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Couldn't agree more Bob.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
This referendum campaign has shown just how pathetic our so called leaders are. Neither side are making the case for in or out - it's all just scaremongering and bullshit.
Roll on Friday so we can worry about what really matters.
I agree with the benefits bitQuote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock
thats the issue, the STAY lot are just using " mights and maybe's " and rubbishing the " out "Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Lecter
The Out are telling us about this saving in money terms and pointing out that with more and more countries joining the EU and potentially heading over here for our " better than they have lifestyle and earnings " the risks that brings ( stretching public services are the main issue )
The STAY lot havent really given many facts, as they just do not know what will happen, the trade thing doesnt add up to me, will XXY company stop buying a specific part from ABC company due to us not being in the EU, of course they will not
The election isn't about voting for Farage or Cameron. If it was, I would abstain and, further, would remove myself from the electoral register in protest.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
I am, currently, voting the same way that David Cameron will vote (assuming he isn't a secret brexitier). And, probably, for different reasons than him.
And the Leave campaign has given us solid facts??Quote:
Originally Posted by blue matt
re the "trade thing" the minute we come out, we lose EU grants, we expose ourselves to export tariffs, our goods and services will still have to comply with EU regulations etc
The truth is, NOBODY knows for sure what the outcome is if we leave, do you want to take that chance?
Plus, Matthews gets a vote doesn't he? Therefore his opinion is a legitimate as anyone else's.Quote:
Originally Posted by az city
Sorry, what nonsense. I am happy to get swayed by the LEAVE lot. I have listened to and read a lot more from the LEAVE campaign than the REMAIN because I am voting to stay but can be persuaded by a decent argument and some decent facts from the Leave camp. And, no facts have come out that haven't been tailored to scaremonger people. The ridiculousness of a claim that there will be 5.23 m migrants, the fact that they merely quote what the UK spends on the EU, but neglect to mention what comes in from the EU (yes, I know we are a NET contributor, but it really isn't costing the UK £350m per day).Quote:
Originally Posted by blue matt
Neither side has given many facts. Both sides have been scaring the electorate to vote one way or the other. If the Leave camp can come up with some cast iron facts that show that the UK will definitely be better out than in and they drop the "Little Englander" style they are using presently - they'll get my vote.
Farage was warning of riots caused by mass immigration a few weeks ago - is that a fact?
I didn't say it was about individuals, but I've yet to come across one among the most prominent members of either cause that has inspired me to vote for their's - quite the opposite actually.
It looks like I'm in a similar position to you in that I'm a remain voter by instinct, but I've found their campaign to be dismal, negative and lacking the qualities needed to fire people towards supporting staying in - if anything, it's made me less likely to vote the way I would have done if the referendum had been held a couple of months ago.
Lives in Canada, votes for UK membership of EU. :hehe:Quote:
Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt
This is where I stand. If the Leave camp can convince me that the UK's trade will benefit from being out, then they get my vote. If they can convince me that the country is more secure by voting out, they get my vote. They've been incapable of doing that until now and, likewise, the Stay camp has done nothing to convince me that staying in is for the long-term benefit of the country.Quote:
Originally Posted by TH63
However, I have to vote, so I vote for the devil I know, and not the devil I don't.
He's a UK citizen - same as you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelsonca61
He has dual nationality, he's not the same as me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt
I've said previously, if the vote on 23rd June was to join the EU (having never been members), I'd vote to stay out. It sounds daft, but both sides are useless and neither has convinced me that change is necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
I think it's only an issue because his viewpoint differs from you. He has the right to vote, he is a UK citizen, he is entitled to his opinion regardless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelsonca61
Depends if the tariffs imposed on UK goods will make ABC's stuff more expensive.Quote:
Originally Posted by blue matt
It's an issue to me because, he is voting on an issue regarding my future and direction of the UK, but he chose to leave the UK and take citizenship of another country, he is entitled to his opinion but he also gets a vote. Just because I've been to Canada, I wouldn't want to vote on, if Ontario, would like their dustbins collected monthly instead of weekly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt
There we are. At least somebody has swallowed Cameron's "The end is nigh" doom mongering.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richyrich
But Matthews "hasn't just been" to the UK has he? He's lived here. In fact he employs a number of people here. He has retained his British citizenship. Comparing his position as someone who lived/employs/pays taxes in the UK to yours as an infrequent tourist to a country is a false dichotomy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelsonca61
So, can we say that you have swallowed Farage's "The End is Nigh" doom-mongering as well then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhiw-Blue
What makes ex-pats spongers if they have contributed to a pension like the rest of us?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock
Whilst comparing an opinion of someone worth 2.03 billion and rising, to a John Doe UK citizen. :hehe:Quote:
Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt
For the record, I have a high regard for him and what he has achieved during his life as someone who was born in Wales, but the regards stops there regarding his legality to vote. You see so many ex pats on here eulogising regarding Wales but they f***ed off :hehe:
OK.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock
Person A. Has worked all his life as a carpenter. Started work at the age of 16, worked until he was 66. Paid his NI. Paid his taxes. Saved up a load of money because, from the age of 16, he always had the dream of living in Spain. Retires, and moves to Spain. Draws on his pension (that he paid for through NI).
Person B. Has also worked all his life as a carpenter. Started work at the age of 16, worked until he was 66. Paid his NI, paid his taxes, didn't save for a retirement home in Spain because he quite likes the wet dreary UK weather. Retires. Draws on the pension that he has paid for through his NI.
Which one is the sponger and why?
And you were the one who stated off comparing your situation with that of Terry Matthews. You can't cry foul now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelsonca61
You could quite easily move to Canada - and retain your right to vote in the UK. Matthews has a vested interest - he has a number of businesses and employees based in the UK. The referendum affects him as much as it does you - albeit for different reasons. The fact he has £2bn, you have £100 and I have a debt for £20,000 is nothing to do with it.
His employees have a right to vote, thus this is irrelevant, I have a £100 this is irrelevant, you may have a debt this is irrelevant (well regarding the vote!!!).Quote:
Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt
So you agree his £2bn of wealth is irrelevant. Thanks. You were comparing your time in Canada with his time in the UK. I'm guessing you didn't live for decades in Canada, and I'm also guessing you're not a Canadian citizen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelsonca61
Matthews owns businesses in Wales, he is a UK citizen, he has a vote, he has an opinion. So what's the problem?