How long for the club to change playing style?

Can I put forward this suggestion….A bit of success led to Warnock turning to attritional football. The last promotion season we started the season wonderfully under Warnock, the Villa and Sheffield United home games and, indeed, the win at Molineux saw us play some great stuff. Mendez-Laing & Hoilett terrorising defenders, Ralls controlling midfield (and scoring) even Zohore performing well. It was as though as soon as Warnock realised we could possibly get promotion he put the brakes on the entertainment and went down the solid/turgid 1-0 route. It worked though and we went up, should Warnock have bowed out gracefully then? Yes, in my opinion. Our entertaining start to that season showed that we did have the players to shine and we were ripe and attractive for a go ahead younger manager. The start to that season is still one of my favourite times following the City. So I reckon people who say players can’t change or be changed maybe incorrect, Warnock certainly changed the group.

Due to cost ( ie better skilled players and modern managers are costly ) , playing style consistent though every age level which would also cause churn and cost .

I would say you would need a long term plan and a huge turnaround in players , and coaches , 2 to 3 years at minimum if your lucky .

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Originally Posted by splott parker

Can I put forward this suggestion….A bit of success led to Warnock turning to attritional football. The last promotion season we started the season wonderfully under Warnock, the Villa and Sheffield United home games and, indeed, the win at Molineux saw us play some great stuff. Mendez-Laing & Hoilett terrorising defenders, Ralls controlling midfield (and scoring) even Zohore performing well. It was as though as soon as Warnock realised we could possibly get promotion he put the brakes on the entertainment and went down the solid/turgid 1-0 route. It worked though and we went up, should Warnock have bowed out gracefully then? Yes, in my opinion. Our entertaining start to that season showed that we did have the players to shine and we were ripe and attractive for a go ahead younger manager. The start to that season is still one of my favourite times following the City. So I reckon people who say players can’t change or be changed maybe incorrect, Warnock certainly changed the group.

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I credit Warnock with somehow getting far more out of Zohore than anyone else has. Watching Zohore over the past two or three seasons, it's easy to forget just how good he was in the second half of 16/17 and before he got injured in 17/18 - so much of the dominant football we played in the early weeks of came through Zohore, backed up by Mendez-Laing who, a brief spell at the back end of 18/19 apart, was never the same player for us that he was in his first month or two here.

We also had Gunnar in 17/18 and, although he was never the prettiest of players, our midfield has not been the same since he left - I don't think he was appreciated by City fans, myself included, as much as he should have been.

Do you want entertainment or winning?

If you want both it’ll cost you a few £100m players.

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Due to cost ( ie better skilled players and modern managers are costly ) , playing style consistent though every age level which would also cause churn and cost .

I would say you would need a long term plan and a huge turnaround in players , and coaches , 2 to 3 years at minimum if your lucky .

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And yet Barnsley were, arguably, more physical and more direct than us last season and they came here three months later on Saturday and passed it about much better than us. The obvious conclusion to draw is that Barnsley have a nucleus of adaptable footballers who can adjust to different playing styles, whereas ours find it much harder to do.

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Originally Posted by RonnieBird

Do you want entertainment or winning?

If you want both it’ll cost you a few £100m players.

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What success have we had since Russell Slade arrived playing what you term "winning football"? We got promoted and, as usual, cocked up the home leg of a Play Off Semi Final. People who praise Grand Old Duke of York Warnock's promotion always conveniently forget that, having marched us to the top of the hill, he promptly marched us back down again while spending tens of millions of pounds in the process.

We've spent the best part of £100 million playing so called winning football and we're left with a squad which are able to pass the ball to a team mate ten yards away about five times out of ten.

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Originally Posted by blue lewj

The only thing I have zero patience with is this boring, defensive style of football. It is beyond depressing.

So we need to change but nobody wants to change.
We'll get much the same stuff we've had in recent times if it continues.

People talk of Warnock as though he was thrust upon us. Tan and the board picked him, saw evidence of his crap recruitment and gave him more money. They're not exactly blameless in all this.

They're also a self proclaimed transfer committee until we sign a dud and then all fingers point at the manager. You can't have it both ways.

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I have no doubt this message board would be up in arms if we finished 16th playing half decent football. Harris tried to change things for a kick off and look at what happened there :hehe:.

The transfer committee aren't fit for purpose but hopefully that looks to be changing now. Warnock was very much calling the shots, Dalman and Warnock have said so. You don't appoint Warnock and ask him to play second fiddle.

Warnock's main issues started after we got relegated. Selling BDR and the purchases made were awful decisions. We could have had a real go at changing the team, as half of it got gutted anyway, built the team around Decordova-Reid, Murphy, Ralls, Morrison and then adding footballers.

