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Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J R Hartley
I'm 41 and I've done it with Whitts
#wellJel
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Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?
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Originally Posted by
Nick
Very well said TH63.
I agree and he is doing his best for us. NW keeps praising him and thats good enough for me.
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Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?
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Originally Posted by
Cyclops
Would someone care to explain why I still see the occasional red scarf at the CCS?
Is it because you got that one big ol' red eye?
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Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?
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Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
Was he? And did they?
News to me.
Clearly his rebrand was ill advised, would you not agree?
And whilst I have no evidence that someone flat out told him it wouldn't be an issue, it's fairly safe to assume that nobody told him that it would be. They just took his money.
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Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?
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Originally Posted by
chepstow
Forgiven him for what?
I dont need to forgive him. He did what he thought in his tiny bubble was the right thing for him and his latest toy.
Not a case of forgiving him for me ..... i just dont respect him and show him as much contempt as he showed our club and its supporters.
When he pops his clogs the club will still be here
Well said, last sentence, let's hope he does leave a football club behind.
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Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?
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Originally Posted by
blue matt
that was a very short term solution as i am not sure TG had the money, he would have had to have someone with money behind him
He was paying the bills though, and the wages. And, he had given Mackay enough money to assemble an interesting young team that reached a major final at Wembley. Tony Clemo he was not.
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Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?
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Originally Posted by
ninianclark
Ooh get you. Maybe vince will round your house and apologise to you in person.
A general apology would be nice. Instead the coward used his mother to write a note. Weird.
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Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TH63
Clearly his rebrand was ill advised, would you not agree?
And whilst I have no evidence that someone flat out told him it wouldn't be an issue, it's fairly safe to assume that nobody told him that it would be. They just took his money.
That is completely not what you said a few posts back. You stated, almost factually, that someone told Tan that it wouldn't be a problem. I agree, no-one stood up to his ideas on the board, but for you to state that people on the board encouraged him is without any basis at all. Similarly, Borley offered no resistance to Hammam when he floated similar ideas that were greeted less than favourably with a fans get together in the board room of Ninian Park.
I appreciate Borley was funding the club from his kids' inheritance etc etc, and I appreciate he needed his money back. What I could not appreciate was his bare faced lies that if the club didn't get the "investment" (plus 7% interest, must be paid back) they would hit the wall. Some people still swallow that as a fact, but the club had steered clear of the HMRC waters under TG's stewardship and the club were building for a promising future built on solid foundations and with the club living within its means.
Tan goes on about how he has to put in millions every year to keep the club alive. What he doesn't point out is that the club are losing that money because of decisions he made a few years ago (and I'm not talking merely the rebrand here).
People here quite rightly say that Tan should be judged on actions, in which case the often postponed debt to equity exercise. How is that progressing?
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Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?
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Originally Posted by
Nick
Very well said TH63.
Except he's made a large amount of it up.
And, he's essentially telling anyone who still finds Tan's actions reprehensible to just get over it. It still amazes me that there is more ire directed towards fellow fans for still demanding answers to Tan's years of folly, than there is to Tan for creating an almighty mess in a short amount of time. I guess many live in hope that he'll do it all again and plow millions on expensive players with the promise of the club being debt free in another 5 years.
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Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?
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Originally Posted by
Kris
Ask Vincent Tan whose club it is.
I would hope he see's the club as his...I think you have a serious issue understanding the difference between supporting/following something and actually owning it. I can't imagine what you must be like on Instagram!
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Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kris
Except he's made a large amount of it up.
And, he's essentially telling anyone who still finds Tan's actions reprehensible to just get over it. It still amazes me that there is more ire directed towards fellow fans for still demanding answers to Tan's years of folly, than there is to Tan for creating an almighty mess in a short amount of time. I guess many live in hope that he'll do it all again and plow millions on expensive players with the promise of the club being debt free in another 5 years.
Get over it
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Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?
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Originally Posted by
J R Hartley
Get over it
That doesn't invalidate my argument at all.
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Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?
