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Re: Is this a leftie board?
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Originally Posted by
life on mars
You can only judge and what and who you know , I find very committed socialist are glass half full folk ,mainly middle aged older men , and my God they do moan .
Well of course that's the nature of socialism. People who've been unable or just unwilling to make the effort to have influence sit round complaining about the unalterable fact that the world's not perfect, and imagining how much better it'd be if they were in charge.
Since they'll never be in charge of anything they can make extravagant claims about how great they'd make it. They're never going to actually get the chance to do any of it and so they'll never be expected to make good on the claims.
It's like the Welsh Nationalists of the Green Party having policies about nuclear weapons etc. They can say what they like because they know they'll never be in any position to enact the policies
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Re: Is this a leftie board?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
Well of course that's the nature of socialism. People who've been unable or just unwilling to make the effort to have influence sit round complaining about the unalterable fact that the world's not perfect, and imagining how much better it'd be if they were in charge.
Since they'll never be in charge of anything they can make extravagant claims about how great they'd make it. They're never going to actually get the chance to do any of it and so they'll never be expected to make good on the claims.
It's like the Welsh Nationalists of the Green Party having policies about nuclear weapons etc. They can say what they like because they know they'll never be in any position to enact the policies
And most left wingers I know are employed in the safe haven of the public service arena .
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Re: Is this a leftie board?
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Originally Posted by
life on mars
And most left wingers I know are employed in the safe haven of the public service arena .
What bastards. What do you do for a living?
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Re: Is this a leftie board?
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Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
What bastards. What do you do for a living?
self employed working hard
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Re: Is this a leftie board?
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Originally Posted by
life on mars
And most left wingers I know are employed in the safe haven of the public service arena .
Ah yes the old cliche of public v private sector straight out of the Daily Mail
gammon handbook.
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Re: Is this a leftie board?
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Originally Posted by
life on mars
self employed working hard
Oh so you are a tax dodger then.
These silly cliches and labels are so much fun.
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Re: Is this a leftie board?
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Originally Posted by
life on mars
And most left wingers I know are employed in the safe haven of the public service arena .
I've never worked in the public sector and I know plenty of left wing people who don't.
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Re: Is this a leftie board?
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Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
Yeah I think I understand what socialism is and its 100% record of increasing rather than decreasing people's wealth health and Liberty.
It's all very well quoting theorists about something which hasn't been tried yet, but socialism has been tried in various places for well over a century, and it's left millions dead in its wake without improving anything.
I don't think it matters all that much at the point because it's now been pretty much universally rejected and there's no danger of another labour government for as long into the future as we can imagine.
I don't want to start up the whole anti semitism thing here again, but my experience is that leftist posters are the ones who've defended or condoned it.
do you.mean communism?
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Re: Is this a leftie board?
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Originally Posted by
Rjk
do you.mean communism?
No, I meant what I said . There's no actual difference between the two and most communist regimes have called themselves "socialist" haven't they ?
The variety of names they use is because they want to dissociate themselves from the last major **** up of a country under their whacky philosophy. In fact though it's all the same thing, and people have generally caught on to that fact by this point in time.
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Re: Is this a leftie board?
It is reasonable. You can grasp it. It’s simple.
You’re no exploiter, so you’ll understand.
It is good for you. Look into it.
Stupid men call it stupid, and the dirty call it dirty.
It is against dirt and against stupidity.
The exploiters call it a crime.
But we know:
It is the end of all crime.
It is not madness but
The end of madness.
It is not chaos,
But order.
It is the simple thing
That’s hard to do.
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Re: Is this a leftie board?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
No, I meant what I said . There's no actual difference between the two and most communist regimes have called themselves "socialist" haven't they ?
The variety of names they use is because they want to dissociate themselves from the last major **** up of a country under their whacky philosophy. In fact though it's all the same thing, and people have generally caught on to that fact by this point in time.
:thumbup: I was all for it until I realized what I was doing.
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Re: Is this a leftie board?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
It is reasonable. You can grasp it. It’s simple.
You’re no exploiter, so you’ll understand.
It is good for you. Look into it.
Stupid men call it stupid, and the dirty call it dirty.
It is against dirt and against stupidity.
The exploiters call it a crime.
But we know:
It is the end of all crime.
It is not madness but
The end of madness.
It is not chaos,
But order.
It is the simple thing
That’s hard to do.
Are you talking about socialism ?
