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26-06-23, 07:52
jon1959

Re: Russia

Quote:

Originally Posted by life on mars

Socialism has funded many terrorists and dictatorships , its built on its own weaknesses and failed states throughout history, and yes they can be brutal in pushing its agenda .

I know you struggle with the meaning of words, but this is pure drivel.
29-06-23, 06:31
Heathblue

Re: Russia

Warmongers gonna Warmonger, so little was mentioned about Johnson obeying the USA and sabotaging a peace deal, Biden and NATO continue to put billions of arms into the war effort refusing to even consider a peace deal.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">RFK JR: Ukraine Is Being Sacrificed in a Proxy War Between the US and Russia<br><br>“We could have solved that war. We could have averted it,” attested <a href="https://twitter.com/RobertKennedyJr?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@RobertKenned yJr</a>.<br><br>“The Russians had signed a peace agreement with Zelensky in April of 2022, and the White House actually deployed… <a href="https://t.co/QM7ZgS7au5">pic.twitter.com/QM7ZgS7au5</a></p>— The Vigilant Fox 🦊 (@VigilantFox) <a href="https://twitter.com/VigilantFox/status/1673710581977686016?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 27, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
29-06-23, 10:54
Taunton Blue Genie

Re: Russia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heathblue

Warmongers gonna Warmonger, so little was mentioned about Johnson obeying the USA and sabotaging a peace deal, Biden and NATO continue to put billions of arms into the war effort refusing to even consider a peace deal.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">RFK JR: Ukraine Is Being Sacrificed in a Proxy War Between the US and Russia<br><br>“We could have solved that war. We could have averted it,” attested <a href="https://twitter.com/RobertKennedyJr?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@RobertKenned yJr</a>.<br><br>“The Russians had signed a peace agreement with Zelensky in April of 2022, and the White House actually deployed… <a href="https://t.co/QM7ZgS7au5">pic.twitter.com/QM7ZgS7au5</a></p>— The Vigilant Fox �� (@VigilantFox) <a href="https://twitter.com/VigilantFox/status/1673710581977686016?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 27, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Yes, the US is the strongest party in the 'Five eyes' alliance and the UK often (too often!) follows the lead of the US. However, it's difficult imaging a peace deal right now that would not mean Russia still occupying part of Ukraine that it has invaded, something the Ukranians would not be happy with, having had Russia take two bites out of their sovereign territory in the last decade. Why not concentrate on Russia being the aggressor, the invader of the sovereign territory of another country and the countless deaths they have caused as well as the sheer destruction of cities and infrastructure? What peace deal would Putin accept that doesn't involve him gaining territory that Russia has no business occupying in the first place?
29-06-23, 18:59
Heathblue

Re: Russia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

Yes, the US is the strongest party in the 'Five eyes' alliance and the UK often (too often!) follows the lead of the US. However, it's difficult imaging a peace deal right now that would not mean Russia still occupying part of Ukraine that it has invaded, something the Ukranians would not be happy with, having had Russia take two bites out of their sovereign territory in the last decade. Why not concentrate on Russia being the aggressor, the invader of the sovereign territory of another country and the countless deaths they have caused as well as the sheer destruction of cities and infrastructure? What peace deal would Putin accept that doesn't involve him gaining territory that Russia has no business occupying in the first place?

T.B.G, that Russia is the aggressor here and should pack up and piss off isn’t for debate.
Russia isn’t going to do that, Putin in addition to the mass killing of Ukrainians has also presided over the loss of 1,000’s of Russians, he just isn’t going to say Oh well lets all go home folks.

His gangsters took Crimea in advance of Obama’s gangsters taking it, he got in 1st.

There cannot be any outcome to this other than through dialogue, we currently have British and American missiles in the hands of the American installed puppet, we’ve seen attacks by both sides to the key infrastructure of the other side, we have seemingly a lunatic on one side wanting to get back to the Russia of the cold war, and a senile pervert on the other side who many believe is being handled by the Obama deep state crew and wouldn’t know if he’s had a shit or not, We sort of through the events at the time, have a reverse of the Kennedy Khrushchev scenario, with Russian nukes in Cuba on the door step of America, they talked and eventually it was resolved, talking is needed to end this, Russia isn’t going to cede land taken at this time, maybe, unless America moves east, for the record I’m on the side of the non-aggressor but taking sides from my sofa in Cardiff is as much use as a chocolate teapot. I don’t think it’s conspiracy anymore but there was a peace deal in place, but the warmongers appear to have nuked it!!! Bullies taking land didn’t start in UKRAINE it’s not nice, but it happens, IMO for the Russians to give it back they will need a concession from their opponent’s and concerns would be that the previous Minsk agreements deal was broken by the west, and also admitted that it was just a cover to bargain for time.

