Greater Manchester Renationalises The Bus Services

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

Got shares in privatised companies have we?

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What an odd comment. I actually support renationalising utilities and rail. To pretend the nationalised industries were 'fabulous' is lunacy. They were cumbersome, bureaucratic monstrosities. Whatever model is used for any renationalised industries shouldn't follow what we had in the 70s. I genuinely thought your comment was sarcasm, hence the smilies.

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Originally Posted by Robin Friday's Ghost

And ****ing Labour presumably for not bring them back into public ownership during their 13 years in office. "Yeah, but that was Blair. This time it will be different under Starmer" 😂

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The cost would be staggering

Care services

Utilities

All too late

The best we can hope for is improvement

The horse has bolted

All down to the Tories

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Originally Posted by Robin Friday's Ghost

Always look for better deals on everything. Half an hour of your time at worst and it can save you a lot of money.

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The whole point is having to do it in the first place

It's idiotic

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

That's your opinion , the ridiculous situation of a shed load of bus and train companies chasing the buck is the current situation

What then happens is the private company becomes the same as the council which previously provided the service

What a complete and utter waste of time and money

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No it doesnt - a private company wins a contract to perform a service for x years. If at the end of the tenure it's deemed to be providing a bad service - then they dont win the next contract term.
It keeps them on their toes and gives the client (us) the ability to change provider and let someone else have a go.

Whereas - if it someone like British Rail - you cant get rid of them, you cant get them to improve ro change you are just stuck with them.

If you want to specifically about rail - then take a look at Japan and the way they operate

Without the typos

No it doesnt - a private company wins a contract to perform a service for x years. If at the end of the tenure it's deemed to be providing a bad service - then they dont win the next contract term.
It keeps them on their toes and gives the client (us) the ability to change provider and let someone else have a go.

Whereas - if it's someone like British Rail and a Govt owned industry etc - you cant get rid of them, you cant get them to improve or change you are just stuck with them.

If you want to specifically talk about rail - then take a look at Japan and the way they operate. JR (JapanRail) is run like a private company even though it's Govt owned. It is required to make a profit etc.
Other train companies are also allowed to operate train services on the same track and are 100% private companies. When I was there - the system worked perfectly.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

I certainly think energy , public transport etc should be state controlled

All this talk about efficiency and competition for the buses and trains had led to higher prices and fewer services

It makes me laugh when tory voters complain about the trains and roads

Don't vote for them then

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It makes me laugh that you actually think that anything nationalised can actually be successful. Successive labour governments ran all the nationalised industries into the ground, costing us, the British taxpayer billions of pounds in the process. And none of them ever actually worked properly either. If you think the current situation is bad, stand back and admire the mess in Manchester in a few years time. PS. Anyone who votes for Labour in Wales after the mess Drakeford has made must be bonkers.

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Originally Posted by dml1954

It makes me laugh that you actually think that anything nationalised can actually be successful. Successive labour governments ran all the nationalised industries into the ground, costing us, the British taxpayer billions of pounds in the process. And none of them ever actually worked properly either. If you think the current situation is bad, stand back and admire the mess in Manchester in a few years time. PS. Anyone who votes for Labour in Wales after the mess Drakeford has made must be bonkers.

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No point - like putting lipstick on a pig, Sludge and Co will always vote Labour regardless as he "hates" anyone that dares to vote for anyone else.

I remember the 70's and the mess created by Labour being controlled by the unions as well as then thinking they could run a business. Dont get me wrong the Tories have plenty of feck ups as well. Both Lab and Con have wrecked the economy.
Drakeford is a living example of what happens when you put the wrong person in charge. After 26 years of Labour being in charge in Wales - you would think we would learn a lesson. But dyed in the wool socialists never admit that. They just want more of the same. Like a perpetual clone Rhodri / Carwyn / Mark and so the cycle continues

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Originally Posted by pipster

No point - like putting lipstick on a pig, Sludge and Co will always vote Labour regardless as he "hates" anyone that dares to vote for anyone else.

I remember the 70's and the mess created by Labour being controlled by the unions as well as then thinking they could run a business. Dont get me wrong the Tories have plenty of feck ups as well. Both Lab and Con have wrecked the economy.
Drakeford is a living example of what happens when you put the wrong person in charge. After 26 years of Labour being in charge in Wales - you would think we would learn a lesson. But dyed in the wool socialists never admit that. They just want more of the same. Like a perpetual clone Rhodri / Carwyn / Mark and so the cycle continues

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Carwyn was a superb leader

Drakeford is hopeless and needs to retire

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Originally Posted by dml1954

It makes me laugh that you actually think that anything nationalised can actually be successful. Successive labour governments ran all the nationalised industries into the ground, costing us, the British taxpayer billions of pounds in the process. And none of them ever actually worked properly either. If you think the current situation is bad, stand back and admire the mess in Manchester in a few years time. PS. Anyone who votes for Labour in Wales after the mess Drakeford has made must be bonkers.

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Well plenty of people think the shit storm of privatisation is even worse

Labour will trounce you tory filth at the election in Wales

Shows how bad the Tories are

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Originally Posted by pipster

No it doesnt - a private company wins a contract to perform a service for x years. If at the end of the tenure it's deemed to be providing a bad service - then they dont win the next contract term.
It keeps them on their toes and gives the client (us) the ability to change provider and let someone else have a go.

Whereas - if it someone like British Rail - you cant get rid of them, you cant get them to improve ro change you are just stuck with them.

If you want to specifically about rail - then take a look at Japan and the way they operate

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You are not very bright

The big energy providers and big phone providers and big two or three train operators are private sector monopolies in all but name

It's a total feck up and stacks of money is being made on shitty service

It's all very well having Japan as an example but the infrastructure is properly funded and the state will step in if it goes tits up

How is the state going to step in now the care service is privatised ?

How's that been working out ?

If you try to defend that I will phone the men in white coats for you and the other mad clown on this thread

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

I pay £30 for broadband, and TV with neflix thrown in as a free extra. Don't need a landline, i hadn't used mine since it was installed.

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That's going to go up after a few years , they all do

Privatisation of the bus services .......reduced services , bus fares rising twice that of wages

The Tories said fares would reduce under competition and services would improve

Water privatisation , bollocks

Energy , bollocks

Rail , bollocks

The care system ......absolute disaster

It hasn't worked

Tories can argue the toss but their electoral strategists know the public want decent public services and that isn't going to be through privatisation

Improve efficiency , improve management are good policies but at the core there needs to be infrastructure and core funding

The private sector ain't interested in that , it just wants quick profit

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Originally Posted by life on mars

I remember the old nationalised industries and yes they worked n times , sadly destroyed by overly greedy unions.

Unions created Thatcher and private sector.

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Greedy unions? They did the work. They deserved their fair share. Transport and utilities don't have to be nationalized just run as not-for-profit companies.

Thatcher created the greed.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

1986 Thatcher opened up the bus services to the evil private sector and it led to a free for all with higher prices and poorer services

Manchester , a fine liberal socialist city is turning back the tide

Would be great if it led to the return of a simplified and improved service for gas , electricity etc

I cannot believe that the numerous energy companies out there have price and service at their foremost minds , its all about money

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Are they on strike yet?

Or all on the sick?

Or working from home (tricky on the bus) :hehe:

I bet the staff breathed a sigh of relief as they can take a rest.

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Originally Posted by NYCBlue

Greedy unions? They did the work. They deserved their fair share. Transport and utilities don't have to be nationalized just run as not-for-profit companies.

Thatcher created the greed.

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Absolutely

It’s where the profits are going that’s the problem. Filling some mega rich shareholder’s drinks cabinet in the Cayman Islands rather than being ploughed back in to the industry for improvement.

Is that Manchester bus, what time is my bus coming?

Thursday, Trevors working from home :hehe:

Real meeting of minds going on in here

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Originally Posted by pipster

Without the typos

No it doesnt - a private company wins a contract to perform a service for x years. If at the end of the tenure it's deemed to be providing a bad service - then they dont win the next contract term.
It keeps them on their toes and gives the client (us) the ability to change provider and let someone else have a go.

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That doesn't apply to the bus industry.

The issue with privatisation for me is pretty simple. Despite record levels of taxation, the government don't appear to be responsible for anything anymore.

The private sector grift cycle seems to be

Win contract
Raise real terms prices
Lower real terms wages
Tell government you can't afford to deliver service
Receive subsidy
Cut back service anyway

It mostly applies to rail and having said that, I have actually been using the buses a fair bit since the price cap was introduced, good value because of the subsidy.

If you have a private sector bus network and two major parties who believe that is the only way then if the service is shit you have no recourse other than to not use it. The issue is that not everybody has that option, so you are left with the most vulnerable using a shit network, and because of the above, the buses won't be profitable and the public will end up subsidising anyway to keep routes running.

What we actually need is less people thinking they need a car to survive, more people using public transport = better public transport.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Carwyn was a superb leader

Drakeford is hopeless and needs to retire

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The Carl Sergeant incident was the end of Jones's reputation.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...inst-him-wales

Jones couldnt even debate Farrage to a winning
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/p...ights-10718381

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Originally Posted by NYCBlue

Greedy unions? They did the work. They deserved their fair share. Transport and utilities don't have to be nationalized just run as not-for-profit companies.

Thatcher created the greed.

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Welsh Water is not for profit. How would you say that's going?

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

The issue with privatisation for me is pretty simple. Despite record levels of taxation, the government don't appear to be responsible for anything anymore.

The private sector grift cycle seems to be

Win contract
Raise real terms prices
Lower real terms wages
Tell government you can't afford to deliver service
Receive subsidy
Cut back service anyway

It mostly applies to rail and having said that, I have actually been using the buses a fair bit since the price cap was introduced, good value because of the subsidy.

If you have a private sector bus network and two major parties who believe that is the only way then if the service is shit you have no recourse other than to not use it. The issue is that not everybody has that option, so you are left with the most vulnerable using a shit network, and because of the above, the buses won't be profitable and the public will end up subsidising anyway to keep routes running.

What we actually need is less people thinking they need a car to survive, more people using public transport = better public transport.

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The egg has to come first though, a good service will be used.

You can't stick a decent train or underground service now though it's too late. The buses will be no good as they can't move fast enough to cover the routes and loops they need to do to be regular. Living along the existing train tracks is the best chance people will have, so Cortyton to town and Caerphilly line in, maybe Danescourt and Radyr other than that you've had it.

What we will end up with is sh!t roads, speed, parking, ulez charges etc as Wales make car travel as miserable as possible and a sh!t transport service to match.

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Originally Posted by Robin Friday's Ghost

What an odd comment. I actually support renationalising utilities and rail. To pretend the nationalised industries were 'fabulous' is lunacy. They were cumbersome, bureaucratic monstrosities. Whatever model is used for any renationalised industries shouldn't follow what we had in the 70s. I genuinely thought your comment was sarcasm, hence the smilies.

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It's hardly an odd comment; many people have shares in private companies, that's how the system works. It's highly likely these same people will baulk at renationalisation as it would be detrimental to their interests.

You obviously have a different memory of the nationalised industries to me. It would be great to get our former assets back in the hands of the people rather than greedy hedge fund managers

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

It's hardly an odd comment; many people have shares in private companies, that's how the system works. It's highly likely these same people will baulk at renationalisation as it would be detrimental to their interests.

You obviously have a different memory of the nationalised industries to me. It would be great to get our former assets back in the hands of the people rather than greedy hedge fund managers

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People investing in nationalised industries - like UK pension company's ? - good luck with that vote winner

Personally I like the Welsh Water modus operandi - not for profit as the core business then they contract out other services to other companies.