Amsterdam Violence

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Tel Aviv fans ripped down a Palestinian flag , burnt down another flag and attacked a taxi the night before

That's according to Dutch police

I would say that irrespective of the idiots involved in hit squad attacks on Jewish fans , that's provocation

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I didn't know the Dutch police had arrested them, that's the sort of info I was looking for.

there is verified evidence that they beat up an Arab taxi-driver, attacked people's houses and tore down Pal flags, chanted disgusting slogans about Arabs and how there aren't any schools in Gaza because there aren't any children, chanted during the minute's silence about Valencia, some of them were IDF, they beat up an Arab in Athens in March, and then got caught by some Dutch Moroccans who'd had enough. They are racist genociders who went there to cause trouble.

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

I didn't know the Dutch police had arrested them, that's the sort of info I was looking for.

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The Dutch police have also filmed tel aviv shouting racist anti Arab songs on the way into the stadium

It's just been on BBC news who did not show it with sound as it was offensive

Several hundred of them , dressed in tel aviv colours

How much of a conspiracy are you looking for ?

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Originally Posted by Jeff Mansfield

there is verified evidence that they beat up an Arab taxi-driver, attacked people's houses and tore down Pal flags, chanted disgusting slogans about Arabs and how there aren't any schools in Gaza because there aren't any children, chanted during the minute's silence about Valencia, some of them were IDF, they beat up an Arab in Athens in March, and then got caught by some Dutch Moroccans who'd had enough. They are racist genociders who went there to cause trouble.

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I am sure most of the tel aviv fans , 3000 I think , were decent but there appears quite a few who were up for it

Sort of suicidal if you ask me but there you go

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Originally Posted by Jeff Mansfield

there is verified evidence that they beat up an Arab taxi-driver, attacked people's houses and tore down Pal flags, chanted disgusting slogans about Arabs and how there aren't any schools in Gaza because there aren't any children, chanted during the minute's silence about Valencia, some of them were IDF, they beat up an Arab in Athens in March, and then got caught by some Dutch Moroccans who'd had enough. They are racist genociders who went there to cause trouble.

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IDF you say, were they the ringleaders?

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Originally Posted by goats

Bizarre to think they think can burn flag and get away with it….talk about piss take. How fkin stupid are they? Local Jews more likely or flew in from Israel? :shrug:

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Both from what is reported. Violence is always to be condemned but there's no doubt these have been very silly people. It looks like the local Ajax ultras didn't step in to help them.

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Originally Posted by Jeff Mansfield

there is verified evidence that they beat up an Arab taxi-driver, attacked people's houses and tore down Pal flags, chanted disgusting slogans about Arabs and how there aren't any schools in Gaza because there aren't any children, chanted during the minute's silence about Valencia, some of them were IDF, they beat up an Arab in Athens in March, and then got caught by some Dutch Moroccans who'd had enough. They are racist genociders who went there to cause trouble.

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All of them? Or were some beaten up just because they're Jewish?

I thought that generally we were against persecuting innocent people because they're associated by race or religion with some guilty people :shrug:

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Originally Posted by delmbox

All of them? Or were some beaten up just because they're Jewish?

I thought that generally we were against persecuting innocent people because they're associated by race or religion with some guilty people :shrug:

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If they were beaten up because they are Jewish that is racist violence and totally indefensible.

If they were beaten up because they were wearing the same club colours, and waving the same flags, as the racist scumbags who attacked an Arab taxi driver and burned a Palestinian flag, that is violence against probably mostly innocent people and totally indefensible.

If they were beaten up because they are racist scumbags who attacked an Arab taxi driver, burned a Palestinian flag, and marched through Amsterdam chanting racist slogans and glorifying the mass murder of children my sympathy has run out!

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Originally Posted by Jeff Mansfield

there is verified evidence that they beat up an Arab taxi-driver, attacked people's houses and tore down Pal flags, chanted disgusting slogans about Arabs and how there aren't any schools in Gaza because there aren't any children, chanted during the minute's silence about Valencia, some of them were IDF, they beat up an Arab in Athens in March, and then got caught by some Dutch Moroccans who'd had enough. They are racist genociders who went there to cause trouble.

