Charlie Kirk

Well said Bob. This is a problem across the spectrum and is a result of a culture that does not promote or tolerate a diversity of views and a society that increasingly separated us into different spaces and silos.

What I hate so much about this is that whether you agree with him or not (and I agreed on some things and disagreed on some things) the way he travelled around taking questions from anyone and answering in a civil manner is exactly what we need more of.

The absolute cowardice of killing someone because you disagree with them and have dehumanised them. The political discourse simply cannot carry on like this, it's gotten so much worse in my lifetime.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Well said Bob. This is a problem across the spectrum and is a result of a culture that does not promote or tolerate a diversity of views and a society that increasingly separated us into different spaces and silos.

What I hate so much about this is that whether you agree with him or not (and I agreed on some things and disagreed on some things) the way he travelled around taking questions from anyone and answering in a civil manner is exactly what we need more of.

The absolute cowardice of killing someone because you disagree with them and have dehumanised them. The political discourse simply cannot carry on like this, it's gotten so much worse in my lifetime.

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"gotten"? You read a lot of US material it seems JW

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

"gotten"? You read a lot of US material it seems JW

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Ha, that is a valid criticism in fairness!

And anyone with very short memories who thinks Britain is immune...

MPs office set alight last night.

Does anyone know the 328 days reference?

Forgot to provide the link

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...d-arson-attack

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Are you actually for real? A guy gets shot in the neck whilst answering questions and you come up with that?

If you can't see that there is a serious problem with entrenched and dangerous views on the far left and the far right then you too are the problem.

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Since when did I deny the problem was on both sides?

I was talking about the President of the United States fanning the flames and then pointing out the end result on social media.

For the record - I am sickened by what happened yesterday. Just because I didn't state this previously it doesn't mean that I wasn't thinking it.

And if you can't see that Trump is fanning the flames, then maybe you are the problem.

Absolutely awful to shoot someone having different political views. Kids left without a dad because some idiot can't handle the fact that people have different politics.

Have to disagree at the idea Kirk encouraged dialogue though. These questions and answer events were one part, a bit of a veneer, but the other side of 'turning point' was extremely divisive. Turning point UK have been popping up on my feed a lot recently. Pushing videos trying to glamorise some really scummy individuals who are abusing police and a bunch of conspiracy theorists who go around cutting down ulez . Turning point is more about taking the fight to and 'owning the libs' than it is about proper conversation.

None of that makes it acceptable in any way to shoot him. But he was certainly not someone who brought people together. He was partisan and divisive, as was his right in a democratic country

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Originally Posted by chrisp_1927

Absolutely awful to shoot someone having different political views. Kids left without a dad because some idiot can't handle the fact that people have different politics.

Have to disagree at the idea Kirk encouraged dialogue though. These questions and answer events were one part, a bit of a veneer, but the other side of 'turning point' was extremely divisive. Turning point UK have been popping up on my feed a lot recently. Pushing videos trying to glamorise some really scummy individuals who are abusing police and a bunch of conspiracy theorists who go around cutting down ulez . Turning point is more about taking the fight to and 'owning the libs' than it is about proper conversation.

None of that makes it acceptable in any way to shoot him. But he was certainly not someone who brought people together. He was partisan and divisive, as was his right in a democratic country

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Well put

https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org...cles-for-you_1

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...trump-reaction

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Originally Posted by delmbox

Well put

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I agree. To clarify. I don't think he's a unifier. Few in politics are, and he wasn't.

What I find so sad is that he did put his views across in the way they should be. Through public debate, through open questions and with a degree of civility we don't see much.

I'm a big fan of debate. Of reason, of meeting in the middle. I hate the memes and the editted clips and the demonisation. I think engaging with people on campuses was fantastic and ultimately it's proven to be brave. I think its the right thing to do and that's part of the reason it's so sad, in my opinion

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

I agree. To clarify. I don't think he's a unifier. Few in politics are, and he wasn't.

What I find so sad is that he did put his views across in the way they should be. Through public debate, through open questions and with a degree of civility we don't see much.

I'm a big fan of debate. Of reason, of meeting in the middle. I hate the memes and the editted clips and the demonisation. I think engaging with people on campuses was fantastic and ultimately it's proven to be brave. I think its the right thing to do and that's part of the reason it's so sad, in my opinion

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https://youtu.be/_8Dho35c0Vs?si=EYrXKbtPXNgmIw3b

There are plenty of examples of him being an unhinged bully

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

https://youtu.be/_8Dho35c0Vs?si=EYrXKbtPXNgmIw3b

There are plenty of examples of him being an unhinged bully

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There is probably 1,000 hours worth of his footage online. That you find (and I say you, but without doubt it was given to you by the algorithms that spread this division) the few seconds worth to justify your hatred and ignore the bigger picture, all on the day after he was shot in the neck to make two kids fatherless says absolutely everything about why actually engaging with people in the way he did is so important. You don't have to agree with him. But listening to different views is absolutely critical and we need to regain it.

You come out with far more offensive stuff on here than he does. You shouldn't get killed for it.