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Re: Is this a leftie board?
If you are, then do bear in mind that you're quoting Brecht in his defence of an East German regime which was one of the most cruel and brutal socialist tyrannies of modern times.
Do you therefore think we should start carrying on like the former DDR ?
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Re: Is this a leftie board?
thats an argument which was lost long ago
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Re: Is this a leftie board?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
If you are, then do bear in mind that you're quoting Brecht in his defence of an East German regime which was one of the most cruel and brutal socialist tyrannies of modern times.
Do you therefore think we should start carrying on like the former DDR ?
Do bear in mind that you are talking 100% made up nonsense - again.
Yes the poem/song is Brecht's 'In Praise Of Communism' but it was not in defence of the East German Stalinist regime. It was written in 1930-31 as part of his play The Mother, and first performed in 1932. The East German republic was created in 1949. Brecht was writing about the struggle with rising Nazism in the Weimar Republic. It is an old poem/song, but in my opinion it is still as true and powerful today as when it was originally written.
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Re: Is this a leftie board?
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Originally Posted by
Rjk
I've never worked in the public sector and I know plenty of left wing people who don't.
That's fine , everyone has different environments and people they know , it just happens to be my observation based on that experience, it may not reflect everyone's.
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Re: Is this a leftie board?
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Originally Posted by
jon1959
Do bear in mind that you are talking 100% made up nonsense - again.
Yes the poem/song is Brecht's 'In Praise Of Communism' but it was not in defence of the East German Stalinist regime. It was written in 1930-31 as part of his play The Mother, and first performed in 1932. The East German republic was created in 1949. Brecht was writing about the struggle with rising Nazism in the Weimar Republic. It is an old poem/song, but in my opinion it is still as true and powerful today as when it was originally written.
Prepare for the goalposts to be moved Jon.
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Re: Is this a leftie board?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
No, I meant what I said . There's no actual difference between the two and most communist regimes have called themselves "socialist" haven't they ?
The variety of names they use is because they want to dissociate themselves from the last major **** up of a country under their whacky philosophy. In fact though it's all the same thing, and people have generally caught on to that fact by this point in time.
It's all the same Marxists, Far Left , Communism ,Trotskys ,Bolsheviks, Socialist Worker Parties ,CCCP could list for hours , they all gave a single hatred western capitalism, and so many are unsuccessful or popular, those who are are controlled by dictators..
Take your pick from this lot https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_left-wing_political_parties
Sorry not for me
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Re: Is this a leftie board?
What I've seen of this board I would say it's a righty board just like most boards if not every board that I know of that is knocking about.
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Re: Is this a leftie board?
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Originally Posted by
jon1959
Do bear in mind that you are talking 100% made up nonsense - again.
Yes the poem/song is Brecht's 'In Praise Of Communism' but it was not in defence of the East German Stalinist regime. It was written in 1930-31 as part of his play The Mother, and first performed in 1932. The East German republic was created in 1949. Brecht was writing about the struggle with rising Nazism in the Weimar Republic. It is an old poem/song, but in my opinion it is still as true and powerful today as when it was originally written.
Mother Courage and Her Children / Mutter Courage und ihre Kinder
Verfremdungseffekt innit?
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Re: Is this a leftie board?
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Originally Posted by
life on mars
It's all the same Marxists, Far Left , Communism ,Trotskys ,Bolsheviks, Socialist Worker Parties ,CCCP could list for hours , they all gave a single hatred western capitalism, and so many are unsuccessful or popular, those who are are controlled by dictators..
Take your pick from this lot
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...itical_parties
Sorry not for me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nxo0fS2VMM
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Re: Is this a leftie board?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
It's all the same Marxists, Far Left , Communism ,Trotskys ,Bolsheviks, Socialist Worker Parties ,CCCP could list for hours , they all gave a single hatred western capitalism, and so many are unsuccessful or popular, those who are are controlled by dictators..
Take your pick from this lot
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...itical_parties
Sorry not for me
Anymore. Not for you... Anymore.
You said that you voted Labour all of your life until recently, you leftie bastard!
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Re: Is this a leftie board?
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Originally Posted by
Taunton Blue Genie
Beautiful!
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Re: Is this a leftie board?
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Originally Posted by
Heisenberg
Anymore. Not for you... Anymore.
You said that you voted Labour all of your life until recently, you leftie bastard!