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Originally Posted by
Blooburd
I would hope he see's the club as his...I think you have a serious issue understanding the difference between supporting/following something and actually owning it. I can't imagine what you must be like on Instagram!
I'm not dense enough to be on Instagram.
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Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?
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Originally Posted by
Kris
I'm not dense enough to be on Instagram.
Id say that's a wise decision for you :)
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Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?
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Originally Posted by
Kris
I'm not dense enough to be on Instagram.
Are you sure?
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Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?
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Originally Posted by
Kris
I'm not dense enough to be on Instagram.
Blimey, I'd wager that the fun never stops at Chez Kris.
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Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?
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Originally Posted by
Blooburd
Id say that's a wise decision for you :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dr Lecter
Are you sure?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sgt. Pepper
Blimey, I'd wager that the fun never stops at Chez Kris.
The stupidity never ends with you three.
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Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kris
That is completely not what you said a few posts back. You stated, almost factually, that someone told Tan that it wouldn't be a problem. I agree, no-one stood up to his ideas on the board, but for you to state that people on the board encouraged him is without any basis at all. Similarly, Borley offered no resistance to Hammam when he floated similar ideas that were greeted less than favourably with a fans get together in the board room of Ninian Park.
I appreciate Borley was funding the club from his kids' inheritance etc etc, and I appreciate he needed his money back. What I could not appreciate was his bare faced lies that if the club didn't get the "investment" (plus 7% interest, must be paid back) they would hit the wall. Some people still swallow that as a fact, but the club had steered clear of the HMRC waters under TG's stewardship and the club were building for a promising future built on solid foundations and with the club living within its means.
Tan goes on about how he has to put in millions every year to keep the club alive. What he doesn't point out is that the club are losing that money because of decisions he made a few years ago (and I'm not talking merely the rebrand here).
People here quite rightly say that Tan should be judged on actions, in which case the often postponed debt to equity exercise. How is that progressing?
I said he was ill advised. I agree that phrase is open to interpretation, but he was ill-advised to do it.
Did someone actually say "it won't be a problem?" Obviously I don't know, I wasn't there. But I think it's fair to say that either someone DID say that or at least didn't tell him it would be.
I think you, and the gunman, are taking my original post literally, picking up on one small extract out of context to discredit my opinion and glossing over the meaning behind it.
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Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kris
The stupidity never ends with you three.
The sense never even begins with you Mr Moans.
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Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kris
That is completely not what you said a few posts back. You stated, almost factually, that someone told Tan that it wouldn't be a problem. I agree, no-one stood up to his ideas on the board, but for you to state that people on the board encouraged him is without any basis at all. Similarly, Borley offered no resistance to Hammam when he floated similar ideas that were greeted less than favourably with a fans get together in the board room of Ninian Park.
I appreciate Borley was funding the club from his kids' inheritance etc etc, and I appreciate he needed his money back. What I could not appreciate was his bare faced lies that if the club didn't get the "investment" (plus 7% interest, must be paid back) they would hit the wall. Some people still swallow that as a fact, but the club had steered clear of the HMRC waters under TG's stewardship and the club were building for a promising future built on solid foundations and with the club living within its means.
Tan goes on about how he has to put in millions every year to keep the club alive. What he doesn't point out is that the club are losing that money because of decisions he made a few years ago (and I'm not talking merely the rebrand here).
People here quite rightly say that Tan should be judged on actions, in which case the often postponed debt to equity exercise. How is that progressing?
I said he was ill advised. I agree that phrase is open to interpretation, but he was ill-advised to do it.
Did someone actually say "it won't be a problem?" Obviously I don't know, I wasn't there. But I think it's fair to say that either someone DID say that or at least didn't tell him it would be.
I think you, and the gunman, are taking my original post literally, picking up on one small extract out of context to discredit my opinion and glossing over the meaning behind it.
Quite how you claim my "didn't it go along the lines of...?" is "stated almost factually" is clutching at straws a bit surely?
Finally, at no point have I told you to "get over it" I thought I was very clear that I understood why people can't, I really do but speaking as someone who is the wrong side of 50, trust me, life is far too precious to be lived in the past.
