And some of you lot are going to vote for these idiots

BBC News - Labour withdraws support for Rochdale candidate
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68280098

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

BBC News - Laura Trott, Chief Secretary to the Treasury falters over 'basic' debt question
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68250372

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Send for Diane Abbot

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

BBC News - Labour withdraws support for Rochdale candidate
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68280098

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Oh dear Muslim vote slipping through thier fingers as they go all Tory .

Get yer pale blue rossette out ready to vote for the next Tory party .

Next they will be cancelling net zero funding

Priceless stuff.

Folk are so gullible .

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Oh dear Muslim vote slipping through thier fingers as they go all Tory .

Get yer pale blue rossette out ready to vote for the next Tory party .

Next they will be cancelling net zero funding

Priceless stuff.

Folk are so gullible .

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They are not stupid enough to vote for those clowns

Good to see you properly condemn it earlier Sludges, credit where it's due 👍

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Good to see you properly condemn it earlier Sludges, credit where it's due 👍

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Well I am amazed he wasn't suspended straight away

They are saying more evidence has come to the surface which has led to further action but I think that's bollocks

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Well I am amazed he wasn't suspended straight away

They are saying more evidence has come to the surface which has led to further action but I think that's bollocks

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Attachment 6055

Sir Keir distancing himself from the next Labour MP for Rochdale.....
bollocks really? , he has made some allegations - are you aware of them ? - do you agree with them ?, do you still think they are "bollocks" ?

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Originally Posted by pipster

Attachment 6055

Sir Keir distancing himself from the next Labour MP for Rochdale.....
bollocks really? , he has made some allegations - are you aware of them ? - do you agree with them ?, do you still think they are "bollocks" ?

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You are not understanding

I think labour knew straight away about all the allegations and what this bloke said

I think instead of booting him out they tried to soften things but it's got worse so they are saying they are acting decisively etc etc ......I think the acting decisively bit is bollocks .......I have no idea of the content of any further nonsense or if its bollocks or not , I havnt commented on that and I am not really interested

You have though wether the new stuff is bollocks I have no idea that's your area as you have brought it up

Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
"Well I am amazed he wasn't suspended straight away
They are saying more evidence has come to the surface which has led to further action but I think that's bollocks"

You either think it is bollocks or you dont - which is it ?
Do you agree with what he said or not ?

I have heard what he said - and (believe it or not) I can understand why a racist like him wants desparately to believe it - as it gives a positive affirmation to his seemingly deeply held anti semitic views - which Labour turned a blind eye to.

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

Well I don't know whether this is purely a conspiracy theory or whether there may be some credence to it. I don't have access to the facts of the situation so I can't really form an opinion.

However, if we talk in pure Trumpesque transactional terms it's easy to see the value in allowing 1200 to die and 240 to be captured if it enables the slaughter of 30 times the number (and growing) along with the big prize of an ethnically cleansed territory.

War, nationalism and racism are ugly beasts and I guess none of us common people truly understand the Machiavellian properties that promote them

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Surely what we're seeing in Israel proves what we all know deep down and that is multi culturism doesn't work and leads to conclict with social break down.

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Originally Posted by pipster

Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
"Well I am amazed he wasn't suspended straight away
They are saying more evidence has come to the surface which has led to further action but I think that's bollocks"

You either think it is bollocks or you dont - which is it ?
Do you agree with what he said or not ?

I have heard what he said - and (believe it or not) I can understand why a racist like him wants desparately to believe it - as it gives a positive affirmation to his seemingly deeply held anti semitic views - which Labour turned a blind eye to.

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No , you are clearly not understanding or deliberately being a clown here

I said I think that the labour party approach to this incident is bollocks and they have been caught out and instead of stamping on it straight away they have messed up , tried to fanny about and their dithering is clearly a load of bollocks ......

As to what he actually said being bollocks .......which is what you are saying I have said .....I didn't.... well its clear that the idea that Israel deliberately allowed this attack to happen has its supporters ......and 2 posters on here have suggested there may be an element of truth in that .......then I think that's stretching things

I think genuine criticism of Israel and zionism is perfectly justified and if you think that this person is a racist then that's your view

I think there's a lot of idiots on both sides of this conflict but a racist or xenopobe would say I hate jews or I hate Arabs.......if he's said that sort of thing then asking if I agree with that sort of comment is an idiotic question

I think you are more concerned with this idea that socialists are racists in order to gain political points which is utter nonsense than the hopelessness of Labour in dealing with these remarks ......the bollocks point I refer to and the absolute car crash they have made of this

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

No , you are clearly not understanding or deliberately being a clown here

I said I think that the labour party approach to this incident is bollocks and they have been caught out and instead of stamping on it straight away they have messed up , tried to fanny about and their dithering is clearly a load of bollocks ......