We are now stuffed, at least in the short term. We have too many players on big money that can play one way. In 2022/23 we might be able to change. People say, how haven't we moved x, y, z on. I think the fact we haven't says it all, we can't.

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Originally Posted by blue lewj

....

a) Pick a forward thinking manager and give him the cash to change it up and he would starrt to do so in the space of a transfer window, as Warnock did.

b) Long story short, it takes a lot longer to move from long ball, route one football if we keep picking long ball, route one managers to replace the last one.

c) The first step to changing this will be when the board realise this and put somebody there to at least try going in this new direction. This shouldn't take as long as many feel with the right man in charge.

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We keep having the same conversation, but...

a) Naïve to think there is money to spend. Not many clubs change style without serious financial backing in transfer window or youth players ready to step up (part of a structure off the pitch ready for change) but several years of short-termism from the board, Warnock's final two transfer windows and then covid largely left us without either. Of course he did re-unite the fanbase and earn us parachute payments so not all bad.

b) I agree. I wasn't happy how quickly Mick got given a new contract and don't want him beyond length of current deal, though of course this gives him three more windows and if he's allowed to act as Warnock did in final two windows (long, expensive contracts creating an unbalanced but limited side) then we'll never get out of this cycle. I don't think that's likely though based on what he's done so far.

c) I disagree. i) the board don't want to go as far as you do, ii) creating a structure ready for development is the starting point and iii) the players we're now bringing in are younger, better on the ball and there is serious intention to bring through youth - we're already on the journey to better football.

How long til we see it on the pitch? Probably only flashes of it this season, more likely from next year and more likely again the year after. Of course that's far too slow but growing clubs have been run well for years before their growth is seen and how many years do you think we've been run well for?

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I credit Warnock with somehow getting far more out of Zohore than anyone else has. Watching Zohore over the past two or three seasons, it's easy to forget just how good he was in the second half of 16/17 and before he got injured in 17/18 - so much of the dominant football we played in the early weeks of came through Zohore, backed up by Mendez-Laing who, a brief spell at the back end of 18/19 apart, was never the same player for us that he was in his first month or two here.

We also had Gunnar in 17/18 and, although he was never the prettiest of players, our midfield has not been the same since he left - I don't think he was appreciated by City fans, myself included, as much as he should have been.

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Gunnar was out injured for most of 2017/2018. Only played 20 games.

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Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa

I have no doubt this message board would be up in arms if we finished 16th playing half decent football. Harris tried to change things for a kick off and look at what happened there :hehe:.

The transfer committee aren't fit for purpose but hopefully that looks to be changing now. Warnock was very much calling the shots, Dalman and Warnock have said so. You don't appoint Warnock and ask him to play second fiddle.

Warnock's main issues started after we got relegated. Selling BDR and the purchases made were awful decisions. We could have had a real go at changing the team, as half of it got gutted anyway, built the team around Decordova-Reid, Murphy, Ralls, Morrison and then adding footballers.

We are now stuffed, at least in the short term. We have too many players on big money that can play one way. In 2022/23 we might be able to change. People say, how haven't we moved x, y, z on. I think the fact we haven't says it all, we can't.

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Who else is going to pay them what we pay them here?. I was looking at transfermarket earlier and the number of Cardiff players on Unique Sports Managements books is frightening. Even though Warnock has gone it seems we are still using them as our scouting network. I was alarmed to see that James Collins and Ryan Giles both represented by them.

All our big earners - Bacuna, Moz, Ralls, Tomlin - represented by them. I sometime wonder if Dalman is pulling down Tans trousers and hes also in it with Warnock and USM.

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Originally Posted by Hilts

Gunnar was out injured for most of 2017/2018. Only played 20 games.

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Didnt he come back for the business end of the season?

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Originally Posted by Hilts

Gunnar was out injured for most of 2017/2018. Only played 20 games.

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He was there when we were playing really well at the start of the season and the games he missed tended to be when we were playing the attritional stuff from about November onwards.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I keep on referring to Neil Harris admitting that City reverted to more of a Warnockball approach in November last year and won five out of six straight away, then proceeded to lose the next half a dozen. The apparent move to more of a passing approach was hard to identify and you would be forgiven for thinking that nothing had changed if there wasn't someone telling you that it had. Nevertheless, Neil Harris said he changed things back again and, for me, that means he had given up on trying to play more football because, for whatever reason, the team weren't managing to do what he wanted.

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The typical pattern in our first dozen or so matches last season was that we'd start off passing the ball around aimlessly, concede the first goal, and then go more direct as we chased an equaliser. We regularly had more than 50% possession of the ball! However, the results were poor and it wasn't surprising that Harris decided we might as well play hoofball straight from kick-off.

