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Re: UK Covid-19 death figures
i think these daily updates have been the boris bullshit channel
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Re: UK Covid-19 death figures
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Originally Posted by
goats
People aren’t that stupid though, although we do seem to have more here than in say Sweden, which as we all know had no lockdown but does have SD. Interesting that a Norway now think there lockdown might have been too severe and done more harm than good.
Why is that interesting?
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Re: UK Covid-19 death figures
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Originally Posted by
goats
People aren’t that stupid though, although we do seem to have more here than in say Sweden, which as we all know had no lockdown but does have SD. Interesting that a Norway now think there lockdown might have been too severe and done more harm than good.
Sweden has the highest death rate per capita at one point
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...te-per-capita/
Their society is more naturally socially distanced than ours too which is why it wasn't worse.
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Re: UK Covid-19 death figures
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Originally Posted by
Welshcake.
I'm not saying it is a contest. I'm saying making comparisons is difficult because the way numbers have been recorded are different.
^^^^^This!
If the figures of deaths since early March are compared with the average number in previous years for the same period, England has had around 60,000 more deaths during this period than usual.
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Re: UK Covid-19 death figures
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Originally Posted by
lisvaneblue
I agree the figures in Wales are terrible, but don't agree that we can blame the UK Government in part.
Really? I'm amazed.....
The assertion that the UK government doesn't share the blame for the Covid-19 situation in Wales is so mind-numbingly stupid it doesn't warrant a proper response. It's almost on a par with the rubbish you wrote about your proposed shopping trip to Brecon, but not quite.
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Re: UK Covid-19 death figures
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Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
Really? I'm amazed.....
The assertion that the UK government doesn't share the blame for the Covid-19 situation in Wales is so mind-numbingly stupid it doesn't warrant a proper response. It's almost on a par with the rubbish you wrote about your proposed shopping trip to Brecon, but not quite.
If something is devolved it means...and Im sure you know this... that the responsibility has been passed on...ie to the Senedd
If the Senedd chooses to be led by England then it does not take away the fact that the Senedd holds total responsibility for our healthcare. Nothing to do with England or the rest of the UK
So I think it may not be me that is mind numbingly stupid. Don't let our Welsh politicians fob you off by thinking that Westminster is somehow to share the blame for the mess it has got us in.
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Re: UK Covid-19 death figures
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Originally Posted by
lisvaneblue
If something is devolved it means...and Im sure you know this... that the responsibility has been passed on...ie to the Senedd
If the Senedd chooses to be led by England then it does not take away the fact that the Senedd holds total responsibility for our healthcare. Nothing to do with England or the rest of the UK
So I think it may not be me that is mind numbingly stupid. Don't let our Welsh politicians fob you off by thinking that Westminster is somehow to share the blame for the mess it has got us in.
Westminster were responsible for the ridiculous delays in announcing the lockdown, which is one the biggest causes in the spread of Covid-19 and leading to so many avoidable deaths.
They hold all of the blame on that account, I'm sure you'll agr... Nope, what am I thinking. You wouldn't dare hold them responsible for that.
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Re: UK Covid-19 death figures
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Originally Posted by
Heisenberg
Westminster were responsible for the ridiculous delays in announcing the lockdown, which is one the biggest causes in the spread of Covid-19 and leading to so many avoidable deaths.
They hold all of the blame on that account, I'm sure you'll agr... Nope, what am I thinking. You wouldn't dare hold them responsible for that.
Wales could have, should have, made their own decisions on lockdown. Small European countries went ahead. It doesn't sit easy but we have our own Public Health system, our own Medical officers and Scientific advisors, and our own parliament. if overall they decided to wait for England to declare lockdown or go with a UK position before acting then that's the Senedd's decision and their responsibility.
Nothing at all to do with England, Scotland or Northern Ireland
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Re: UK Covid-19 death figures
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Originally Posted by
lisvaneblue
Wales could have, should have, made their own decisions on lockdown. Small European countries went ahead. It doesn't sit easy but we have our own Public Health system, our own Medical officers and Scientific advisors, and our own parliament. if overall they decided to wait for England to declare lockdown or go with a UK position before acting then that's the Senedd's decision and their responsibility.
Nothing at all to do with England, Scotland or Northern Ireland
Wales locking down without England locking down would have been incredibly ineffective in my opinion. Firstly, we would have the cases of people crossing the border for work purposes. People would still be arriving in large numbers from England to Welsh beauty spots. Also, there would have been no furlough scheme - the result being that retailers would be able to continue trading in their English branches, but not the Welsh. That could, arguably, have led to shops being closed, and people being made redundant in large numbers.
