I accept the gulf in class but mistakes, mistakes, and more mistakes !!

Listening to Bellamy on the debate special earlier this week talking about football philosophy, director of football.etc. really excites me but only a fool would think he can just take over from Warnock and be an instant success.

He said he demanded a director of football at Oxford and that’s one of the reasons he didn’t go there in the end.

He said he doesn’t want to be dealing with owners, contracts. Etc as his job would be to prepare he team for the weekend. He said be must have that buffer between him and the owner. Wether that was a message to Tan I don’t know but he said the Director Of Football must be on the same page as him philosophy wise which would rule out Warnock for starters.

It was very interesting.

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Originally Posted by thehumblegringo

I agree entirely with most of the points you make in this thread especially about where we go as a club when Warnock steps down but I disagree with you regarding Murphy, I feel for the poor lad. Gone are the days when you give the ball to a Jimmy Johsnton or a George Best and say go on lad take them dancing, teams in this day and age create overloads and create one v one situations. Not us, we get the ball to Murphy or Hoilett and say take them all on, or win us a free kick or throw in. It's just not good enough for this level.

There's no excuse for our lack of imagination when you see teams in the championship doing it week in week out. Leeds, Norwich, and many other championship clubs are showing the value of having progressive managers and are a joy to watch.

I honestly believe that if Warnock had Barcelona's squad he'd still ask them to play in right areas. I've heard him say this when asked what he'd do if he managed England.

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Hoillett and Murphy are both struggling from the off lately. It's as if they accept early on games that they aren't going to beat the full back[s]. I actually think both Mendez-lang and Harris are better options at present..

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

I certainly believe that we could change style and try to play through teams although i'm not sure that the players you've mentioned could do it consistently although they're certainly much better players than they're showing at the moment. I've got to honest and say that i don't really rate Arter, i can't see what other supporters can, apart from a willingless to run, his general play is poor and his anticipation is terrible. Murphy makes some poor decisions and his delivery at times is dreadful and he seems intent on trying to take his man on at every opportunity, when it would be easier to start again-maybe he's being told to play that way. Hoilett is a much better player when he picks the ball up in a deep position, he has a bit of vision and his movement is good, he's not great with his back to goal. I think that Reid, Camarasa and Zohore have more to offer, there's a footballing brain or two amongst those three, it's got to be about giving them the platform and freedom to express that, and the support that goes with it. Tomlin........I just don't know.....

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I tend to agree about Arter.
One big drawback City have to playing a more passing style of football is that none of our back four can play out of defence with confidence. Yes, when we are losing and the other team drops off there's loads of space but more most of the game we cannot build a move from the back. Even the weakest Prem. sides and probably half the Championship sides have the ability to do this...

I think I'm slightly more sympathetic regarding the way we play than some in this thread. but I do think that when we are bad, we look the worst team in this division by a distance and when we are good we play like a lower league side which pulls off a giant killing act. Our season has been set up on the premise that we're just a bunch of hicks from the sticks who have no right to be in a league like the Premier, when, in reality, in terms of size of club and city, potential support and spending power. we should certainly have spent a lot more than two seasons in the top flight in the past fifty seven years - maybe we're not a Everton, West Ham, Newcastle "second tier of the Premier League club, but there are eight clubs, at least, in the division this year that we really should be looking at as equals and not some side to aspite to being.

Just like a "footballing side" that falls apart when opponents press them and get in their face, I don't believe you can ensure consolidation, or even survival, in the Premier League without the ability to retain possession and pass the ball to a decent standard - the stats show that we are the worst in the division at doing this. I believe the way we play can be a culure shock to some in this league and we have proved that we can win home sides against the weaker teams. However, after Boxing Day, every side we play will have come up against us once before and will know exactly what they will be up against, because we don't have the ability to change our approach to meet different challenges. We will be playing plenty of sides in and around the drop zone away from home in the coming months and, based on what we've seen so far, we have no capability of taking command on opponent's grounds unless we have a one man advantage - I think we will be able to pick up the odd home win here and there while playing like we have done in the second half of the season, but we need to show much, much more away from home.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I think I'm slightly more sympathetic regarding the way we play than some in this thread. but I do think that when we are bad, we look the worst team in this division by a distance and when we are good we play like a lower league side which pulls off a giant killing act. Our season has been set up on the premise that we're just a bunch of hicks from the sticks who have no right to be in a league like the Premier, when, in reality, in terms of size of club and city, potential support and spending power. we should certainly have spent a lot more than two seasons in the top flight in the past fifty seven years - maybe we're not a Everton, West Ham, Newcastle "second tier of the Premier League club, but there are eight clubs, at least, in the division this year that we really should be looking at as equals and not some side to aspite to being.

