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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
So if there was a vote in the house that all Welsh MPs wanted but English MPs didn't, who would win and would you be happy with this?
is the vote on a Welsh only issue or Union issue? If its not a devolved matter then that's part of being in the union and would be accepted. Regardless, it will be a cold day in hell when Labour and Tory MPs vote the same way, no matter what the issue.
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MacAdder
No.
Drakeford and his cronies couldn't organise a pissup in a brewery.
Topical ironic.
Ditto.
The jocks would cock things up on their own, too.
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bluebirdman Of Alcathays
I would interpret your last line as a lack of confidence not just in our politics but as a country. Is there, potentially, no-one in Wales who knows how to sustain a nation? How do the Irish or the people of Iceland get by without someone watching over their shoulders to make sure they've done it right?
are Ireland and Iceland's economies so intrinsically linked to England's economy? You see an Exodus every day from Cardiff and Newport to Bristol - why is that?
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
I used to think that it would be a big mistake to leave the union.
However, for as long as you care to look back Wales has been one of, or the poorest parts of the UK.
I don't see that even changing whilst in a union with a member more than 18 times as big as us.
The focus will always be on how to help London and the South east and we will get the scraps.
Yes we get Barnett formula money, but that is all just spent on public services to treat the symptoms of having the oldest, poorest least healthy population in the UK.
Investment into infrastructure almost never happens because you always get more bang for your buck in London, so in the union we will always be a poor relation and always just treating the symptoms of our economy.
Ireland for many years were about the poorest part of the UK. They became independent 100 years ago this coming March, and since about the year 2000 have had a higher GDP per capita than the UK.
Had they not left the UK this would not have happened.
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TISS
the Tories have donations measured in millions, I'd be surprised if YesCymru had donations measured in thousands.
When you look at the Welsh results, the Tories polled better than Plaid Cymru at the last election. That says all you need to know about where the Welsh see their future. Around 10% vote for Plaid, and its not getting any higher than that.
Leaving the union would be economic suicide, as we have nothing much to offer the English in terms of trade.
All I'm saying is that it's a good level of membership, its not the round dismissal of independence you think it is. The most recent Welsh independence poll showed 32% of the country would vote for independence if a vote was held tomorrow. https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/nor...ghest-18832964
Plaid Cymru are pretty much a complete failure as a political party but aren't the only vessel for the independence movement, as seen here the majority of Welsh Labour voters would back independence: https://nation.cymru/news/new-poll-s...-independence/
I mentioned elsewhere that I don't see how "you'll be ruined without the union" is a particularly good argument for the union. Surely all that shows is the disregard held towards Wales by the Westminster government and the lack of economic development directed at Wales since the decimation of our national industries?
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TISS
are Ireland and Iceland's economies so intrinsically linked to England's economy? You see an Exodus every day from Cardiff and Newport to Bristol - why is that?
you see alot coming the other way too after the toll was scrapped. Caldicot has already fallen to the english. They're coming I tell you,there coming!:hehe:
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bluebirdman Of Alcathays
I would interpret your last line as a lack of confidence not just in our politics but as a country. Is there, potentially, no-one in Wales who knows how to sustain a nation? How do the Irish or the people of Iceland get by without someone watching over their shoulders to make sure they've done it right?
Ireland has the EU watching them. Didn't billions of British tax payer money go to the Irish bailout?
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
I wonder if the answer for anyone will be different once Scotland and Northern Ireland have both decided to leave.
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
We've got loads of industry - steelworks making huge quantities of steel and vast profits. The massive financial quarter in Mill Lane. Natural resources, we could sell our water to the Midlands and North West - they currently get it for free. Loads of earth, rock we could export.
bring it on..
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Ireland (prior to EU membership) and Iceland have their own currencies. To be truly independent you have to have a currency; otherwise public spending and borrowing would have to be controlled by the country to which the currency belongs. ONS data indicates public spending in Wales is £14.7bn greater than taxes received so how is this gap to be closed if spending in Wales in effectively controlled by the UK government even if Wales was independent. It could never happen.
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
A Quiet Monkfish
We've got loads of industry - steelworks making huge quantities of steel and vast profits. The massive financial quarter in Mill Lane. Natural resources, we could sell our water to the Midlands and North West - they currently get it for free. Loads of earth, rock we could export.
bring it on..
I wouldn't go so far as to say the steel industry is vastly profitable and, as for selling water, that can't happen as the reservoirs were constructed and paid for by local authorities in England. They could be nationalised at a cost but that is more money Wales doesn't or won't have.
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vindec
I wouldn't go so far as to say the steel industry is vastly profitable and, as for selling water, that can't happen as the reservoirs were constructed and paid for by local authorities in England. They could be nationalised at a cost but that is more money Wales doesn't or won't have.
I was being sarcastic. Wales on it's own is about as wealthy as Sudan
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Not for me I am a Unionist, believe UK is stronger together, very proud of our history on the world stage and believe that we need less division from the home nations and a need to come together, so Britain can come out of our current climate a stronger and more resilient power than ever before.
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TISS
are Ireland and Iceland's economies so intrinsically linked to England's economy? You see an Exodus every day from Cardiff and Newport to Bristol - why is that?
They could still do that if we were independent. But it doesn't answer my question.
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bobh
Ditto.
The jocks would cock things up on their own, too.
And another one. Only the English can rule and organise, apparently. That's the English, who, along with the help of the Welsh, are currently driving everyone off a cliff.
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
The population of Wales probably isn't far off the population of the Republic of Ireland when they gained independance
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bluebirdman Of Alcathays
They could still do that if we were independent. But it doesn't answer my question.
let me put it another way. We import more from England than they import from us - by a country mile. If we left the union we'd either be pegged to Sterling and would therefore be subject to spend decisions made by Westminster, or we'd be subject to tariffs, customs and currency fluctuations. Either way we'd be comparable with Chad within a generation.
given the lackwits in the Senedd couldn't make the decision re the M4 relief road, it does bode well for full political freedom.
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
The population of Wales probably isn't far off the population of the Republic of Ireland when they gained independance
lets just remember that globalism wasn't around in the 1920s (or 1940s - depending on how you define independence), and that localism played a much greater part of trade. Regardless, for many many years the punt was pegged to Sterling and all spend decisions for Ireland were made in Westminster.
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TISS
let me put it another way. We import more from England than they import from us - by a country mile. If we left the union we'd either be pegged to Sterling and would therefore be subject to spend decisions made by Westminster, or we'd be subject to tariffs, customs and currency fluctuations. Either way we'd be comparable with Chad within a generation.
given the lackwits in the Senedd couldn't make the decision re the M4 relief road, it does bode well for full political freedom.
comparable to chad?
don't be ridiculous
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
In my opinion this died a death around 1990. The WDA was on the crest of a wave, pulling in foreign investment and manufacturing, exactly what was required to under pin independence. Then they fell to combination of corruption & illegal payments charges coupled with being outmanoeuvred by the EU funded Irish DA. The opportunity to reindustrialise Wales died there & then, through incompetence & complacency.
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Whilst we are in the Union, the reasons Wales is poorer than England will never be addressed.
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vindec
Ireland (prior to EU membership) and Iceland have their own currencies. To be truly independent you have to have a currency; otherwise public spending and borrowing would have to be controlled by the country to which the currency belongs. ONS data indicates public spending in Wales is £14.7bn greater than taxes received so how is this gap to be closed if spending in Wales in effectively controlled by the UK government even if Wales was independent. It could never happen.
Do you have a link that has a breakdown on the Welsh Public spending figures?
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OurManFlint II
Do you have a link that has a breakdown on the Welsh Public spending figures?
Not a breakdown as such. This is where I got my information. It's now a few years old. Read from "A basket case" down.
https://www.dw.com/en/could-an-indep...one/a-49952972
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vindec
The fact that there is such a disparity between the economy here and other parts of the UK is more of a case of independence than against one for me.
Decisions will always be made to support the economy in London and the South East, no matter the effect on regions such as Wales.
Ireland was probably the poorest part of the UK and now it is richer than the UK, because it takes decisions that benefits itself, not london.
If Ireland had never become independent it would probably still be as poor a Wales.
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TISS
lets just remember that globalism wasn't around in the 1920s (or 1940s - depending on how you define independence), and that localism played a much greater part of trade. Regardless, for many many years the punt was pegged to Sterling and all spend decisions for Ireland were made in Westminster.
Ireland didn't catch up and overtake the UK until the 1990s/2000s
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Absolutely not personally and haven't showed anything to make me choose otherwise
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Wales as is the case with Scotland will never be independent, if there not hitched up to England then they will be hitched up to Germany via brussels....people died to stop this in two wars.
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Des Parrot
In my opinion this died a death around 1990. The WDA was on the crest of a wave, pulling in foreign investment and manufacturing, exactly what was required to under pin independence. Then they fell to combination of corruption & illegal payments charges coupled with being outmanoeuvred by the EU funded Irish DA. The opportunity to reindustrialise Wales died there & then, through incompetence & complacency.
Should bring back the WDA
The whole of Wales is so compartmentalized it's crazy
The government could use it's powers to have future thinking development and use value adding methods and taking advantage of it's borrowing and legislative powers.
For example there's 7 miles between J34 and J35.
Buy up all the farm land in that area that they can get their hands on at £8000 an acre via compulsory purchase orders
Remediate and plan in a way that suits Wales and future projects
Sell serviced bits of land to developers for 100x what you just paid for it
Overly simplistic and long termism but Drakefords small town mentality will strangle the M4 corridor and hollow out the valleys from within with his politics
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
Whilst we are in the Union, the reasons Wales is poorer than England will never be addressed.
What are the reasons?
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WJ99mobile
What are the reasons?
Lack of investment, and everything being driven to generate jobs and growth in London