As to what he actually said being bollocks .......which is what you are saying I have said .....I didn't.... well its clear that the idea that Israel deliberately allowed this attack to happen has its supporters ......and 2 posters on here have suggested there may be an element of truth in that .......then I think that's stretching things

I think genuine criticism of Israel and zionism is perfectly justified and if you think that this person is a racist then that's your view

I think there's a lot of idiots on both sides of this conflict but a racist or xenopobe would say I hate jews or I hate Arabs.......if he's said that sort of thing then asking if I agree with that sort of comment is an idiotic question

I think you are more concerned with this idea that socialists are racists in order to gain political points which is utter nonsense than the hopelessness of Labour in dealing with these remarks ......the bollocks point I refer to and the absolute car crash they have made of this

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All he's ever interested in when it comes to politics is whacking the Labour party and keeping quiet when the weekly, or sometimes daily, bad news story hits the Conservative party.

Over the last week or so, Labour have shown once again why my vote will be going to them in the General Election on nothing more than anti Tory grounds - there's barely anything about the party these days which fires me with any enthusiasm. That said, maybe there would be if the current version of Labour actually stood for anything - the few policies they've come out with since the 2019 election have nearly all been shelved or watered down.

Regarding the Rochdale by election, Labour were in a bit of a damned if they do, damned if they don't position, but, that said, I cannot be more critical of them than to say they looked like torys yesterday morning as they sent someone out to do the media rounds saying they were sticking with Azhar Ali and then ten hours later they weren't as they finally arrived at the decision they should have made in the first place.

In my experience, people like pipster are wasting their time trying to stir up a party political argument on here on subjects where Labour are clearly in the wrong because the large majority of left leaning people are quick enough to criticise the party themselves anyway. It's an attitude which can often cost the party at the ballot box, but I'd prefer it to what happens on the other side where tory supporters too often fall in behind the party line automatically, something which, certainly since 2019, has often involved defending the indefensible.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

All he's ever interested in when it comes to politics is whacking the Labour party and keeping quiet when the weekly, or sometimes daily, bad news story hits the Conservative party.

Over the last week or so, Labour have shown once again why my vote will be going to them in the General Election on nothing more than anti Tory grounds - there's barely anything about the party these days which fires me with any enthusiasm. That said, maybe there would be if the current version of Labour actually stood for anything - the few policies they've come out with since the 2019 election have nearly all been shelved or watered down.

Regarding the Rochdale by election, Labour were in a bit of a damned if they do, damned if they don't position, but, that said, I cannot be more critical of them than to say they looked like torys yesterday morning as they sent someone out to do the media rounds saying they were sticking with Azhar Ali and then ten hours later they weren't as they finally arrived at the decision they should have made in the first place.

In my experience, people like pipster are wasting their time trying to stir up a party political argument on here on subjects where Labour are clearly in the wrong because the large majority of left leaning people are quick enough to criticise the party themselves anyway. It's an attitude which can often cost the party at the ballot box, but I'd prefer it to what happens on the other side where tory supporters too often fall in behind the party line automatically, something which, certainly since 2019, has often involved defending the indefensible.

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I would like to see the labour party fold and a left of centre alternative rise up but it's not going to happen in my lifetime

Therefore I have to hold my nose and vote for starmer until there is a better choice because I will never vote conservative

I personally think its laughable to see Labour making all these excuses as they could have stamped things out immediately

A staggering cock up

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

All he's ever interested in when it comes to politics is whacking the Labour party and keeping quiet when the weekly, or sometimes daily, bad news story hits the Conservative party.

Over the last week or so, Labour have shown once again why my vote will be going to them in the General Election on nothing more than anti Tory grounds - there's barely anything about the party these days which fires me with any enthusiasm. That said, maybe there would be if the current version of Labour actually stood for anything - the few policies they've come out with since the 2019 election have nearly all been shelved or watered down.

Regarding the Rochdale by election, Labour were in a bit of a damned if they do, damned if they don't position, but, that said, I cannot be more critical of them than to say they looked like torys yesterday morning as they sent someone out to do the media rounds saying they were sticking with Azhar Ali and then ten hours later they weren't as they finally arrived at the decision they should have made in the first place.

In my experience, people like pipster are wasting their time trying to stir up a party political argument on here on subjects where Labour are clearly in the wrong because the large majority of left leaning people are quick enough to criticise the party themselves anyway. It's an attitude which can often cost the party at the ballot box, but I'd prefer it to what happens on the other side where tory supporters too often fall in behind the party line automatically, something which, certainly since 2019, has often involved defending the indefensible.

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That first sentence is a little ironic Bob..

Bob, you , Sludge and a few others on here do exactly the same thing as you accuse me of. You both have your tongues up the labour party’s rear end, you can come all the ‘it’s not really a socialist party’ rubbish, not buying that for a second.
And the only reason I ever post political stuff is to balance up the one eyed political bias coming from a few posters.
Good luck with the new Labour Party Rochdale MP, apparently a very ‘educated’ man, so he can’t claim he didn’t know what he was saying.I’m sure he will do the Labour Party proud. There appear to be a significant minority of labour MPs that have the same opinion, re it being an Israeli cover up and also agreeing with him re not allowing the flag of Israel to be flown after the massacre- in case it caused offence.

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Originally Posted by pipster

Bob, you , Sludge and a few others on here do exactly the same thing as you accuse me of. You both have your tongues up the labour party’s rear end, you can come all the ‘it’s not really a socialist party’ rubbish, not buying that for a second.
And the only reason I ever post political stuff is to balance up the one eyed political bias coming from a few posters.
Good luck with the new Labour Party Rochdale MP, apparently a very ‘educated’ man, so he can’t claim he didn’t know what he was saying.I’m sure he will do the Labour Party proud. There appear to be a significant minority of labour MPs that have the same opinion, re it being an Israeli cover up and also agreeing with him re not allowing the flag of Israel to be flown after the massacre- in case it caused offence.

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Bollocks

I couldn't care a toss about socialism it's all nonsense

There seems to be one person on here crying wolf about racism when the real story here which non Tories agree on is how inept the Labour party has been and that they should have acted straight away

Trying to pull people into a debate as to what was said is not going to work

You need to go back to school

I haven't read all of Ali's social media posts, or listened to the tape that was referenced yesterday, but it is interesting that most of the print media headlines (including the Mail and other leading Tory papers) are describing his words as an 'Israel slur' not as anti Semitism. I may have missed some examples of his racism or anti Semitism - but I genuinely haven't heard any yet.

He has bought into a crude conspiracy theory about the Israeli state (or elements of it) allowing the Hamas attack to take place so that they had an excuse for massive revenge attacks on Gaza (and the West Bank) with the intention of ethnically cleansing Palestinians from those areas, expanding the illegal West Bank settlements, and re-occupying Gaza. The evidence doesn't back up that conspiracy theory. There is a 2 + 2, but it doesn't add up to 5.

Yet most of the press and media commentaries on the Rochdale 'crisis' are presented in terms of 'Labour's anti Semitism problem'. Whether you believe the 'problem' from 2015 in Labour was anti Semitism, or the cack-handed way the allegations of anti Semitism were handled, it does seem to be a jump (unless I have missed something) to describe the Rochdale fiasco in those terms.

Unless of course you have bought into the idea that criticism of the State of Israel or its' state ideology is anti Semitic. Some posters here clearly have - and perversely end up adopting their own anti Semitic stance (of conflating the actions and interests of Israel with those of Jews across the world).

Sludge and you need to go back to bed sunshine

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

That first sentence is a little ironic Bob..

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I'm definitely interested in whacking the Tory party, but, as the rest of my message shows, I have no problem with being critical of the Labour party and I have at times stared off threads on here where I have had a go at Starmer and his party. To be fair to you, I have seen you be critical of the current UK Government occasionally, but you have also done a fair bit of the "defending the indefensible" I talked about.

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Originally Posted by pipster

Sludge and you need to go back to bed sunshine

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If you haven't got anything to say, maybe it would be better to say nothing?

Just trying to be helpful. :thumbup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pipster

Bob, you , Sludge and a few others on here do exactly the same thing as you accuse me of. You both have your tongues up the labour party’s rear end, you can come all the ‘it’s not really a socialist party’ rubbish, not buying that for a second.
And the only reason I ever post political stuff is to balance up the one eyed political bias coming from a few posters.
Good luck with the new Labour Party Rochdale MP, apparently a very ‘educated’ man, so he can’t claim he didn’t know what he was saying.I’m sure he will do the Labour Party proud. There appear to be a significant minority of labour MPs that have the same opinion, re it being an Israeli cover up and also agreeing with him re not allowing the flag of Israel to be flown after the massacre- in case it caused offence.

