Police commissioner requests 'immediate review' of decision to ban Maccabi Tel Aviv fans

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Originally Posted by Bluebirdman Of Alcathays

Of course it's anti-semitic. They haven't taken this decision cos of football hooliganism; it won't just be Villa fans waiting for them.

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If it does go ahead (as I expect it will through Government insistence) the Maccabi army might regret attending. They may well discover some Palestine supporters expecting their arrival and ready to keep the peace.

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

If it does go ahead (as I expect it will through Government insistence) the Maccabi army might regret attending. They may well discover some Palestine supporters expecting their arrival and ready to keep the peace.

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So who is it that actually wants peace? Is it the Palestinians and Israeli’s, or just the protesters in Europe and other places in the world?
It’s all getting a bit daft and crazy now.

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

So who is it that actually wants peace? Is it the Palestinians and Israeli’s, or just the protesters in Europe and other places in the world?
It’s all getting a bit daft and crazy now.

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Peace is elusive! What exactly does it mean? In this case the scenario is a handful of Palestine supporters helping out Villa fans to police an unruly Maccabi mob from causing trouble in their home city. Nothing to do with peace but sensible enough, I'm sure you'd agree Bill? Oh and this is all necessary because our shite National Government will seek to override local police. You couldn't make it up!

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Originally Posted by Mr Soul '68

How do you know this is true Jon, were you in Amsterdam that evening?

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If you mean the behaviour of the Maccabi fans in Amsterdam I remember seeing the 'citizen journalist' video clips of them rampaging and chanting through the centre of Amsterdam long before there were any incidents in which they were the target. They were shot by several Dutch people who were not associated with Ajax, the Palestine solidarity movement, or taxi drivers!

Those clips were offered to press and TV outlets across Europe and a few used them - but most didn't and relied on the later footage and on political statements. In the UK the clips were shown 2-3 days after the night of trouble (I think on Sky and Channel 4) but by that time the story had moved on and impressions were fixed.

My understanding is that the retaliation against Maccabi fans was organised very quickly by Amsterdam taxi drivers after some of their number were targeted (for brown skin, Arabic texts hanging from the mirror, for a mini Palestine flag on the dash - who knows) and then it quickly became a night of riot. As I said above, some of the organising posts - shown after in news reports - were certainly anti Semitic and aimed at Jews, not at Israelis celebrating genocide and vandalising central Amsterdam.

But Maccabi instigated the events.

The Amsterdam police - to their credit - refused to repeat the political narrative.

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Originally Posted by Grievous Angel

Really? It would be a massive use of police and other public resources and would certainly not guarantee a trouble free night. It also smacks of preferential treatment. No thank you.

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Swansea away...massive use of police resources. It can be done.

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Originally Posted by IanD

Swansea away...massive use of police resources. It can be done.

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THIS IS NOT A CARDIFF VS SWANSEA GAME. OR ANY OTHER LOCAL DERBY.

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Originally Posted by Coyote

THIS IS NOT A CARDIFF VS SWANSEA GAME. OR ANY OTHER LOCAL DERBY.

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And why the need for taxpayer's money to be wasted? I'll bet they've got TVs in Israel Shirley?

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Originally Posted by jon1959

If you mean the behaviour of the Maccabi fans in Amsterdam I remember seeing the 'citizen journalist' video clips of them rampaging and chanting through the centre of Amsterdam long before there were any incidents in which they were the target. They were shot by several Dutch people who were not associated with Ajax, the Palestine solidarity movement, or taxi drivers!

Those clips were offered to press and TV outlets across Europe and a few used them - but most didn't and relied on the later footage and on political statements. In the UK the clips were shown 2-3 days after the night of trouble (I think on Sky and Channel 4) but by that time the story had moved on and impressions were fixed.

My understanding is that the retaliation against Maccabi fans was organised very quickly by Amsterdam taxi drivers after some of their number were targeted (for brown skin, Arabic texts hanging from the mirror, for a mini Palestine flag on the dash - who knows) and then it quickly became a night of riot. As I said above, some of the organising posts - shown after in news reports - were certainly anti Semitic and aimed at Jews, not at Israelis celebrating genocide and vandalising central Amsterdam.

But Maccabi instigated the events.

The Amsterdam police - to their credit - refused to repeat the political narrative.

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Another point of interest: Ajax is a Jewish supporting club!

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

You take wikipedia as you like but here is an amalgam of reports of the abnormal events before, during and after where the football match seems incidental!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novemb...msterdam_riots

We have had bubbles, early kick-offs and travel bans by police authorities trying to avoid a fraction of this kind of thing. Yet the designated authorities who want to avoid the risk of a repeat from forces way beyond football fans are under intense pressure to change because somehow the decision is viewed as anti-semetic.

You either delegate the authority to the legally defined bodies or you take it away and give it to politicians watching the way the wind blows, which is what is happening in this case.

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This is the second time today that an opinion on a matter of fact has been questioned by asking ‘were you there?’ It’s getting ridiculous with some people.

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Originally Posted by Dave Blue

This is the second time today that an opinion on a matter of fact has been questioned by asking ‘were you there?’ It’s getting ridiculous with some people.

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If they're f****d to provide a sensible answer it's their go to response. Their report card reads "could do (a lot) better".

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Originally Posted by Dave Blue

This is the second time today that an opinion on a matter of fact has been questioned by asking ‘were you there?’ It’s getting ridiculous with some people.

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Were you there when he typed it?

I'm sorry, I wasn't actually in Uganda when Idi Amin took power, I guess I can't comment on him fairly now, sorry lads.

A lot of one sided posts on that Amsterdam event, people ignoring what they want and amplifying other things. The reality is it was a serious event, there was anti Palestinian behaviour from some Maccabi fans, which was responded to in kind by some wholly disproportionate violence after the game towards them, including a lot of stuff that appears to be antisemitic (references to "Jew hunts" etc), and more vandalism from Maccabi fans and others before order was restored.

It's a two-sides thing. Anyone saying otherwise is lying and there's multiple reports on it all.

All of that is reason to ensure the game is marked as a high profile game needing some serious police planning, but none of it means that all Maccabi fans should be banned or that normal Jewish Israeli fans shouldn't feel safe in Birmingham, which we have been told recently is a safe and welcoming city.

Overturn the ban. Let the fans attend. Plan the event to keep people safe, which we do for dozens of games every weekend, and don't let the racists or bigots win.

Football can bring us together. It should be given a chance to do so.

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Originally Posted by Coyote

I'm sorry, I wasn't actually in Uganda when Idi Amin took power, I guess I can't comment on him fairly now, sorry lads.

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I wasnt in any of the death camps when Hitler arranged to murder several million Jews but I accept the contemporary narrative.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

A lot of one sided posts on that Amsterdam event, people ignoring what they want and amplifying other things. The reality is it was a serious event, there was anti Palestinian behaviour from some Maccabi fans, which was responded to in kind by some wholly disproportionate violence after the game towards them, including a lot of stuff that appears to be antisemitic (references to "Jew hunts" etc), and more vandalism from Maccabi fans and others before order was restored.

It's a two-sides thing. Anyone saying otherwise is lying and there's multiple reports on it all.

All of that is reason to ensure the game is marked as a high profile game needing some serious police planning, but none of it means that all Maccabi fans should be banned or that normal Jewish Israeli fans shouldn't feel safe in Birmingham, which we have been told recently is a safe and welcoming city.

Overturn the ban. Let the fans attend. Plan the event to keep people safe, which we do for dozens of games every weekend, and don't let the racists or bigots win.

Football can bring us together. It should be given a chance to do so.

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Football doesn't need unnecessary violence. Let them watch the match at home and keep everyone happy

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

A lot of one sided posts on that Amsterdam event, people ignoring what they want and amplifying other things. The reality is it was a serious event, there was anti Palestinian behaviour from some Maccabi fans, which was responded to in kind by some wholly disproportionate violence after the game towards them, including a lot of stuff that appears to be antisemitic (references to "Jew hunts" etc), and more vandalism from Maccabi fans and others before order was restored.

It's a two-sides thing. Anyone saying otherwise is lying and there's multiple reports on it all.

All of that is reason to ensure the game is marked as a high profile game needing some serious police planning, but none of it means that all Maccabi fans should be banned or that normal Jewish Israeli fans shouldn't feel safe in Birmingham, which we have been told recently is a safe and welcoming city.

Overturn the ban. Let the fans attend. Plan the event to keep people safe, which we do for dozens of games every weekend, and don't let the racists or bigots win.

Football can bring us together. It should be given a chance to do so.

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We are the world, we are the children...........

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

We are the world, we are the children...........

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I'm not

It's a funny old world.

80 year old Enid from Chalfont Saint Peter is arrested for wearing a Palestine Action pin badge and deemed a supporter of terrorism, nobody monds Enid as she's a harmless old bint expressing her right to free speech.

30 year old Avi from Haifa, travels to the UK, on arrival can chant 'death to the Arabs' 'Rape Arab Women' and glorify a genocide and get's a free pass to do it even though it's probably going to end up in a massive kerfuffle.

James Wales nuance radar thinks this is quite correct and Enid should be hanged, drawn and quartered whilst Avi is given the George Cross.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

We are the world, we are the children...........

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JW is a closet hippy! Wow, what a revelation.

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Originally Posted by Coyote

Most football fans don't come from a nation that has been allowed to get away with genocide in recent history, or chant pro-genocide slogans.

If you'd like to see football fans get injured in mass, preventable violence, please feel free to advocate for the unapologetically genocidal. I'm sure future generations won't look upon you badly for this, surely not. Life without a conscience or inner dialogue must be interesting, if nothing else.

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So you want to ban football fans (some won't be angels of course) because they come from a nation whose politics and policies you disagree with?

If the police do their jobs there won't be much issue.

If we are talking of there being people from the local area wanting to engage violently with the Israeli fans because they are Israeli then it seems likely that's an issue with the population of that area and maybe villa shouldnt be allowed in European competition. Just as silly a suggestion.

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Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

It's a funny old world.

80 year old Enid from Chalfont Saint Peter is arrested for wearing a Palestine Action pin badge and deemed a supporter of terrorism, nobody monds Enid as she's a harmless old bint expressing her right to free speech.

30 year old Avi from Haifa, travels to the UK, on arrival can chant 'death to the Arabs' 'Rape Arab Women' and glorify a genocide and get's a free pass to do it even though it's probably going to end up in a massive kerfuffle.

James Wales nuance radar thinks this is quite correct and Enid should be hanged, drawn and quartered whilst Avi is given the George Cross.

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When you have to make things up to prove a point, it does undermine your argument.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

We are the world, we are the children...........

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Absolutely!

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

When you have to make things up to prove a point, it does undermine your argument.

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And completely ignores some of the vile abuse peaceful Jewish people in this country have experienced in the last couple of years.

Some of the pro Palestine protestors are deeply unhinged people. But that's all good as the BBC rarely covers anything like that.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

I'm not

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I bet your XG says differently.

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Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

It's a funny old world.

80 year old Enid from Chalfont Saint Peter is arrested for wearing a Palestine Action pin badge and deemed a supporter of terrorism, nobody monds Enid as she's a harmless old bint expressing her right to free speech.

30 year old Avi from Haifa, travels to the UK, on arrival can chant 'death to the Arabs' 'Rape Arab Women' and glorify a genocide and get's a free pass to do it even though it's probably going to end up in a massive kerfuffle.

James Wales nuance radar thinks this is quite correct and Enid should be hanged, drawn and quartered whilst Avi is given the George Cross.

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It's all about balance....