It's unlike life on Mars to trip himself up like that
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Re: Is this a leftie board?
why do we always see this absurd reductionism from the right directed towards anyone espousing any kind of left wing views?
if you say the distribution of wealth should be fairer as it is currently skewed too far towards the top 1% they'll accuse you of wanting to live in the GDR or the Soviet Union under an oppressive regime.
it doesn't seem to work the other way i.e. when someone is calling for less state interference in the market they aren't immediately accused of wanting no state at all and to live in a Somali like anarchy.
why do right wingers do this? are they incapable of understanding a nuanced view on things?
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Re: Is this a leftie board?
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Originally Posted by
jon1959
Do bear in mind that you are talking 100% made up nonsense - again.
Yes the poem/song is Brecht's 'In Praise Of Communism' but it was not in defence of the East German Stalinist regime. It was written in 1930-31 as part of his play The Mother, and first performed in 1932. The East German republic was created in 1949. Brecht was writing about the struggle with rising Nazism in the Weimar Republic. It is an old poem/song, but in my opinion it is still as true and powerful today as when it was originally written.
Really ?
What about all the millions socialism killed in the intervening years ?
Whenever it was originally written , it was on plaques and posters all over East Berlin as a prominent feature of their propaganda right up until the people tore them and the wall down. Interesting then that you recommend it as a slogan for the society you'd like to see here.
By the way, why do you need to insult people when you disagree with them ?
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Re: Is this a leftie board?
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Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
Really ?
What about all the millions socialism killed in the intervening years ?
Whenever it was originally written , it was on plaques and posters all over East Berlin as a prominent feature of their propaganda right up until the people tore them and the wall down. Interesting then that you recommend it as a slogan for the society you'd like to see here.
By the way, why do you need to insult people when you disagree with them ?
That doesn't even mean anything. Have you just bought a dictionary and you're copying out random words then trying to arrange them into a sentence or something ?
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Re: Is this a leftie board?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
Really ?
What about all the millions socialism killed in the intervening years ?
Whenever it was originally written , it was on plaques and posters all over East Berlin as a prominent feature of their propaganda right up until the people tore them and the wall down. Interesting then that you recommend it as a slogan for the society you'd like to see here.
By the way, why do you need to insult people when you disagree with them ?
I didn't say I recommend the Brecht poem 'as a slogan for the society' I'd like to see here. It doesn't describe a society. I said I believed the poem tells a truth about the communism Brecht was advancing, and that it was and is a powerful piece of writing. I would have described myself as a communist once - but I'm not sure that is my badge any more. I don't belong to a communist organisation - I am a member of a mass social democratic party with mildly reformist policies and a centrist leader. I'm not his greatest fan but we occupy the same tent - whatever ideas and opinions get thrown around in the pub or on football messageboards.
And where is the insult? You came at me with 'Do bear in mind....' and proceeded to misrepresent and mangle the history and the context of what I had quoted. You did that regularly in the past. It seems to be the way you operate - making big confident statements that turn out to be nonsense (inventions or straw man arguments), and hope nobody picks you up on it. So did you feel insulted because I described your claim as nonsense that Brecht was writing in support of the East German regime 17 years before it was created, or was it because I said 'again' in reference to your track record on here? If you want to understand what an insult really is maybe you should look back at some of your own recent posts on here and the way you describe posters with whom you disagree.
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Re: Is this a leftie board?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
I didn't say I recommend the Brecht poem 'as a slogan for the society' I'd like to see here. It doesn't describe a society. I said I believed the poem tells a truth about the communism Brecht was advancing, and that it was and is a powerful piece of writing. I would have described myself as a communist once - but I'm not sure that is my badge any more. I don't belong to a communist organisation - I am a member of a mass social democratic party with mildly reformist policies and a centrist leader. I'm not his greatest fan but we occupy the same tent - whatever ideas and opinions get thrown around in the pub or on football messageboards.
And where is the insult? You came at me with 'Do bear in mind....' and proceeded to misrepresent and mangle the history and the context of what I had quoted. You did that regularly in the past. It seems to be the way you operate - making big confident statements that turn out to be nonsense (inventions or straw man arguments), and hope nobody picks you up on it. So did you feel insulted because I described your claim as nonsense that Brecht was writing in support of the East German regime 17 years before it was created, or was it because I said 'again' in reference to your track record on here? If you want to understand what an insult really is maybe you should look back at some of your own recent posts on here and the way you describe posters with whom you disagree.