Just like a "footballing side" that falls apart when opponents press them and get in their face, I don't believe you can ensure consolidation, or even survival, in the Premier League without the ability to retain possession and pass the ball to a decent standard - the stats show that we are the worst in the division at doing this. I believe the way we play can be a culure shock to some in this league and we have proved that we can win home sides against the weaker teams. However, after Boxing Day, every side we play will have come up against us once before and will know exactly what they will be up against, because we don't have the ability to change our approach to meet different challenges. We will be playing plenty of sides in and around the drop zone away from home in the coming months and, based on what we've seen so far, we have no capability of taking command on opponent's grounds unless we have a one man advantage - I think we will be able to pick up the odd home win here and there while playing like we have done in the second half of the season, but we need to show much, much more away from home.

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In our circa 100 years of league football we've been a badly run club for the best part. Even though the current owners have 'steadied the ship' in recent seasons I doubt that we would be any better than mid-table in the Championship were it not for Warnock.

Walking into the ground at 5.25pm on Saturday the 'crackle' of atmospheric electricity that games like this generate hit me immediately. I've said it before, the place FEELS like a Premiership club, more so than Palace, Burnley, Huddersfield, Fulham, Watford, Brighton, Bournemouth, but sadly our playing strength isn't. As I said to the chap next to me during the game, what a shame that we weren't just 25% better and able to make a game of it...

We just don't have anywhere near enough quality. Plain and simple. We're going to finish last. Again. Because either the manager or the owner or both have failed to equip the the team to compete consistently or even inconsistently to the bare minimum required at this level.

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Originally Posted by NYCBlue

We just don't have anywhere near enough quality. Plain and simple. We're going to finish last. Again. Because either the manager or the owner or both have failed to equip the the team to compete consistently or even inconsistently to the bare minimum required at this level.

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Despite all what I've said in being critical, I'm aware that there's a context to everything. Maybe there isn't another manager in the world who could have achieved what Warnock has since he's been here.

We were a club that was dying on its feet with a completely divided fan base whose dialogue was only about shirt colour. He has come in and managed upwards as well as down to create a unity that hasn't been seen at our club since maybe Eddie May.

Yes I would love us to play like Man City but we are where we are and we are who we are. Malky made the mistake of chasing unrealistic targets like Wanyama and Oscar Cardozo and look where that took us.

I'd like to think we've learned from our mistakes of last time and will be on a far more stable footing if we go down than last time. I don't really want to have a "restructuring" like Swansea (who spent 7 years in the top flight) if we go down but we have spent very little money and with very little quality Warnock has still got us out of the bottom 3 at Christmas so hat's off to the guy.

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Originally Posted by thehumblegringo

Despite all what I've said in being critical, I'm aware that there's a context to everything. Maybe there isn't another manager in the world who could have achieved what Warnock has since he's been here.

We were a club that was dying on its feet with a completely divided fan base whose dialogue was only about shirt colour. He has come in and managed upwards as well as down to create a unity that hasn't been seen at our club since maybe Eddie May.

Yes I would love us to play like Man City but we are where we are and we are who we are. Malky made the mistake of chasing unrealistic targets like Wanyama and Oscar Cardozo and look where that took us.

I'd like to think we've learned from our mistakes of last time and will be on a far more stable footing if we go down than last time. I don't really want to have a "restructuring" like Swansea (who spent 7 years in the top flight) if we go down but we have spent very little money and with very little quality Warnock has still got us out of the bottom 3 at Christmas so hat's off to the guy.

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I get your point, but surely another 25 million wouldn't have broken the club?

Eric, we do not possess the quality to take the sting out of the game when we are struggling.
When Man It's lost the ball we managed to give it back to them within 2 passes.
We are not a passing-footballing team

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

In our circa 100 years of league football we've been a badly run club for the best part. Even though the current owners have 'steadied the ship' in recent seasons I doubt that we would be any better than mid-table in the Championship were it not for Warnock.

Walking into the ground at 5.25pm on Saturday the 'crackle' of atmospheric electricity that games like this generate hit me immediately. I've said it before, the place FEELS like a Premiership club, more so than Palace, Burnley, Huddersfield, Fulham, Watford, Brighton, Bournemouth, but sadly our playing strength isn't. As I said to the chap next to me during the game, what a shame that we weren't just 25% better and able to make a game of it...

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Agree with you completely in all of that apart from the bit about Warnock - I'm not totally convinced about him being solely responsible for us being in the Premier League rather than halfway up the Championship.