In my mind i want all the time back that i put in.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobh
In my mind i want all the time back that i put in.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobh
One way of looking at he value is:Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
1. There are suggestion out there that the "football operations" are worth around £25m (based on the recent sale valuation of Orient who were sold with no ownership of their own ground).
2. The CCS carried a value of £85m in the last accounts (although it may now have to be written down in value).
3. The value of other property football assets (academy and the land for the new training ground), may be another £5m.
4. There some significant player assets in terms of their potential transfer value compared to the values carried on the Balance Sheet (not least Salech and Robertson).
Overall it's not difficult to come to the conclusion that £120m is not an unreasonable sum and if Tan is actually prepared to sell for £135m as has been suggested then such a valuation is not so outlandish.
As a further comparator Brentford have been seeking investors and have apparently valued themselves at £450m, albeit that comes with EPL income streams they are a club with a small stadium, limited training facilities and no academy structure.
As I say, I'm hardly an expert, but my thinking on the value of the club is guided by what people like the bloke being quoted in this article has to xay on the subject.Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpersforGoalposts
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/...-huge-31929073
This is the £25m based on the sale of Orient part, i.e. valuation of a L1 club with no stadium or property assets.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
The stadium may well have a value of £85m on the Balance Sheet, but it doesn't translate to a £85m value on a sale - nowhere near. It doesn't generate revenue to justify a £85m, and it's an asset that can only be of use to Cardiff City, which naturally reduces its value.Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpersforGoalposts
A more appropriate way to value a stadium for a sale is to think about how much could you sell it to a Private Investor in return for renting it back. I doubt Cardiff could afford/justify annual rent of more than £5m, which makes the sale value something like £40m on standard investor returns.
Only £68m of the debt is owed to Tan. Another £46m is owed to Dalmans outfit. This is also only the “payable within the year” debt. (from accounts & Keith). It’s not just Tan who has to write off debts. Also the stadium is valued at £84m so that has to be factored in.Quote:
Originally Posted by tforturton
The stadium is worth what another party is prepared to pay for it, but the Balance Sheet value is arrived at by a professional valuation, not just a number conjured up out of thin air. Of course, the professional valuers may be wrong!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ger27
Exactly - no one would be willing to pay £85m for Cardiff City Stadium, regardless of what Cardiff City got out of professional valuers. Stoke managed to sell theirs for £80m... the catch being it was to Bet365!Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpersforGoalposts
Also, the stadium's on a 150 year lease rather than being owned outright, which probably affects the real value rather than the accounts value.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ger27
Aren’t you and others guilty of ignoring the debt that he is owed?Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Yes he could sell the shares at a market price but what about the money owing to him and others? Shares that were previously increased to write off debt.
The club would still be saddled with it if not paid off and I feel sure it would become interest bearing which to date it hasn’t been.
Of course he is going to lose money - it’s a question of how much.
Seems there was a bid made, but lower than £85 million.
https://x.com/lawton_times/status/19...289931593?s=61
Gareth Bale consortium makes £40m bid to buy Cardiff City
The offer is expected to be rejected but demonstrates intent from former Wales and Real Madrid forward to realise his dream of returning club to Premier League
A consortium fronted by Gareth Bale has tabled a formal offer, believed to be in the region of £40million, to buy Cardiff City.
Vincent Tan, the owner of the Welsh club relegated from the Championship to League One in May, has already indicated he is not prepared to sell to the former Real Madrid forward and his partners.
But The Times understands an official bid has now been submitted, with the 35-year-old Bale thought to be backed in the venture by US investors.
Cardiff’s descent to the third tier of English football for the first time in more than 20 years has prompted what Tan and his colleagues consider a derisory offer, given the Malaysian billionaire has invested more than £200million in the club.
It means the offer is likely to be met with instant rejection, even if it indicates a level of intent by the Bale-led group.
Last month the former Wales international made no secret of his desire to own his home-town football club, describing a potential takeover as “a dream come true”.
“We are interested in getting Cardiff,” Bale told Sky Sports. “It’s my home club, it’s where I grew up and my uncle used to play for them. To be involved with an ownership group would be a dream come true. It is a club close to my heart and I would love to be able to be a part of growing Cardiff and taking it to the Premier League where it belongs.