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Again, it reads like you see my name on a post and jump to all sorts of conclusions without bothering to read what I say. I spent most of the message being critical of the Labour Party with the one very slight qualification that there is a damned if they do and damned if they don't element to the Rochdale mess, but, even then, it could have been handled so much better. by Labour.

Historically, there has been far more dissenting voices within the Labour party compared to the Conservatives and it's often been to their disadvantage. Maybe the situation is changing though because of the Judean People's Front and People'sFront of Judea nature of today's tory party, but you'll still be there backing them no matter what - it's what you do.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I'm definitely interested in whacking the Tory party, but, as the rest of my message shows, I have no problem with being critical of the Labour party and I have at times stared off threads on here where I have had a go at Starmer and his party. To be fair to you, I have seen you be critical of the current UK Government occasionally, but you have also done a fair bit of the "defending the indefensible" I talked about.

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The thing for me, and you won't believe me, but I genuinely have no particular like for the Conservatives and I really have voted for Labour more. What I object to it's the over-reactoion to things, the sweeping statements and the demonisation of people based on how they vote.

I find most strong opinions based on parties is based on pretty flimsy and selective evidence (like football teams or religion) and people really should be more open minded about it.

I also do think that it is not in our interest in Wales that we hold the WG to such low standards. If all the people in Wales that spend so much time talking about Westminster dedicated even a quarter of their time looking at what goes on in Cardiff Bay then we would all be in a better place.

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Originally Posted by pipster

Sludge and you need to go back to bed sunshine

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I am certainly not going to bed with a tory

So please leave me alone you twisted old fruitcake

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Tory

Cttt

Old

Senile

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You're angry because in this thread i said you're not menancing. How pathetic is that? Parading around a football message board TRYING to intimidate people who don't share your politics, woooo i bet everyones shitting themselves 😆

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Originally Posted by NinianOpinion1927

You're angry because in this thread i said you're not menancing. How pathetic is that? Parading around a football message board TRYING to intimidate people who don't share your politics, woooo i bet everyones shitting themselves 😆

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I think you are a silly old right wing ponce

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

I think you are a silly old right wing ponce

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See, still angry at not being menacing 😆 What if i told you that i was younger than you?

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Originally Posted by NinianOpinion1927

See, still angry at not being menacing 😆 What if i told you that i was younger than you?

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I would still think you are a silly old right wing ponce

Your views on multi culturalism are embarrassing and belong in the daily mail

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

I would still think you are a silly old right wing ponce

Your views on multi culturalism are embarrassing and belong in the daily mail

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If i'm old and younger than you. what are you? Bit of a silly OLD man really aren't you.

Your views on multiculturalism are that everyone should be forced to accept it, except you who chooses to live in a white area. When you recently moved, was it out of Cowbridge? If so, why didn't you move to Butetown, Riverside or North Grangetown? Is it infact that diversity is not your thing? Because diversity is not our stregnth and it erodes social trust/social cohesion.

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Originally Posted by NinianOpinion1927

If i'm old and younger than you. what are you? Bit of a silly OLD man really aren't you.

Your views on multiculturalism are that everyone should be forced to accept it, except you who chooses to live in a white area. When you recently moved, was it out of Cowbridge? If so, why didn't you move to Butetown, Riverside or North Grangetown? Is it infact that diversity is not your thing? Because diversity is not our stregnth and it erodes social trust/social cohesion.

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You silly old racist

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

You silly old racist

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Why do you choose to live in White enclaves Sludge?

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Originally Posted by NinianOpinion1927

Why do you choose to live in White enclaves Sludge?

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White enclave 😂

Adolf Hitler wannabee

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

White enclave 😂

Adolf Hitler wannabee

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you always have a lot to say for yourself, explain your choices.

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Originally Posted by NinianOpinion1927

you always have a lot to say for yourself, explain your choices.

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European Nationalist

Get the f out of here you daft racist

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

European Nationalist

Get the f out of here you daft racist

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Can't explain your choices can you

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Originally Posted by NinianOpinion1927

Can't explain your choices can you

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You are a racial supremacist

People like you are persona non grata