I was referring to the bit where you started by saying my post was "100% made up nonsense "
An odd comment when you were talking about poetry, which is all made up nonsense really. That example certainly is in my opinion, but each to his own as they say.
Now I really don't know which recent posts I've made which insult anyone since I haven't really posted anything here for a long time.
In point of fact I'd seen something posted on another forum about alleged anti semitism here, and that's really why I logged in to see what it was all about. I didn't find any by the way, so I can only imagine they were talking about the anti semitism thread before the election .
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Re: Is this a leftie board?
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Originally Posted by
Heisenberg
Anymore. Not for you... Anymore.
You said that you voted Labour all of your life until recently, you leftie bastard!
yep , sorry I will amend it for you , not for me anymore
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Re: Is this a leftie board?
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Originally Posted by
cyril evans awaydays
That doesn't even mean anything. Have you just bought a dictionary and you're copying out random words then trying to arrange them into a sentence or something ?
here we go , same old same old reply , moral narcissism , oh the purists
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Re: Is this a leftie board?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
yep , sorry I will amend it for you , not for me anymore
Are they not left wing enough for you anymore? You know, like when you supported them in the 80s and 90s :hehe:
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Re: Is this a leftie board?
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Originally Posted by
Heisenberg
Are they not left wing enough for you anymore? You know, like when you supported them in the 80s and 90s :hehe:
I voted for them as they had better ideas, principles and people .
All the quality has been sucked out and replaced by ideology wackos and the nasty brigade .
Let's hope Sir Kier cuts out the remaining bad eggs that sunk the party to such low depths .
My thoughts are replicated across the UK , by the fact they did not appeal and lost to an ineffective May and then get trounced by Boris.
Took some doing that .
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Re: Is this a leftie board?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
I voted for them as they had better ideas, principles and people .
They were left wing ideas, left wing principles and people with left wing ideologies though, ya massive socialist/communist/Bolshevik/Marxist :hehe:
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Re: Is this a leftie board?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Heisenberg
They were left wing ideas, left wing principles and people with left wing ideologies though, ya massive socialist/communist/Bolshevik/Marxist :hehe:
There are many factions of socialism and the flavour of 80 and 90 was centralists socialism, that's why clause 4 was destroyed , after they got rid of Foot who was very far left, we then had Smith , Blair and they appealed to the electorate in the country delivering marvelous victories for the Labour party as its policy wasnot communist/Bolshevik/Marxist flavoured driven ideology politics , it was central democratic socialism, you know the flavour you don't like , strangely though it brought the party success, now that is funny , but I'm guessing you'd rather be in opposition and student type demos politics supporting narrow minded loons like Foot, Corbyn Militant Tendency and Momentum , up the revolution,thankfully it will never happen as you find Sir Kier is more if a John Smith Blairites than a left wing Maxist as he slowly purges the left and now Becky is gone the darling of the left
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Re: Is this a leftie board?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
There are many factions of socialism and the flavour of 80 and 90 was centralists socialism, that's why clause 4 was destroyed , after they got rid of Foot who was very far left, we then had Smith , Blair and they appealed to the electorate in the country delivering marvelous victories for the Labour party as its policy wasnot communist/Bolshevik/Marxist flavoured driven ideology politics , it was central democratic socialism, you know the flavour you don't like , strangely though it brought the party success, now that is funny , but I'm guessing you'd rather be in opposition and student type demos politics supporting narrow minded loons like Foot, Corbyn Militant Tendency and Momentum , up the revolution,thankfully it will never happen as you find Sir Kier is more if a John Smith Blairites than a left wing Maxist as he slowly purges the left and now Becky is gone the darling of the left
he bit lol
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Re: Is this a leftie board?
so with all the labels being banded about what do you call someone who doesn't vote either tory or labour ?
as for leaders think Boris is our worse PM in my lifetime
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Re: Is this a leftie board?
Attachment 3935
slightly off topic, but I thought this was interesting.
in economic terms only Labour are about as left wing as their membership, and close to the centre of the UK population. the current Tories are FAR to the right of even their own members.
there are plenty of current Tory MPs who would happily sell off the NHS and anything else they could.
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Re: Is this a leftie board?
People vote for a brand not for policies, It's hard to articulate but it has been the case for years.
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Re: Is this a leftie board?
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Originally Posted by
Heisenberg
he bit lol
he told it , as it is, and how badly it has gone in the last three elections ,which is sad .