“I know how amazing the Welsh fans and Cardiff fans are. It would be amazing to try and do something together. We are trying to engage with Cardiff and more news will come out on that in the future, but hopefully we can get something done.”
That is a very fair offer and I've no doubt it's true with the source.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
I pray he accepts but we are about to see how delusional Tan really is as he will be wanting close to double.
Starting to get interesting. Apart from Tan, Dalman is owed about £35m.
A much bigger offer needed.
Of course they could always do the honourable thing and fall on their sword. They would forever be highly respected for putting Cardiff City and it's long suffering supporters first.Quote:
Originally Posted by Former Labour leader
Isn't there a covenant on the land in favour of the local authority which in essence prevents a sale of the asset to anyone else.
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by BLUEAWAY TOO
The primary issue is what is the club worth.
The secondary issue is what is the basis of any offer made and how the debts on the Balance Sheet are dealt with.
For example, if it is agreed the club is worth around £140m, then an offer may be made of £40m for the shares in the club with the debts remaining on the Balance Sheet (debts were last reported as over £100m).
£50m, minority shareholder, a seat in the directors box, life presidency and Berjaya as upper sleeve sponsor should swing it.
The only story is in the Times? That’s hell of a scoop (or rumour starter).Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
They’d have to make a similar offer to Dalman, as the club currently owes £46m to that Finance company as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigger
Tan has seen his personal fortune nearly halved in the past 12 years - to about £560mQuote:
Originally Posted by Dorcus
He has pledged to leave half his wealth to charities.
He is 73 years old - and 2 years ago stepped down as non-exec chairman of the Berjaya Group (handing the job on to his younger daughter who now heads an all female board!)
He has invested £206m into Cardiff City in 14 years (now in his 15th) as Keith confirmed recently (less than the £250m claimed by Choo and reported by Wales Online, but in the same ball park).
If there are no structural changes made to the club to turn it around and he continues to subsidise it at a similar rate he's got enough in the bank to carry on for another 30 years before he's broke (and celebrates his 103rd birthday).
His age, recent lifestyle changes (he's also become a veggie!), family pressure, the Bale factor and/or assurances about the Sala case may combine to persuade him to sell all or most of the club.
I hope so - if the Bale consortium is not full of asset stripping hedge funds or war criminal oligarchs. We don't know much about them - but hopefully Bale is smart enough to be careful about his partners? However, stay in the frying pan if the alternative is the fire!
With Tan I genuinely don't think money will be the deciding factor. He has thrown a crazy amount of money at the club since 2010 - and wasted a lot of it. He has said for years that he intends to leave half his wealth to charity.
He may enjoy being the owner of a football club (though I doubt it in recent years) but from Malaysian media coverage I get the impression he is more interested in being known as a philanthropist.
If he sees selling up as a charitable act towards Cardiff fans, maybe there will be a deal.
This is crazy talk though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Former Labour leader
Aston Villa were bought for £30 million (for 55%) in 2018
Hull City were sold for £30 million in 2022
We are nowhere near worth anywhere close to double this figure, even if we were in the Championship. Tan will just lose more and more money this season and when we don't get promoted he will continue to lose millions if he doesn't cut his losses. He is more deranged than we thought if he thinks he will be able to sell the club and get his (self inflicted) losses back
I fear the absolute shit show of our financial footing that makes the club unsellable due to gross negligence over numerous years may be about to be exposed if he really is this deluded. Yet some claim he's not that bad an owner !!!!
NoQuote:
Originally Posted by JumpersforGoalposts
The Primary issue is what amount of money will be required by the sellers to sell.
The secondary issue is do the buyers have enough finance to meet the sellers requirement and to continue to finance, invest in the club.
What would stop a new buyer purchasing the shares, not repaying the debt and putting the club into administration to save doing so other than relegation?
And meanwhile the club say absolutely sweet FA. Which helps no one and adds to the angst.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobody's Rep
Spedger
Very good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by BLUEAWAY TOO
If he indeed wants to sell at all, no matter how much is offered. I think he will see how this season pans out. After putting BBM in place etc. As exciting as all this takeover stuff seems. I think it will just fade away. IMO It is all about face with VT.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBirchgrovePub
Spedger