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Who is "they"

If anyone beat up a taxi driver, then charge them.

Its not an excuse to go around hunting Jews as seemed to be confirmed last night.

Honest to god wtf.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

If they were beaten up because they are Jewish that is racist violence and totally indefensible.

If they were beaten up because they were wearing the same club colours, and waving the same flags, as the racist scumbags who attacked an Arab taxi driver and burned a Palestinian flag, that is violence against probably mostly innocent people and totally indefensible.

If they were beaten up because they are racist scumbags who attacked an Arab taxi driver, burned a Palestinian flag, and marched through Amsterdam chanting racist slogans and glorifying the mass murder of children my sympathy has run out!

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Agreed x 3

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Who is "they"

If anyone beat up a taxi driver, then charge them.

Its not an excuse to go around hunting Jews as seemed to be confirmed last night.

Honest to god wtf.

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So the attacks on the Arabic taxi driver didn't happen ?

But the attacks on innocent Jewish football fans did ?

You making a complete arse out of yourself here

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Who is "they"

If anyone beat up a taxi driver, then charge them.

Its not an excuse to go around hunting Jews as seemed to be confirmed last night.

Honest to god wtf.

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The police have video footage , shown on the news , of tel aviv fans chanting anti Arab racist abuse

The BBC blanked out the chanting which is surprising as they are normally accused of being pro Palestinian......showing it would have had greater effect

Forget about giving people the excuse to commit acts of violence , this is what happened , along with the burning of a Palestinian flag and another being ripped down

These are facts

No point in wanting fairness if you brush away facts you don't like with suggestions that something didn't happen or pour scorn on it ......IF the police have evidence of a Muslim taxi driver being assaulted ....arrest them ....? ?

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

IDF you say, were they the ringleaders?

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You are even more stupid than you appear

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

The police have video footage , shown on the news , of tel aviv fans chanting anti Arab racist abuse

The BBC blanked out the chanting which is surprising as they are normally accused of being pro Palestinian......showing it would have had greater effect

Forget about giving people the excuse to commit acts of violence , this is what happened , along with the burning of a Palestinian flag and another being ripped down

These are facts

No point in wanting fairness if you brush away facts you don't like with suggestions that something didn't happen or pour scorn on it ......IF the police have evidence of a Muslim taxi driver being assaulted ....arrest them ....? ?

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I've got no sympathy for dickheads who were chanting anti Arab abuse and burning Palestinian flags being beaten up but surely you agree that not all of the Tel Aviv fans would have been guilty of that stuff, and the people beating up the innocent ones just for being Jewish should be condemned?

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

You are even more stupid than you appear

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Somebody said there were IDF members amongst them. I ask what role they were playing, and if that's a stupid question, then I am stupid :hehe:

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Originally Posted by delmbox

I've got no sympathy for dickheads who were chanting anti Arab abuse and burning Palestinian flags being beaten up but surely you agree that not all of the Tel Aviv fans would have been guilty of that stuff, and the people beating up the innocent ones just for being Jewish should be condemned?

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Agree and of course the violence was unnecessary. However, in the circumstances this was a high risk game. Maybe the police could have handled it better, I don't know.

However, there has been worse. Back 20 years ago two Leeds fans were knifed to death for desecrating a Turkish flag. Nobody talked about anti British violence then. With the slaughter in Gaza and Lebanon continuing unabated surely the Tel Aviv fans could have acted with some restraint at least.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Who is "they"

If anyone beat up a taxi driver, then charge them.

Its not an excuse to go around hunting Jews as seemed to be confirmed last night.

Honest to god wtf.

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Jim,

You sometimes offer a reasonable argument, you are going overboard tonight

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Originally Posted by delmbox

I've got no sympathy for dickheads who were chanting anti Arab abuse and burning Palestinian flags being beaten up but surely you agree that not all of the Tel Aviv fans would have been guilty of that stuff, and the people beating up the innocent ones just for being Jewish should be condemned?

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That's to be addressed to someone else as appropriate as it goes without saying

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

Somebody said there were IDF members amongst them. I ask what role they were playing, and if that's a stupid question, then I am stupid :hehe:

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I just lobbed that one in you complete simpleton

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

So the attacks on the Arabic taxi driver didn't happen ?

But the attacks on innocent Jewish football fans did ?

You making a complete arse out of yourself here

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One of Idiot's favourite tactics is to conveniently forget half of a discussion or ignore anything relevant you might point out to him. He then tailors his answer to favour his one-eyed agenda. He's totally deluded.

I take it Israel’s “right to defend themselves” will see their forces overrunning and laying bare sections of Amsterdam in the coming months?

It’s because Netanyahu and co have stretched the meaning of the right to defend themselves beyond breaking point in Gaza that things like this happen.

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Originally Posted by delmbox

I've got no sympathy for dickheads who were chanting anti Arab abuse and burning Palestinian flags being beaten up but surely you agree that not all of the Tel Aviv fans would have been guilty of that stuff, and the people beating up the innocent ones just for being Jewish should be condemned?

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Exactly.

Anyone excusing the random hunting down of people just for being Israeli, Jewish or even being a football fans needs to give their head a very serious wobble.

When you have the Dutch king, prime minister and mayor of Amsterdam describing it as dark antisemitic attacks you know it's been a serious event

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I take it Israel’s “right to defend themselves” will see their forces overrunning and laying bare sections of Amsterdam in the coming months?

It’s because Netanyahu and co have stretched the meaning of the right to defend themselves beyond breaking point in Gaza that things like this happen.

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Be careful what you say; Netanyahu's spies are everywhere; the IDF may consider the Rhondda within their reach for supremacy

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Exactly.

Anyone excusing the random hunting down of people just for being Israeli, Jewish or even being a football fans needs to give their head a very serious wobble.

When you have the Dutch king, prime minister and mayor of Amsterdam describing it as dark antisemitic attacks you know it's been a serious event

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I agree with your first paragraph, there can be no excuse for 'the random hunting down of people just for being Israeli, Jewish or....' being Maccabi Tel Aviv fans.

But I wouldn't be too impressed by the response of some of the Dutch and European public figures who condemned the attacks. There is a clear agenda from the likes of Netanyahu, Von Der Layen and the (Geert Wilders place man) Dutch Prime Minister to promote the idea of existential danger for Jewish people in Europe (not just the ones who burn Palestinian flags and beat up Arab taxi drivers) from rampant anti semitism - also sometimes known as anti Zionism and Palestinian solidarity.

Like all such claims it has a sliver of truth at its heart but is mainly put forward as a means of deflection from the war crimes of Israel and to justify the forever war (victims 70% women and children) across a growing area of the Middle East.

The mayor of Amsterdam does not have a history of promoting that cynical narrative for political ends. She is from the green/liberal left. But even she ignored completely the actions of the Tel Aviv fans that at least partly provoked the violence. Her denunciation of the attacks is fine, but it doesn't tell the whole story. It took the Dutch police to give a full account of what happened - although there are still more details to come out.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

I agree with your first paragraph, there can be no excuse for 'the random hunting down of people just for being Israeli, Jewish or....' being Maccabi Tel Aviv fans.

But I wouldn't be too impressed by the response of some of the Dutch and European public figures who condemned the attacks. There is a clear agenda from the likes of Netanyahu, Von Der Layen and the (Geert Wilders place man) Dutch Prime Minister to promote the idea of existential danger for Jewish people in Europe (not just the ones who burn Palestinian flags and beat up Arab taxi drivers) from rampant anti semitism - also sometimes known as anti Zionism and Palestinian solidarity.

Like all such claims it has a sliver of truth at its heart but is mainly put forward as a means of deflection from the war crimes of Israel and to justify the forever war (victims 70% women and children) across a growing area of the Middle East.

The mayor of Amsterdam does not have a history of promoting that cynical narrative for political ends. She is from the green/liberal left. But even she ignored completely the actions of the Tel Aviv fans that at least partly provoked the violence. Her denunciation of the attacks is fine, but it doesn't tell the whole story. It took the Dutch police to give a full account of what happened - although there are still more details to come out.

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At the end of the day Western governments cynically view support for Israel as a useful ploy for political benefit. They even drag out their Monarch if possible in order to loudly demonstrate their bona fides.