You can choose to dwell on the past, think of city with anger, sadness or ambivalence if you wish, that is absolutely your choice how you live your life. I just think it's a little sad, that's all.
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Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TH63
I said he was ill advised. I agree that phrase is open to interpretation, but he was ill-advised to do it.
Did someone actually say "it won't be a problem?" Obviously I don't know, I wasn't there. But I think it's fair to say that either someone DID say that or at least didn't tell him it would be.
I think you, and the gunman, are taking my original post literally, picking up on one small extract out of context to discredit my opinion and glossing over the meaning behind it.
Apologies if I have, you've now corrected it and I agree that no-one told Tan it would be a problem. Of course, Tan DID know there was a problem because he reversed his decision, with a letter that painted a grim future for the club (one without Nicky Maynard and Kim Bo Kyung) and as soon as that letter was published a number of fans immediately spoke for all of us by apologising profusely to Tan. So, going back to the OP and the inflammatory Echo article that portrays more ignorance than actual newsworthiness, the fans effectively forgave Tan when he initially reversed his decision and threatened to take his ball home.
Tan has his apologists, he always will while there's a fat wallet in his pocket that may hold the key to Premier League football.
Finally you did say
"but you must surely get to the point of forgetting about it and going back to enjoying your football or you REALLY forget about it and go and do something that does make you happy. If posting the same old arguments about Tan is what makes people happy then surely they need to reevaluate their life choices."
That is an elaborate way of saying "get over it".
Likewise, I think it's sad that someone who stuck two fingers up to the club's fine history and tradition still gets allowances from people purely because he could decide to fund a promotion push at some case. Each to their own and all that.
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Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?
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Originally Posted by
Sgt. Pepper
The sense never even begins with you Mr Moans.
You are adding nothing to the thread other than playground insults, so I'm using the ignore user button. Tara love.
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Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kris
Apologies if I have, you've now corrected it and I agree that no-one told Tan it would be a problem. Of course, Tan DID know there was a problem because he reversed his decision, with a letter that painted a grim future for the club (one without Nicky Maynard and Kim Bo Kyung) and as soon as that letter was published a number of fans immediately spoke for all of us by apologising profusely to Tan. So, going back to the OP and the inflammatory Echo article that portrays more ignorance than actual newsworthiness, the fans effectively forgave Tan when he initially reversed his decision and threatened to take his ball home.
Tan has his apologists, he always will while there's a fat wallet in his pocket that may hold the key to Premier League football.
SOME fans apologised I agree, but mostly due to the let's be honest here, borderline racist comments.
I also believe that those of us who kept going to games did more to change his mind than any boycott. Evidence? His attitude to the boycott era was pretty much "I'll find new fans" We all wore blue (after the people who just wanted to see us in the prem buggered off) Every week on 19.27 we chanted we'll always be blue until finally we/dalman/choo/ mrs tan convinced him to change.
We needed him then, to stave off HMRC and possibly the end of the football club, not for promotion.
When did I forgive him? The day I saw city run out back in their rightful colours.
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Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TH63
SOME fans apologised I agree, but mostly due to the let's be honest here, borderline racist comments.
I also believe that those of us who kept going to games did more to change his mind than any boycott. Evidence? His attitude to the boycott era was pretty much "I'll find new fans" We all wore blue (after the people who just wanted to see us in the prem buggered off) Every week on 19.27 we chanted we'll always be blue until finally we/dalman/choo/ mrs tan convinced him to change.
We needed him then, to stave off HMRC and possibly the end of the football club, not for promotion.
When did I forgive him? The day I saw city run out back in their rightful colours.
You don't find using his mum was pathetic or weird? Perhaps I have more respect for my mother than he does his, so maybe I struggle to understand his methodology.
He changed his mind after the crowds started plummeting and he needed to win them back. Wasn't there a cup game against Colchester that was attended by fewer than 5,000 (a good crowd in my day)? Didn't he change his mind shortly after this televised game?