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Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa

I have no doubt this message board would be up in arms if we finished 16th playing half decent football. Harris tried to change things for a kick off and look at what happened there :hehe:.

The transfer committee aren't fit for purpose but hopefully that looks to be changing now. Warnock was very much calling the shots, Dalman and Warnock have said so. You don't appoint Warnock and ask him to play second fiddle.

Warnock's main issues started after we got relegated. Selling BDR and the purchases made were awful decisions. We could have had a real go at changing the team, as half of it got gutted anyway, built the team around Decordova-Reid, Murphy, Ralls, Morrison and then adding footballers.

We are now stuffed, at least in the short term. We have too many players on big money that can play one way. In 2022/23 we might be able to change. People say, how haven't we moved x, y, z on. I think the fact we haven't says it all, we can't.

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I'm not sure that we had much choice with Bobby Decordova-Reid. My understanding is that he wanted out since the end of the previous season. Not sure why it took so long to get a deal done though! He actually played for us in the defeat at Wigan.

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

Didnt he come back for the business end of the season?

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He scored a vital winner v Forest late in the season. I think he got injured again up at Hull and that was season over. That Hull win was a massive one.

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Originally Posted by blue lewj

To save time I'm going to guess dml's reply.

Surprise surprise he's slagging the club and board off again....blah blah blah...some reference to him being a proper fan and something at the end about me being a Jack.

How fans like him genuinely enjoy this style of football is a complete mystery. It really is.

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Bore off club basher hhmmm

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Originally Posted by Hilts

He scored a vital winner v Forest late in the season. I think he got injured again up at Hull and that was season over. That Hull win was a massive one.

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Yeah, that Forest goal stands out. I think Fulham were really putting the pressure on at that point.

We were in Bristol for a 40th birthday weekend and erupted in this bar where we were watching the game. Bouncers politely asked us to leave when we finished our drinks. :hehe:

I want Cardiff City to win football matches

They can do it with clown make up on and get deflections off the opposition centre half's arse in the last minute if that's what it takes

Football is no more complicated than that

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

What success have we had since Russell Slade arrived playing what you term "winning football"? We got promoted and, as usual, cocked up the home leg of a Play Off Semi Final. People who praise Grand Old Duke of York Warnock's promotion always conveniently forget that, having marched us to the top of the hill, he promptly marched us back down again while spending tens of millions of pounds in the process.

We've spent the best part of £100 million playing so called winning football and we're left with a squad which are able to pass the ball to a team mate ten yards away about five times out of ten.

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No small achievement to get into the premier league.
We also have some very good professional footballers here and I for one don’t undervalue any of that, notwithstanding the fact that I want to see even more progress.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

I want Cardiff City to win football matches

They can do it with clown make up on and get deflections off the opposition centre half's arse in the last minute if that's what it takes

Football is no more complicated than that

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That’s like saying I want my food to fill me up, but I don’t care what it tastes like.

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

Who else is going to pay them what we pay them here?. I was looking at transfermarket earlier and the number of Cardiff players on Unique Sports Managements books is frightening. Even though Warnock has gone it seems we are still using them as our scouting network. I was alarmed to see that James Collins and Ryan Giles both represented by them.

All our big earners - Bacuna, Moz, Ralls, Tomlin - represented by them. I sometime wonder if Dalman is pulling down Tans trousers and hes also in it with Warnock and USM.

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I wanted to and almost posted this point in another thread recently. It's something that's been on my mind for a while. I'm glad you've raised it.

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Originally Posted by stan butler

Bore off club basher hhmmm

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You've signed in with the wrong login dml me old mucka.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I credit Warnock with somehow getting far more out of Zohore than anyone else has. Watching Zohore over the past two or three seasons, it's easy to forget just how good he was in the second half of 16/17 and before he got injured in 17/18 - so much of the dominant football we played in the early weeks of came through Zohore, backed up by Mendez-Laing who, a brief spell at the back end of 18/19 apart, was never the same player for us that he was in his first month or two here.

We also had Gunnar in 17/18 and, although he was never the prettiest of players, our midfield has not been the same since he left - I don't think he was appreciated by City fans, myself included, as much as he should have been.

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I, for one, appreciated that beard and shaven head look! Fearsome! He's never been replaced and even though he was on the decline, his passion in midfield is something I miss.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

People who praise Grand Old Duke of York Warnock's promotion always conveniently forget that, having marched us to the top of the hill, he promptly marched us back down again while spending tens of millions of pounds in the process.

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The Grand Old Duke of York. Hahahaha, that had me laughing out aloud and nearly spitting my coffee over the keyboard. Nice one Bob, a good comparison :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by blue lewj

You've signed in with the wrong login dml me old mucka.

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Only one account i have unlike you the club basher.