I don’t think we are a million ,miles away in who’s the aggressor and who’s reacting to the aggression I just don’t think that giving more weapons is the way forward and that Ukraine unfortunately is going to lose more territory, we do not know if Putin’s eventual successor is going to be less of a 2hat or more hard-line, I do listen to, and like the podcasts involving Colonel McGregor a veteran tank commander, he’s of the opinion that much of the Russian hard liners are pissed off with Putin as he hasn’t just gone in and obliterated Kiev from the get go.

At what point, (and considering that this is a proxy war, with Zelensky having little or no say regarding the outcome)
do the west and NATO say this has to end with a settlement ? or do we stay fully principled hoping that neither side are stupid enough to think this can be resolved say using tactical (sick) nuclear weapons.

This is only a discussion on a football MB, but what would be your line in the sand? How far would you be prepared for it to go ?.

Mine is clear, no more loss of life, a deal in that America makes a concession which means them getting out of UKRAINE however, Russia to withdraw back to their border 1st and that talks of returning Crimea to be on the table with a set period of time a bit like the Hong Kong deal. Pie in the sky but something has to happen as it cannot continue indefinitely.
29-06-23, 19:08
TWGL1

Re: Russia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heathblue

T.B.G, that Russia is the aggressor here and should pack up and piss off isn’t for debate.
Russia isn’t going to do that, Putin in addition to the mass killing of Ukrainians has also presided over the loss of 1,000’s of Russians, he just isn’t going to say Oh well lets all go home folks.

His gangsters took Crimea in advance of Obama’s gangsters taking it, he got in 1st.

There cannot be any outcome to this other than through dialogue, we currently have British and American missiles in the hands of the American installed puppet, we’ve seen attacks by both sides to the key infrastructure of the other side, we have seemingly a lunatic on one side wanting to get back to the Russia of the cold war, and a senile pervert on the other side who many believe is being handled by the Obama deep state crew and wouldn’t know if he’s had a shit or not, We sort of through the events at the time, have a reverse of the Kennedy Khrushchev scenario, with Russian nukes in Cuba on the door step of America, they talked and eventually it was resolved, talking is needed to end this, Russia isn’t going to cede land taken at this time, maybe, unless America moves east, for the record I’m on the side of the non-aggressor but taking sides from my sofa in Cardiff is as much use as a chocolate teapot. I don’t think it’s conspiracy anymore but there was a peace deal in place, but the warmongers appear to have nuked it!!! Bullies taking land didn’t start in UKRAINE it’s not nice, but it happens, IMO for the Russians to give it back they will need a concession from their opponent’s and concerns would be that the previous Minsk agreements deal was broken by the west, and also admitted that it was just a cover to bargain for time.

I don’t think we are a million ,miles away in who’s the aggressor and who’s reacting to the aggression I just don’t think that giving more weapons is the way forward and that Ukraine unfortunately is going to lose more territory, we do not know if Putin’s eventual successor is going to be less of a 2hat or more hard-line, I do listen to, and like the podcasts involving Colonel McGregor a veteran tank commander, he’s of the opinion that much of the Russian hard liners are pissed off with Putin as he hasn’t just gone in and obliterated Kiev from the get go.

At what point, (and considering that this is a proxy war, with Zelensky having little or no say regarding the outcome)
do the west and NATO say this has to end with a settlement ? or do we stay fully principled hoping that neither side are stupid enough to think this can be resolved say using tactical (sick) nuclear weapons.

This is only a discussion on a football MB, but what would be your line in the sand? How far would you be prepared for it to go ?.

Mine is clear, no more loss of life, a deal in that America makes a concession which means them getting out of UKRAINE however, Russia to withdraw back to their border 1st and that talks of returning Crimea to be on the table with a set period of time a bit like the Hong Kong deal. Pie in the sky but something has to happen as it cannot continue indefinitely.

The Ukrainian propaganda machine are also very clever in hiding how many of its servicemen are being injured or killed in the conflict.The actual figures are frightening. This conflict has gone on far to long.
29-06-23, 20:04
cyril evans awaydays

Re: Russia

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWGL1

The Ukrainian propaganda machine are also very clever in hiding how many of its servicemen are being injured or killed in the conflict.The actual figures are frightening. This conflict has gone on far to long.