A lot of fans panicked when the carrot of £100m investment (aka a loan) was removed. It was almost pitiful to watch.
Fans were standing at 19:27 in the Championship season - I was one, and was yanked down by a red scarf wearing bloke who told me "we play in fvcking red now". The protest grew when results got bad, just as Tan's standing has improved as the club win 5 from 5. Who'd a thunk it?
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Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kris
You are adding nothing to the thread other than playground insults, so I'm using the ignore user button. Tara love.
:rolleyes:
I contributed - succinctly - much earlier in the thread.
if you want to stick your fingers in your ears and just keep shouting about how much you still hate Tan, that's up to you.
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Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TH63
I said he was ill advised. I agree that phrase is open to interpretation, but he was ill-advised to do it.
Did someone actually say "it won't be a problem?" Obviously I don't know, I wasn't there. But I think it's fair to say that either someone DID say that or at least didn't tell him it would be.
Do you honestly believe that? I think he knew very well that it would be unpopular, but felt his investment entitled him to do what he wanted with the club. There was even an acknowledgment in the club's rebrand statement, so it had clearly been considered.
"We are only too aware that the change of colour is a radical and some would say revolutionary move which will be met with unease and apprehension by a number of supporters, along with being seen as controversial by many."
I'm not suggesting we shouldn't move on now he has reversed it, but let's be real about what actually happened.
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Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?
Groundhog Day zzzzz
Terence you're getting roped in.
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Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Baloo
Do you honestly believe that? I think he knew very well that it would be unpopular, but felt his investment entitled him to do what he wanted with the club. There was even an acknowledgment in the club's rebrand statement, so it had clearly been considered.
"We are only too aware that the change of colour is a radical and some would say revolutionary move which will be met with unease and apprehension by a number of supporters, along with being seen as controversial by many."
I'm not suggesting we shouldn't move on now he has reversed it, but let's be real about what actually happened.
:thumbup:
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Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J R Hartley
Groundhog Day zzzzz
Terence you're getting roped in.
No he isn't. We're having a discussion that doesn't involve petty insults despite our obvious lack of agreement. There's not much more to say on the matter though, and the Echo have got their talking point from yet another click-bait story that has roped us all in.
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Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kris
No he isn't. We're having a discussion that doesn't involve petty insults despite our obvious lack of agreement. There's not much more to say on the matter though, and the Echo have got their talking point from yet another click-bait story that has roped us all in.
You're just repeating things you have said hundreds, possibly thousands of times.
Utterly pointless
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Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kris
You don't find using his mum was pathetic or weird? Perhaps I have more respect for my mother than he does his, so maybe I struggle to understand his methodology.
He changed his mind after the crowds started plummeting and he needed to win them back. Wasn't there a cup game against Colchester that was attended by fewer than 5,000 (a good crowd in my day)? Didn't he change his mind shortly after this televised game?
A lot of fans panicked when the carrot of £100m investment (aka a loan) was removed. It was almost pitiful to watch.
Fans were standing at 19:27 in the Championship season - I was one, and was yanked down by a red scarf wearing bloke who told me "we play in fvcking red now". The protest grew when results got bad, just as Tan's standing has improved as the club win 5 from 5. Who'd a thunk it?
Using his mum was weird but the alternative was "you were right I was wrong" and that just isn't in Tan's DNA.
Yes there was that cup game, but what was the attendance against Portsmouth in the cup this season?
Sure, some fans panicked a bit because they thought the withdrawal of his investment would effectively kill the club. Would it have done? Who knows, but who wanted to take that chance? And do you really think a couple of panicky letters in the Echo made any difference?
I had similar arguments with Reds in the ground. Their actions were shameful. Funny that since we got relegated I've not seen the protagonists since.
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Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J R Hartley
Groundhog Day zzzzz
Terence you're getting roped in.
WHO THE FVCK IS TERENCE?
And, just like you do, I'll post what I want, to who I want, when I want on whatever subject I want.
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Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J R Hartley
You're just repeating things you have said hundreds, possibly thousands of times.