I dare you. Post a video more than a minute long.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

There is probably 1,000 hours worth of his footage online. That you find (and I say you, but without doubt it was given to you by the algorithms that spread this division) the few seconds worth to justify your hatred and ignore the bigger picture, all on the day after he was shot in the neck to make two kids fatherless says absolutely everything about why actually engaging with people in the way he did is so important. You don't have to agree with him. But listening to different views is absolutely critical and we need to regain it.

You come out with far more offensive stuff on here than he does. You shouldn't get killed for it.

I dare you. Post a video more than a minute long.

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You are really pathetic and sanctimonious at times , its creepy

He was a racist and a homophobe and a bully , many of the things he said were outrageous

Please stop with this poor family stuff , people die in horrible ways every day , you are so OTT I am surprised you havnt bought a t shirt

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

You are really pathetic and sanctimonious at times , its creepy

He was a racist and a homophobe and a bully , many of the things he said were outrageous

Please stop with this poor family stuff , people die in horrible ways every day , you are so OTT I am surprised you havnt bought a t shirt

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If we did an analysis of abusive hateful content on this forum, the stuff you post would probably be top of it. So no one is taking lessons from you, Sludge.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

If we did an analysis of abusive hateful content on this forum, the stuff you post would probably be top of it. So no one is taking lessons from you, Sludge.

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I couldnt care less , this is a football forum , not feckin question time

If you are that obsessed with spreading your right leaning " nuance " cobblers then bugger off to GB news and get a job as a presenter

You could have a minutes silence during every ad break to prove how goody goody you are

This bloke was not the angelic right wing but let's have a chat with everyone type you are portraying him as

People are getting bombed in Palestine ..have a look at his views on that area ....hes been shot by a fruitcake, it happens , its always happened , give over with the martyr stuff or get a job as a journalist

It's just weird Sludge. When it's a made up crime that suits your agenda then you start threads on it. When someone is shot dead for talking you are like, whatever.

If any good comes from events like this, it's that people start to seek out those who want to debate things more, and those who just spread bile, less.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

It's just weird Sludge. When it's a made up crime that suits your agenda then you start threads on it. When someone is shot dead for talking you are like, whatever.

If any good comes from events like this, it's that people start to seek out those who want to debate things more, and those who just spread bile, less.

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I dont care , political violence is unacceptable when this bloke gets shot but when Israel , who he was big buddies with , blows up kids its collateral damage .....you spend page after page on the hostages thread playing snakes and ladders and screaming about rivers of blood songs and anti semitism , you want to run with the horses and the hounds

Hes got a record of spouting bile but had far more responsibility than people on football messageboards read by about 50 blokes

I am far more bothered by Ukraine or Palestine

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

I dont care , political violence is unacceptable when this bloke gets shot but when Israel , who he was big buddies with , blows up kids its collateral damage .....you spend page after page on the hostages thread playing snakes and ladders and screaming about rivers of blood songs and anti semitism , you want to run with the horses and the hounds

Hes got a record of spouting bile but had far more responsibility than people on football messageboards read by about 50 blokes

I am far more bothered by Ukraine or Palestine

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I said that "from the river to the sea" is deeply unhelpful a good year ago.. mk screaming. No spending page after page. And you don't get to hide behind the totally unrelated Israel/Palestine conflict on this.

Just stop lying.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

I said that "from the river to the sea" is deeply unhelpful a good year ago.. mk screaming. No spending page after page. And you don't get to hide behind the totally unrelated Israel/Palestine conflict on this.

Just stop lying.

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I seldom peruse this forum, however, having read this particular thread, I think you've come across well, and I agree with you. Just saying.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

I dont care , political violence is unacceptable when this bloke gets shot but when Israel , who he was big buddies with , blows up kids its collateral damage .....you spend page after page on the hostages thread playing snakes and ladders and screaming about rivers of blood songs and anti semitism , you want to run with the horses and the hounds

Hes got a record of spouting bile but had far more responsibility than people on football messageboards read by about 50 blokes

I am far more bothered by Ukraine or Palestine

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'hare and the hounds' :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

There is probably 1,000 hours worth of his footage online. That you find (and I say you, but without doubt it was given to you by the algorithms that spread this division) the few seconds worth to justify your hatred and ignore the bigger picture, all on the day after he was shot in the neck to make two kids fatherless says absolutely everything about why actually engaging with people in the way he did is so important. You don't have to agree with him. But listening to different views is absolutely critical and we need to regain it.

You come out with far more offensive stuff on here than he does. You shouldn't get killed for it.

I dare you. Post a video more than a minute long.

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Tell us what Kirk said we should agree with.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

I said that "from the river to the sea" is deeply unhelpful a good year ago.. mk screaming. No spending page after page. And you don't get to hide behind the totally unrelated Israel/Palestine conflict on this.

Just stop lying.

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You are page after page on about anti semitism and everything else , stop lying

This crops up , you are all over it like a rash

Its no more horrific than things that happen all over the world

Not nice but thats life