I forgot how impervious you were to the Ukrainian propaganda machine. What are the actual frightening casualty figures out of interest?
29-06-23, 20:18
Taunton Blue Genie

Re: Russia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heathblue

T.B.G, that Russia is the aggressor here and should pack up and piss off isn’t for debate.
Russia isn’t going to do that, Putin in addition to the mass killing of Ukrainians has also presided over the loss of 1,000’s of Russians, he just isn’t going to say Oh well lets all go home folks.

His gangsters took Crimea in advance of Obama’s gangsters taking it, he got in 1st.

There cannot be any outcome to this other than through dialogue, we currently have British and American missiles in the hands of the American installed puppet, we’ve seen attacks by both sides to the key infrastructure of the other side, we have seemingly a lunatic on one side wanting to get back to the Russia of the cold war, and a senile pervert on the other side who many believe is being handled by the Obama deep state crew and wouldn’t know if he’s had a shit or not, We sort of through the events at the time, have a reverse of the Kennedy Khrushchev scenario, with Russian nukes in Cuba on the door step of America, they talked and eventually it was resolved, talking is needed to end this, Russia isn’t going to cede land taken at this time, maybe, unless America moves east, for the record I’m on the side of the non-aggressor but taking sides from my sofa in Cardiff is as much use as a chocolate teapot. I don’t think it’s conspiracy anymore but there was a peace deal in place, but the warmongers appear to have nuked it!!! Bullies taking land didn’t start in UKRAINE it’s not nice, but it happens, IMO for the Russians to give it back they will need a concession from their opponent’s and concerns would be that the previous Minsk agreements deal was broken by the west, and also admitted that it was just a cover to bargain for time.

I don’t think we are a million ,miles away in who’s the aggressor and who’s reacting to the aggression I just don’t think that giving more weapons is the way forward and that Ukraine unfortunately is going to lose more territory, we do not know if Putin’s eventual successor is going to be less of a 2hat or more hard-line, I do listen to, and like the podcasts involving Colonel McGregor a veteran tank commander, he’s of the opinion that much of the Russian hard liners are pissed off with Putin as he hasn’t just gone in and obliterated Kiev from the get go.

At what point, (and considering that this is a proxy war, with Zelensky having little or no say regarding the outcome)
do the west and NATO say this has to end with a settlement ? or do we stay fully principled hoping that neither side are stupid enough to think this can be resolved say using tactical (sick) nuclear weapons.

This is only a discussion on a football MB, but what would be your line in the sand? How far would you be prepared for it to go ?.

Mine is clear, no more loss of life, a deal in that America makes a concession which means them getting out of UKRAINE however, Russia to withdraw back to their border 1st and that talks of returning Crimea to be on the table with a set period of time a bit like the Hong Kong deal. Pie in the sky but something has to happen as it cannot continue indefinitely.

Your line in the sand is all well and good but it will have no effect on Putin whatsover. Nor does any dialogue.
29-06-23, 20:20
Taunton Blue Genie

Re: Russia

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWGL1

The Ukrainian propaganda machine are also very clever in hiding how many of its servicemen are being injured or killed in the conflict.The actual figures are frightening. This conflict has gone on far to long.

Tell that to Putin and his henchmen.
29-06-23, 20:21
TWGL1

Re: Russia

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

I forgot how impervious you were to the Ukrainian propaganda machine. What are the actual frightening casualty figures out of interest?

As it’s not on the BBC you wouldn’t believe them anyway, so I’d prefer not to waste time engaging with you ( count yourself lucky that I’ve bothered to reply to you on this occasion as well )
29-06-23, 20:24
Taunton Blue Genie

Re: Russia

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWGL1

As it’s not on the BBC you wouldn’t believe them anyway, so I’d prefer not to waste time engaging with you ( count yourself lucky that I’ve bothered to reply to you on this occasion as well )

Of course there's an element of propoganda in order to keep up spirits whena bloody war is causing horrendous casualties. So what?
29-06-23, 20:28
TWGL1

Re: Russia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

Of course there's an element of propoganda in order to keep up spirits whena bloody war is causing horrendous casualties. So what?

Exactly , so what.
29-06-23, 20:29
cyril evans awaydays

Re: Russia

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWGL1

As it’s not on the BBC you wouldn’t believe them anyway, so I’d prefer not to waste time engaging with you ( count yourself lucky that I’ve bothered to reply to you on this occasion as well )

I think the likelihood is that Ukrainian losses in defence of their homeland are really bad. However, you state you know the actual figures. Now we know from previous posts that that is absolute bullshit but if you want to project onto me because you have made yourself look really stupid again I guess that is your right!
29-06-23, 20:33
TWGL1

Re: Russia

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

I think the likelihood is that Ukrainian losses in defence of their homeland are really bad. However, you state you know the actual figures. Now we know from previous posts that that is absolute bullshit but if you want to project onto me because you have made yourself look really stupid again I guess that is your right!

Cyril knows best as always . Now what have you been told about trolling …. Be a good boy
29-06-23, 20:35
cyril evans awaydays

Re: Russia

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWGL1

Cyril knows best as always .

Gosh, doubly lucky you replied, I am truly blessed. Now about those actual figures that you can't find on the BBC. Put up or shut up would be my advice!
29-06-23, 20:36
TWGL1

Re: Russia

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

Gosh, doubly lucky you replied, I am truly blessed. Now about those actual figures that you can't find on the BBC. Put up or shut up would be my advice!

:hehe:
29-06-23, 20:38
cyril evans awaydays

Re: Russia

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWGL1

:hehe:

As I thought, all mouth no trousers. (that's three lucky replies so far by the way)!
29-06-23, 20:39
Heathblue

Re: Russia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

Your line in the sand is all well and good but it will have no effect on Putin whatsover. Nor does any dialogue.

He was waving about a peace agreement a few days ago only for it to be shebanged by Johnson as instructed by Biden.
I would guess that this was achieved by dialogue!!
29-06-23, 20:43
Taunton Blue Genie

Re: Russia

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

Gosh, doubly lucky you replied, I am truly blessed. Now about those actual figures that you can't find on the BBC. Put up or shut up would be my advice!

Legitimate question, TWGL1. Do you claim that you know the actual numbers and what is the source?
29-06-23, 20:50
TWGL1

Re: Russia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

Legitimate question, TWGL1. Do you claim that you know the actual numbers and what is the source?

As you have correctly alluded to, I don’t think anyone knows the exact casualty figures for either side but the whole conflict is becoming increasingly drawn out. ( from what’s reported anyway)
29-06-23, 20:54
Taunton Blue Genie

Re: Russia

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWGL1

As you have correctly alluded to, I don’t think anyone knows the exact casualty figures for either side but the whole conflict is becoming increasingly drawn out. ( from what’s reported anyway)

It's obvious that it is being increasingly drawn out as the Russians are still occupying part of another sovereign state that chooses armed resistance rather than accept illegal occupation and continuing aggression. What exactly is your point?
29-06-23, 20:54
cyril evans awaydays

Re: Russia

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWGL1

As you have correctly alluded to, I don’t think anyone knows the exact casualty figures for either side but the whole conflict is becoming increasingly drawn out. ( from what’s reported anyway)

So when you said "The actual figures are frightening" you didn't have a scooby?
29-06-23, 20:58
Heathblue

Re: Russia

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWGL1

As you have correctly alluded to, I don’t think anyone knows the exact casualty figures for either side but the whole conflict is becoming increasingly drawn out. ( from what’s reported anyway)

We'll never know the numbers either side, without a source or any evidence, with the Air superiority of the Russians and the bombing capability that this brings i think it would be a reasonable assumption that the UKRANIANS are losing fighters at a greater rate than the Russians.
29-06-23, 21:02
TWGL1

Re: Russia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

It's obvious that it is being increasingly drawn out as the Russians are still occupying part of another sovereign state that chooses armed resistance rather than accept illegal occupation and continuing aggression. What exactly is your point?

Same could be said for the other conflicts ongoing at present which receive hardly any media coverage.
29-06-23, 21:05
Taunton Blue Genie

Re: Russia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heathblue

We'll never know the numbers either side, without a source or any evidence, with the Air superiority of the Russians and the bombing capability that this brings i think it would be a reasonable assumption that the UKRANIANS are losing fighters at a greater rate than the Russians.

The U.S. Defence Intelligence Agency think otherwise.
29-06-23, 21:06
Taunton Blue Genie

Re: Russia

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWGL1

Same could be said for the other conflicts ongoing at present which receive hardly any media coverage.

So what is your point? This is like trying to nail jelly to a wall.

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