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Re: UK Covid-19 death figures
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Originally Posted by
lisvaneblue
Wales could have, should have, made their own decisions on lockdown. Small European countries went ahead. It doesn't sit easy but we have our own Public Health system, our own Medical officers and Scientific advisors, and our own parliament. if overall they decided to wait for England to declare lockdown or go with a UK position before acting then that's the Senedd's decision and their responsibility.
Nothing at all to do with England, Scotland or Northern Ireland
Wales couldn't do anything on there own until the covid act was passed through Parliament.
Which was delayed because Johnson had his thumb stuck up his arse for ages.
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Re: UK Covid-19 death figures
I don't understand why anyone would be trying so hard to absolve the government of all blame.
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Re: UK Covid-19 death figures
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Originally Posted by
lardy
I don't understand why anyone would be trying so hard to absolve the government of all blame.
That's what people do now, they vote for a side then have to back them and defend them on every decision. I can't understand it but it seems to be huge in politics these days.
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Re: UK Covid-19 death figures
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Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
That's what people do now, they vote for a side then have to back them and defend them on every decision. I can't understand it but it seems to be huge in politics these days.
Explains why the Conservatives are still polling at forty per cent plus even after Dominic Cummings' eye test - some people still think Brexit is the most important thing out there at the moment it seems.
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Re: UK Covid-19 death figures
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Originally Posted by
insider
Wales couldn't do anything on there own until the covid act was passed through Parliament.
Which was delayed because Johnson had his thumb stuck up his arse for ages.
The act covered lots of day to day things, like retired doctors re-registering etc, but the Senedd was free to do whatever in strategic healthcare issues, including its own lockdown. Whether it would have been practical, I don’t know. Buts let’s stop blaming Westminster for the Senedd decisions, or lack of.
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Re: UK Covid-19 death figures
Jesus Lisvaneblue you’re not supposed to deep throat the boot
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Re: UK Covid-19 death figures
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Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
That's what people do now, they vote for a side then have to back them and defend them on every decision. I can't understand it but it seems to be huge in politics these days.
At the end of the day the Senedd is 100% responsible for healthcare in Wales. Westminster has no responsibility for it at all.
Decisions or lack of, following or working with the other home nations, going it alone are down to the Senedd. I’m not defending Boris, just saying that in Wales it,s our governments responsibility not his
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Re: UK Covid-19 death figures
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Originally Posted by
lisvaneblue
The act covered lots of day to day things, like retired doctors re-registering etc, but the Senedd was free to do whatever in strategic healthcare issues, including its own lockdown. Whether it would have been practical, I don’t know. Buts let’s stop blaming Westminster for the Senedd decisions, or lack of.
So how could people be kept off the street and in Lockdown without the act then?
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Re: UK Covid-19 death figures
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Originally Posted by
lisvaneblue
At the end of the day the Senedd is 100% responsible for healthcare in Wales. Westminster has no responsibility for it at all.
Decisions or lack of, following or working with the other home nations, going it alone are down to the Senedd. I’m not defending Boris, just saying that in Wales it,s our governments responsibility not his
But the majority of deaths were caused because the whole of the U.K. didn’t lockdown soon enough. Were wales able to do that without parliament agreeing?
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Re: UK Covid-19 death figures
Testing and lockdown timings I'm sure are likely to be key in the review in both England and Wales, Welsh Assembly had the ability to act differently ,as they are now ,where is the testing now in Wales ??
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Re: UK Covid-19 death figures
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Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Explains why the Conservatives are still polling at forty per cent plus even after Dominic Cummings' eye test - some people still think Brexit is the most important thing out there at the moment it seems.
Too true and the other thing is..once a Tory, always Tory; I'm alright Jack
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Re: UK Covid-19 death figures
Given the relatively low population of Wales North of Merthyr, and given that the populations of Mid and small parts of North Wales attend English hospitals, the figures in Wales are probably worse than the figures indicate as many Mid Wales deaths in hospitals particularly have probably been recorded in England and appear in the English figures. (As many will know deaths are recorded at the place of death and not where the patient resides.) Also testing is relatively low in Wales meaning far fewer cases of those suffering from COVID-19 are recorded and cannot appear in the stats.
https://www.walesdeanery.org/corpora...-locations-map
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Re: UK Covid-19 death figures
This is what a country "in control" looks like.
https://www.ekathimerini.com/253318/...or-coronavirus
12 passengers on a single flight from Qatar to Athens tested positive. As a result, Greece have banned flights from Qatar for 2 weeks.
Greece have 2,937 cases. They have recorded 179 deaths. The UK has recorded more cases every single day in the period Mar 31 - May 17. The UK also recorded more deaths every single day between March 24th and May 24th.
While I agree we cannot really compare countries because of different methods of recording, it would take an incredible covering act for Greece to be disguising just how they controlled the virus. This in a country where, like Spain and Italy, "touchy" greetings, large family meals, kids staying with grandparents are common place.
Population of Greece is circa 11m. 21.66% are over 65
UK population is 6 times that of Greece. Number of people who have died, about 200 times more.
Remember, Greece is in a mountain of debt. It was, supposedly, screwed over by the EU. It's main industry is tourism.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ter-150-deaths
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Re: UK Covid-19 death figures
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Originally Posted by
CCFCC3PO
Wales locking down without England locking down would have been incredibly ineffective in my opinion. Firstly, we would have the cases of people crossing the border for work purposes. People would still be arriving in large numbers from England to Welsh beauty spots. Also, there would have been no furlough scheme - the result being that retailers would be able to continue trading in their English branches, but not the Welsh. That could, arguably, have led to shops being closed, and people being made redundant in large numbers.
But, to a degree, what you say would have been ineffective is happening now. We are much more restricted in Wales by our lockdown than England is. Their shops are opening ours less so. Wales has more people furloughed per capita.
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Re: UK Covid-19 death figures
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Originally Posted by
lardy
I don't understand why anyone would be trying so hard to absolve the government of all blame.
I’m not trying to absolve the government of all blame. It’s record is not good when it comes to Covid. What I’m saying is that Healthcare in Wales is devolved to the Senedd, so the Senedd is responsible, not Westminster. Parliament might influence but the decisions rest with the Senedd. Surely it’s not that difficult to understand
I’ve been at the stadium when we lose and everyone blames the ref. The ref may influence but the responsibility for getting a result rests with the team and manager....same as above
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Re: UK Covid-19 death figures
Didn’t Wales, like the rest of the UK, require The Coronavirus Act before it could introduce any of the emergency powers associated with lockdown? This was passed by UK parliament on 23 March.
I thought this act evolved lockdown powers at the same time so Wales couldn’t actually have locked down independently before this. Might be wrong as live in England now so not close to Senedd activities tbh.
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Re: UK Covid-19 death figures
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CCFCC3PO
This is what a country "in control" looks like.
https://www.ekathimerini.com/253318/...or-coronavirus
12 passengers on a single flight from Qatar to Athens tested positive. As a result, Greece have banned flights from Qatar for 2 weeks.
Greece have 2,937 cases. They have recorded 179 deaths. The UK has recorded more cases every single day in the period Mar 31 - May 17. The UK also recorded more deaths every single day between March 24th and May 24th.
While I agree we cannot really compare countries because of different methods of recording, it would take an incredible covering act for Greece to be disguising just how they controlled the virus. This in a country where, like Spain and Italy, "touchy" greetings, large family meals, kids staying with grandparents are common place.
Population of Greece is circa 11m. 21.66% are over 65
UK population is 6 times that of Greece. Number of people who have died, about 200 times more.
Remember, Greece is in a mountain of debt. It was, supposedly, screwed over by the EU. It's main industry is tourism.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ter-150-deaths
I’ve got family in Greece. They really hit lockdown hard. Stay at home, only leave if you have a letter or e mail authorising it. Return home ASAP, text to the police to confirm you are back home
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Re: UK Covid-19 death figures
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Originally Posted by
lisvaneblue
But, to a degree, what you say would have been ineffective is happening now. We are much more restricted in Wales by our lockdown than England is. Their shops are opening ours less so. Wales has more people furloughed per capita.
There is no way that furlough payments would have been handed out if Wales went it alone. The early success of the lockdown was party down to people being paid to stay at home. I also think Wales' guidelines are less effective because of Johnson's messages.
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Re: UK Covid-19 death figures
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Originally Posted by
lisvaneblue
I’ve got family in Greece. They really hit lockdown hard. Stay at home, only leave if you have a letter or e mail authorising it. Return home ASAP, text to the police to confirm you are back home
It's paying dividends. Did they "furlough" workers, out of interest?
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Re: UK Covid-19 death figures
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Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
We don't know the whole story yet, but as i've previously said 90% of the deaths in Sweden are the over 70's
Very poor decisions have cost their lives mostly in the Stockholm region where incompetence seems to have been very high.
And as per usual the head advisor on the pandemic was seen sitting at a bar close to other people not following his own advise.
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Re: UK Covid-19 death figures
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Originally Posted by
Baloo
Didn’t Wales, like the rest of the UK, require The Coronavirus Act before it could introduce any of the emergency powers associated with lockdown? This was passed by UK parliament on 23 March.
I thought this act evolved lockdown powers at the same time so Wales couldn’t actually have locked down independently before this. Might be wrong as live in England now so not close to Senedd activities tbh.
Meant devolved not evolved :getscoat: