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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Feedback
Who is the song going to cause distress (s5) or provoke violence (s4)?
Here goes groundhog day. One man repeating himself 57 times.
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
To who is it going to cause distress ?
A song about child abuse ?
To people who have been abused
To relatives of people who have been abused
And to people who don't wasnt to hear that kind of distressing song
That's just for a start
Any evidence the victims or family members/friends are in the ground?
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Feedback
Any evidence the victims or family members/friends are in the ground?
Totally irrelevant
South Wales Police say that that song constitutes an offence under the public order act and also outrages public decency
How do you think the Southampton fans doing the aeroplane gesture were charged and convicted when we played them away ?
Sala wasn't there , nor were his family
The club are taking action about this chanting and the information has been passed onto Cardiff City Football Liason officer
Now clearly you would never sing such a chant but if you want to discuss the legal in and outs of offensive chanting or gestures at football matches I would write to your MP or something
I know you know a lot about accountancy but if you are here to defend the right of people to sing that song , however obscene then you will be arguing with yourself . And if you don't think the song fits in with the law then good luck .
The only thing that stops the police arresting people over this is matching recordings of the song being sung by individuals either in person by police officers , or on film . The fact that they are going to find this extremely difficult doesn't mean that offences have not been committed.
Good luck on your legal journey .
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
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Originally Posted by
dembethewarrior
Here goes groundhog day. One man repeating himself 57 times.
That's Feedback for you
You are wrong , as is he .
Enchante
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
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Originally Posted by
dembethewarrior
Not happening.
Hes just repeating himself.
I know
Some people need educating
Some are forever lost
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
I await the first ban.
Have a feeling we will be waiting a while.
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Totally irrelevant
South Wales Police say that that song constitutes an offence under the public order act and also outrages public decency
How do you think the Southampton fans doing the aeroplane gesture were charged and convicted when we played them away ?
Sala wasn't there , nor were his family
The club are taking action about this chanting and the information has been passed onto Cardiff City Football Liason officer
Now clearly you would never sing such a chant but if you want to discuss the legal in and outs of offensive chanting or gestures at football matches I would write to your MP or something
I know you know a lot about accountancy but if you are here to defend the right of people to sing that song , however obscene then you will be arguing with yourself . And if you don't think the song fits in with the law then good luck .
The only thing that stops the police arresting people over this is matching recordings of the song being sung by individuals either in person by police officers , or on film . The fact that they are going to find this extremely difficult doesn't mean that offences have not been committed.
Good luck on your legal journey .
I'm not defending anything sludge, I'm suggesting you may not be correct in your interpretation of the law.
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
"Can I be prosecuted for chanting at football matches? - InBrief.co.uk" https://www.inbrief.co.uk/football-l...football-fans/
"Indecent chanting is more difficult to prove, because the Act does not define what constitutes ‘indecent’ for these purposes. This means cases will be considered on an individual basis and will depend on the facts of each case."
Also..
"Chants which are in poor taste may not be indecent, but chants relating to sexual orientation can be. Homophobic abuse can constitute indecent chanting: a football fan was recently fined for chanting ‘queer’ three times at rival supporters during a football match in Brighton."
The chanting isn't racist, homophobic or discriminating.
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
I'm amazed such nastiness is sung in Scotland, they're usually so well behavoured with little history of offensive insults directed towards others and religious beliefs.
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
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Originally Posted by
Feedback
I'm not defending anything sludge, I'm suggesting you may not be correct in your interpretation of the law.
BBC News - Emiliano Sala: Southampton fans banned for plane taunts
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-50332809
Threatening words or behaviour likely to cause alarm or distress , public order offences
The issue is not whether an offence has taken place , its working together to try and convict individuals
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dembethewarrior
"Can I be prosecuted for chanting at football matches? - InBrief.co.uk"
https://www.inbrief.co.uk/football-l...football-fans/
"Indecent chanting is more difficult to prove, because the Act does not define what constitutes ‘indecent’ for these purposes. This means cases will be considered on an individual basis and will depend on the facts of each case."
Also..
"Chants which are in poor taste may not be indecent, but chants relating to sexual orientation can be. Homophobic abuse can constitute indecent chanting: a football fan was recently fined for chanting ‘queer’ three times at rival supporters during a football match in Brighton."
The chanting isn't racist, homophobic or discriminating.
BBC News - Emiliano Sala: Southampton fans banned for plane taunts
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-50332809
Convicted of public order offences , words actions or behaviour likely to cause alarm or distress
Offences have clearly been committed, it's putting people before the court
It's why offensive , threatening or indecent chanting is so hard to stamp out
It's not that the police , fans groups and the authorities are generally not interested , its just a difficult area to deal with given people have to be recorded saying the words on film and audio matched to cctv
That doesn't mean we do nothing though . There is a club meeting this week . My vibe is the club may start making announcements but I don't know .
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
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Originally Posted by
Feedback
I'm not defending anything sludge, I'm suggesting you may not be correct in your interpretation of the law.
As someone who works with victims of child abuse, I can tell you this chant is awful and anyone at the ground, watching or listening who has been subjected to sexual abuse, and there will be 1000's, will be at best uncomfortable or at the worst re-traumatised with potentially devastating effects.
The Sexual Offences Act doesn't really address the issue of chants at football matches about child abuse - it does though talk about communication with and in front of children and the fact that children will be in the ground and watching while this chant is going on COULD be an infringement of the Sexual Offences Act.
However there are plenty of other laws which do restrict the use of sexual language in public and that is certainly being breeched in this case.
City fans chanting it - just stop. It's childish and pathetic. It may be a 'bit of fun' for morons but for the rest of society, it's not, especially for survivors of abuse and their families.
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Feedback
Any evidence the victims or family members/friends are in the ground?
What a poor argument. Even if there aren't any in the ground, which there undoubtedly will be, that doesn't make the chant acceptable
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
BBC News - Emiliano Sala: Southampton fans banned for plane taunts
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-50332809
Threatening words or behaviour likely to cause alarm or distress , public order offences
The issue is not whether an offence has taken place , its working together to try and convict individuals
I'll ask again, who in the ground is going to be offended by that song being sung?
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
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Originally Posted by
UNDERHILL1927
What a poor argument. Even if there aren't any in the ground, which there undoubtedly will be, that doesn't make the chant acceptable
Sludge was citing POA86, which is about causing distress or perceived harm to an individual.
If no one is distressed etc, then there is no infringement of the law.
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
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Originally Posted by
Feedback
I'll ask again, who in the ground is going to be offended by that song being sung?
ME !
And all those around me.
Anyone attempting to chant those vile words on our coaches is told to shut up or be banned from travelling
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
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Originally Posted by
life on mars
I'm amazed such nastiness is sung in Scotland, they're usually so well behavoured with little history of offensive insults directed towards others and religious beliefs.
:thumbup:
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BLUETIT
ME !
And all those around me.
Anyone attempting to chant those vile words on our coaches is told to shut up or be banned from travelling
So paedophilia disgusts you, but you think beastiality is OK. Got it.
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
The club may speak out and ask fans to stop.
My point is, can they ban them.
I can't be arsed to keep on going because I don't get an answer just people repeating themselves over and over.
I'm happy to wait and see, this groundhog day malarkey is doing my head in tbh.
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
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Originally Posted by
dembethewarrior
The club may speak out and ask fans to stop.
My point is, can they ban them.
I can't be arsed to keep on going because I don't get an answer just people repeating themselves over and over.
I'm happy to wait and see, this groundhog day malarkey is doing my head in tbh.
Yes they can ban them , yes they can be arrested
It's difficult though
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Feedback
I'll ask again, who in the ground is going to be offended by that song being sung?
Anybody
Racist chants don't just offend black people
And songs about child abuse are also in that area
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Feedback
So paedophilia disgusts you, but you think beastiality is OK. Got it.
If someone is offended by child abuse then they can report the song
If someone is offended by bestiality they can do as well
Charging someone is the problem
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Feedback
Any evidence the victims or family members/friends are in the ground?
They don't need to be
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Feedback
I'll ask again, who in the ground is going to be offended by that song being sung?
Anybody , in addition to those affected directly by child abuse
If someone is arrested by a racially motivated public order offences the courts dont care if the abusive words were directed at a black person in the ground
There don't have to be any black people in the ground
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Feedback
So paedophilia disgusts you, but you think beastiality is OK. Got it.
Pray tell, where did I disclose this fact ?