Utterly pointless
What is the point to anything we post?
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Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TH63
WHO THE FVCK IS TERENCE?
And, just like you do, I'll post what I want, to who I want, when I want on whatever subject I want.
Then don't moan about people wasting their lives on the rebrand subject you hypocrite
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Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kris
What is the point to anything we post?
To give our opinions and learn new things about people.
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Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TH63
Using his mum was weird but the alternative was "you were right I was wrong" and that just isn't in Tan's DNA.
Yes there was that cup game, but what was the attendance against Portsmouth in the cup this season?
Sure, some fans panicked a bit because they thought the withdrawal of his investment would effectively kill the club. Would it have done? Who knows, but who wanted to take that chance? And do you really think a couple of panicky letters in the Echo made any difference?
I had similar arguments with Reds in the ground. Their actions were shameful. Funny that since we got relegated I've not seen the protagonists since.
The Portsmouth cup game is irrelevant, unless you're suggesting Tan should have used the low attendance to reverse the reverse of the reverse of the reverse of the rebrand (think I got them all).
Tan and/or the club actually mentioned the e-mails of support at a later stage, so whilst I agree that the letters of support made no difference, they were tools/weapons in his arsenal. He played the fanbase like a fiddle, especially with that initial reversal. I find it as unsavoury now as I did then but it certainly does not pre-occupy my time and the only reason we are discussing this now is because of a typical international break article in a failing rag.
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Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Baloo
Do you honestly believe that? I think he knew very well that it would be unpopular, but felt his investment entitled him to do what he wanted with the club. There was even an acknowledgment in the club's rebrand statement, so it had clearly been considered.
"We are only too aware that the change of colour is a radical and some would say revolutionary move which will be met with unease and apprehension by a number of supporters, along with being seen as controversial by many."
I'm not suggesting we shouldn't move on now he has reversed it, but let's be real about what actually happened.
Yeah I do believe it and if anything that statement supports my belief that the board knew there may be controversy but took his money anyway.
They either said to tan
"this is a really bad idea but feck em, give us the money"
"there may be some pushback but not much so don't worry about it"
Or they said nothing.
Either way I stand by my opinion that nobody told Tan he was about to become public enemy number one, if they had, then he wouldn't have put all that money in.
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Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J R Hartley
Then don't moan about people wasting their lives on the rebrand subject you hypocrite
I'm not moaning, I was having a reasonable discussion with Kris until you stuck your oar in. You've picked up on ONE part of my post and taken it out of context. I understand and respect Kris' opinion I just think it's a shame.
For someone who doesn't like to be told what he can and cannot say, you're pretty good at doing so yourself and you call ME hypocrite?
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Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TH63
Yeah I do believe it and if anything that statement supports my belief that the board knew there may be controversy but took his money anyway.
They either said to tan
"this is a really bad idea but feck em, give us the money"
"there may be some pushback but not much so don't worry about it"
Or they said nothing.
Either way I stand by my opinion that nobody told Tan he was about to become public enemy number one, if they had, then he wouldn't have put all that money in.
Did Tan become public enemy number 1? My last game was Cardiff 0 Charlton 0, and Tan was applauded and cheered onto the pitch, so I guess it must have been during the relegation months that public opinion altered. And, now the club is top of the league, we can discuss that the mood has mellowed and that fans are really forgiving Tan rather than celebrating a great start to the season.
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Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kris
The Portsmouth cup game is irrelevant, unless you're suggesting Tan should have used the low attendance to reverse the reverse of the reverse of the reverse of the rebrand (think I got them all).
Tan and/or the club actually mentioned the e-mails of support at a later stage, so whilst I agree that the letters of support made no difference, they were tools/weapons in his arsenal. He played the fanbase like a fiddle, especially with that initial reversal. I find it as unsavoury now as I did then but it certainly does not pre-occupy my time and the only reason we are discussing this now is because of a typical international break article in a failing rag.
I only mention the Pompey game because it was a cup game (same cup?) and had a similar shite attendance so I think it is relevant.
The rest of your post? :thumbup: