
The fact that Wales receives far more money than we give would mean an out vote could cost us billions. The government could say they'd match what the EU was spending, but they've said that won't happen. I don't buy the 'get our sovereignty back' or the 'EU makes over 50% of our laws' arguments. We in Wales especially have grown accustomed to (until recently) 100% of our laws being made abroad. An out vote isn't going to change that.
so to sum it up, I don't know. Probably leaning towards an IN vote thought.
I think the scariest thing about the referendum is the top political "minds" in the country can't even decide what's best for the UK. Even current and past chancellors seem to be saying opposite things.
If these supposed experts can't agree on what's best for us how can the general public be expect to know what's best?
The whole campaign will be based around xenophobia, propaganda and fear mongering from both sides.
I'm leaning towards staying in but I couldn't put up a coherent argument as to why I think anyone else would beyond the lack of financial help Wales will lose and the fact the human rights act will be abolosihed.
Don't be so hard on yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelsonca61
For me the question boils down to Do you want a United States of Europe. IF yes stay in, if not vote out. A single european state is going to happen the way things are heading. A vote to stay in, certainly a majority, gives those that want this a mandate to try and push it through.
Ingerland won the world cup in 66 but not since. Coincidence? Nah, out out out
The way things are heading? Surely it's heading more towards falling apart than a United States?Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Dragon
The pro-EU propaganda is almost criminal. However, which way to vote? I believe an OUT vote will be better for The UK as a whole .. but an IN vote may be better for Wales.
If we do vote OUT .. at least we will be able to deport foreign criminals and radical hate preachers who are wasting tax payers' money.
Oh ... and we can tell The EU's "human rights" bill (which seem to protect criminals more than victims) to f right off !
I would also add that a vote out is a vote to break up the uk. Whatever happens, Should be interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Dragon
That depends who you believe. Lots of opinions contradicting one another about at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by lardy
The troubles europe are having can be fixed quite easily by a 1 state model. That is why it's heading that way, Europe as is is not a great model, in order for europe to work, it needs to become a federal state. It wont work properly unless a federal state is introduced. So if we vote in, we are voting for 1 state, might be 5 years or 20 years, but that's the way it will go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCFC_Urawa_Reds
What about some of the Out Propaganda, some blatant lies that have been corrected and apologised for.
Dont put out your own propaganda about either side and then criticise propaganda.
That last sentence in the 2nd paragraph is EPIC: "We in Wales especially have grown accustomed to (until recently) 100% of our laws being made abroad. An out vote isn't going to change that."
Certainly, whenever Wales votes, England rules.
Why people vote Labour and Tory is beyond me.
I see all the Labour supporter signs in Pontypridd and, more confusingly, the Conservative supporter signs on grubby semi-detached houses on Manor Way .. and wonder if these people vote this way because they always have (akin to football club loyalty) regardless of whether the policies of the party suit their area/the candidates give a flying f about their area/the candidate/party will actually improve their area.
Looking at Pontypridd and Cardiff North, I would say Labour and The Conservatives have failed both areas.
I wouldn't believe anyone who says a US of E is likely, especially not in those short timescales. Deciding that that is what the vote is really about is barmy imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Dragon
Quote:
Originally Posted by lardy
I am sure those that voted in 1975 never thought that their vote would lead what we have now. But it did. It wasnt what they voted for, but its what it lead to.
Many in europe have called for greater closeness already. The view of europe around the world is that its current model is broken, and the only way to make it work is for a federal government. This is widely held view. Tax revenues needs to be shared around europe when they have a single currency so we dont see Germany profiting off the bad state europe is in, whilst Spain Greece and others struggle. There is no balance. Without a currency to strengthen and weaken with the economy then it will never work without shared tax revenues and more common policy.
Germany and others have called for closer political union. They want a european commissioner to veto members states budgets. Doing so would almost complete the transfer to a federal state. We are not that far away from it, we have a form of a federal state already. Just an incomplete model.
They have powers over movement of people, they have powers over law, they have a single currency (for most states). Only the army and taxes left for them to take, and they want to control how we spend our taxes. That is certainly on the road to a federal state, and there are many who want to accelerate that road.
have a read of this
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics...ropean-britain
Actually, you have demonstrated quite beautifully how little the EU has actually changed things in the UK.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelsonca61
Germany annexing Dutch Military:Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Dragon
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016...a-step-closer/
I agree with much of what you say (yes it surprised me too), to make it work it would inevitably pass more powers to the EU which I don't think is a good thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Dragon
I agree with many of the points on this list of ten but the most important one for me is reguarding democracy, any laws or decision making need to be made in this country for this country, without that I don't think we have any chance of doing what's in our best interests.
http://www.nakedpolitics.co.uk/home/...d-leave-the-eu
Would that be the same if it were a vote for welsh independence?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs Steve R
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs Steve R
I don't know to be honest, it's not something I have thought about, what do you think?Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy31