Paul Gascoigne guilty over racist comment

What Gazza said is not acceptable.

IMO , what should have happened is that the offended person should have made his offense known to the perpetrator - in this case Gazza - and also explained , clearly and plainly to Gazza why is was unacceptable. Either in front of the audience, or at first opportunity to do so
If Gazza (or any perp) responded to that with 'whatever , I don't give a shite', or wouldn't speak about it, then he would need dragging through the mire, having utterly deserved it.

Surely, there was no need for tabloid headlines, lawyers, stories of (exaggerated?) hurt - nor fines, nor financial considerations.
Nor further anguish for a clearly fragile Gazza.

He did wrong. He needed telling so, in no uncertain terms. But that's probably all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi

By applying the term "racial abuse" to what Gazza did you are doing a disservice to people who have actually suffered racial abuse in their lives.

I think Mrs R's point is that if Gazza had made the "flattened some grass" joke then we wouldn't be hearing about it now, it wouldn't be in the press and it certainly wouldn't have made it to court.

What if the security guard was a Frenchman and Gazza made some allusion to "frog's legs" or "snails"? Nobody would have batted an eye. It would appear that some people's feelings are worth more than others.

So just for a second, lets take colour, race and religion out of the equation and just say that out of the whole population there are some people that you can safely make jokes about, but there are some that are off limits for one reason or another. That in itself is a form of discrimination that can only eventually lead to animosity.

Treating only certain sections of society with kid gloves is the opposite of the equality the politically correct claim to seek.

In future it would better if whilst deciding where to put the line between a joke and what you've called "racial abuse" is that the first place we look is at the intent of the person who delivered it and in this instance, poor though the joke was, somehow I don't think Gazza's intent was to denigrate an entire race of people with it.

---

Good post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tuerto

What makes you think that you can categorise levels of Racism? i am presuming that you aren't black? if that is the case, you would never know how it feels to have a white person, in a room with a load of other white people, make a joke about the colour of your skin, however meek or piss-poor the joke is. I can't say for sure, but i would say that plenty of black people have had 'gentle' remarks disguised as humour thrown at them over the years, and i'd bet that it pisses them off, because it probably isn't that funny to them. Analise the intent, by all means, what isn't measurable is how the person on the end of the joke feels, what they have experienced, or if they have been victims of racism in the past. Could you see how it would not be a joke to them?

---

Another good post, I've got splinters in my arse over this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi

I'm saying it might not be the best thing for our society if we start hauling people into a courtroom each time someone has their feelings hurt by a piss poor joke, whatever their race, religion, ailment, weight, height...

---

In this case, i agree, although i think that i read somewhere that the majority of racist abuse isn't reported to the police. I think that you are being very dismissive using the term 'feelings hurt' when describing the person on the end of Gazza's comments, Vimana summed it up well for me, but like i said in my earlier post, i doubt you or i have ever been victims of racism that can, and does reach much further that a shit joke by an alcoholic. Anyway, good debate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tuerto

In this case, i agree, although i think that i read somewhere that the majority of racist abuse isn't reported to the police. I think that you are being very dismissive using the term 'feelings hurt' when describing the person on the end of Gazza's comments, Vimana summed it up well for me, but like i said in my earlier post, i doubt you or i have ever been victims of racism that can, and does reach much further that a shit joke by an alcoholic. Anyway, good debate.

---

How is it dismissive to use the phrase 'hurt feelings'? What else is it other than that? If he didn't find Gazza's joke funny and instead got pissed off then how else are we to describe it other than 'hurt feelings'?

There's nothing mystical about non-white people, their feelings get hurt the same as everyone else's. Skin colour doesn't have a monopoly on being offended.

Nobody likes having the piss taken out of them but some people are taught how to deal with it when it inevitably happens as a part of life and others are taught that they should spend their lives being outraged about it.

As for you doubting I've been a victim of racism, as a kid I was once called a 'honky' by my black next-door neighbour. I don't recall if they ended up in the dock for it, I'll have to check.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tuerto

In this case, i agree, although i think that i read somewhere that the majority of racist abuse isn't reported to the police. I think that you are being very dismissive using the term 'feelings hurt' when describing the person on the end of Gazza's comments, Vimana summed it up well for me, but like i said in my earlier post, i doubt you or i have ever been victims of racism that can, and does reach much further that a shit joke by an alcoholic. Anyway, good debate.

---

Playing devils advocate here, but if we are to go on the notion that alcoholism is an illness, haven't you just been similarly insulting there?

As I say I'm playing devils advocate so just interested in your opinion rather than trying to catch you out?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tuerto

In this case, i agree, although i think that i read somewhere that the majority of racist abuse isn't reported to the police. I think that you are being very dismissive using the term 'feelings hurt' when describing the person on the end of Gazza's comments, Vimana summed it up well for me, but like i said in my earlier post, i doubt you or i have ever been victims of racism that can, and does reach much further that a shit joke by an alcoholic. Anyway, good debate.

---

I would have felt more sympathy for Gascoigne had he pled not guilty and stated in his defence that his remarks were innocent banter. Instead he pled guilty then insisted outside court that he wasn't racist.

And I'd bet that both you and the Colonel have been subjected to racism many times, albeit at the extraordinary low level that Gascoigne was prosecuted for.

When will we see someone being prosecuted for referring to a non-Muslim as a kaffir? Or using the term 'whitey'?

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/09...721.1455897487

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi

How is it dismissive to use the phrase 'hurt feelings'? What else is it other than that? If he didn't find Gazza's joke funny and instead got pissed off then how else are we to describe it other than 'hurt feelings'?

There's nothing mystical about non-white people, their feelings get hurt the same as everyone else's. Skin colour doesn't have a monopoly on being offended.

Nobody likes having the piss taken out of them but some people are taught how to deal with it when it inevitably happens as a part of life and others are taught that they should spend their lives being outraged about it.

As for you doubting I've been a victim of racism, as a kid I was once called a 'honky' by my black next-door neighbour. I don't recall if they ended up in the dock for it, I'll have to check.

---

I suppose that for a Black person, the connotations run a whole lot deeper than just 'Hurt Feelings' if only it just was that. I find it incredible that you can be that blase about a subject that has huge historical weight behind it, singling a person out due to the colour of their skin isn't as simple as a throw away remark or insult, there are huge historical connotations behind what some percieve as harmless piss taking. Sure, white people have feelings, and they do get hurt, but the offence you may or may not have felt when your neighbour called you 'Honky' stopped right there, you would have grown to know that his racist comments, as wrong as they were, held no weight, and wouldn't affect your chances in life. There are plenty of black people who have been discriminated against for being black, and that alone. When dickheads like Gazza make moronic observations in the way he did, it manifests in such a way that is beyond being offended.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TruBlue

Playing devils advocate here, but if we are to go on the notion that alcoholism is an illness, haven't you just been similarly insulting there?

As I say I'm playing devils advocate so just interested in your opinion rather than trying to catch you out?

---

Not really, just pointing out his condition, although i can see how it could be construed, so fair point. :thumbup:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.

I would have felt more sympathy for Gascoigne had he pled not guilty and stated in his defence that his remarks were innocent banter. Instead he pled guilty then insisted outside court that he wasn't racist.

And I'd bet that both you and the Colonel have been subjected to racism many times, albeit at the extraordinary low level that Gascoigne was prosecuted for.

---

I can't ever recall being subject to Racism, the only thing i've ever been judged on was where i was brought up-not the most quaint and tranquil of surroundings.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BLUETIT

Can we borrow your roller please. :hehe:

---

Some, um err, 'talented' women have been able to afford a Roller due to their ability on flattened grass.:hehe:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tuerto

I suppose that for a Black person, the connotations run a whole lot deeper than just 'Hurt Feelings' if only it just was that. I find it incredible that you can be that blase about a subject that has huge historical weight behind it, singling a person out due to the colour of their skin isn't as simple as a throw away remark or insult, there are huge historical connotations behind what some percieve as harmless piss taking. Sure, white people have feelings, and they do get hurt, but the offence you may or may not have felt when your neighbour called you 'Honky' stopped right there, you would have grown to know that his racist comments, as wrong as they were, held no weight, and wouldn't affect your chances in life. There are plenty of black people who have been discriminated against for being black, and that alone. When dickheads like Gazza make moronic observations in the way he did, it manifests in such a way that is beyond being offended.

---

Sorry mate but people who hold opinions like yours do more harm than good in the long run. You seem to be implying that merely mentioning the colour of someone's skin is enough to cut them to pieces, causing a lifetime of irreparable physical damage.

As I've already said, there's nothing mystical about the feelings of any particular race of people, nobody likes having the piss taken out of them but treating certain sections of society differently is the definition of discrimination.

Seriously, give non-white people a bit of credit, I'm sure there's plenty of them out there who roll their eyes just as much as anyone every time some white social justice warrior decides to go on the warpath on their behalf over a piss poor joke.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi

Sorry mate but people who hold opinions like yours do more harm than good in the long run.

---

in you're apinion

Let's just for example say the bouncer was disabled, would people think its funny if gazza made fun about his/her disability

Just saying!


This with gazza has been blown all out of proportion not because of the joke but because it's gazza

Simple


Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tuerto

I can't ever recall being subject to Racism, the only thing i've ever been judged on was where i was brought up-not the most quaint and tranquil of surroundings.

---

I don't know you from Adam, but in spite of your assertion I'd still be prepared to bet you have been the butt of racism many times. A white Scottish Hearts fan was convicted of a racially aggravated offence against Craig Bellamy, a white Welshman playing for Celtic. He called him a "wee Welsh bastard." Another white Scottish bloke was done for referring to a white Welsh fella as "boyo." Here: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...o-8689295.html

They and many more people have been done under the Crime and Disorder Act 1998.

You are making assumptions and exaggerating your point in order to make it sound more credible. You've not once dealt with the points i've raised. There's also an irony, certain sections of society have been treated differently because of discrimination, the law and policy makers (not that i have much time for them) have had to step in because of racism, sexism, exploitation. It's not ideal, but that's not the fault of wishy washy white liberals, it's been put in place because of the racists and the bigots.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tigerbaybluebird

Let's just for example say the bouncer was disabled, would people think its funny if gazza made fun about his/her disability

---

How on earth can you compare a disability to the colour of a persons skin ? ? ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blue matt

How on earth can you compare a disability to the colour of a persons skin ? ? ?

---

That's an easy one. Many disabled people are born with their disability, and as no-one chooses the colour of the skin they're born with, nor do those with disabilities.

I've noticed you have a habit for posing moronic questions.

Cracking thread. Some good arguments on both sides.

Everyone on here has been prejudice against me for years for supporting man utd.
The irony. Some people need to get off their high horse ffs mun

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.

That's an easy one. Many disabled people are born with their disability, and as no-one chooses the colour of the skin they're born with, nor do those with disabilities.

I've noticed you have a habit for posing moronic questions.

---

:hehe:

For a old loon, you sometimes have a great way with words. :thumbup:

If someone commented on my lovely bright shiny teeth I wouldn't get offended.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tuerto

You are making assumptions and exaggerating your point in order to make it sound more credible. You've not once dealt with the points i've raised. There's also an irony, certain sections of society have been treated differently because of discrimination, the law and policy makers (not that i have much time for them) have had to step in because of racism, sexism, exploitation. It's not ideal, but that's not the fault of wishy washy white liberals, it's been put in place because of the racists and the bigots.

---

Which of your points have I not dealt with?

I see you've accused me of exaggerating, but that's rich coming from someone who thinks that non-white people have this other-worldly ability to suffer something more than hurt feelings when verbally insulted, but you can't seem to explain exactly what that is. If it's not hurt feelings and it's not physical pain then what is it? Is there some middle ground between the two that white folk haven't evolved the ability to feel?

Also, you keep going on about these "huge historical connotations" and sure, no one can deny they had a shit time historically with slavery at the hands of white men but you act as though every black person that's ever been insulted immediately has a flashback to being whipped by Masser at the plantation, followed by a week-long montage of them sitting outside Bristol harbour contemplating their heritage, then tipping a 40 on Martin Luther King's grave whilst reflecting on their place in modern society.

As anyone who has worked on a building site for any length of time will attest, you hear all kinds of sexist, racist, ageist banter all day long, if it was taken as seriously as you seem to think it's supposed to then nothing would ever get built in this country and half the brickies, sparks and chippies in Britain would be in the dock.

I've been called every Welsh slur under the sun by English co-workers but thankfully I'm able to distinguish their intent and I'm also able to recognise that they aren't the same individuals that perpetrated the thousand-year long oppression and murder of countless of our countrymen, who exploited and killed Welsh workers, flooded our valleys and towns to make their reservoirs, punished the children who dared to speak their own language and endless more atrocities.

Needless to say, my history and feelings don't matter to the PC crowd and it's absolutely because of my skin colour. I'm not trying to court sympathy for that by the way, just once again pointing out (and this has gone ignored by you a few times already) that it's the exact kind of discriminatory behaviour that the politically correct claim to abhor yet consistently live by.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.

That's an easy one. Many disabled people are born with their disability, and as no-one chooses the colour of the skin they're born with, nor do those with disabilities.

I've noticed you have a habit for posing moronic questions.

---

I Think you just might know what i mean,

a disability is a negative ( i am sure most with a disability would agree with that )

are we saying that the colour of your skin is aswell ? ? ?

That Trevor McDonald looks like a negative with his white hair.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ken smith

If someone commented on my lovely bright shiny teeth I wouldn't get offended.

---

Did you stick 'um in a jar of domestos, to get 'um so white. :hehe:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ian gibson

That Trevor McDonald looks like a negative with his white hair.

---

See you in court.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blue matt

I Think you just might know what i mean,

a disability is a negative ( i am sure most with a disability would agree with that )

are we saying that the colour of your skin is aswell ? ? ?

---

You asked a question, I answered it. Disabled people suffer huge discrimination. As for making jokes about them, as with everything else, it has to be taken in context. It's clear from reading this thread that for many racism must revolve around skin colour. It doesn't, not according to the laws in this country..

https://youtu.be/wS2THqZemoc

so this guy can look forward to getting sued for millions ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi

Which of your points have I not dealt with?

I see you've accused me of exaggerating, but that's rich coming from someone who thinks that non-white people have this other-worldly ability to suffer something more than hurt feelings when verbally insulted, but you can't seem to explain exactly what that is. If it's not hurt feelings and it's not physical pain then what is it? Is there some middle ground between the two that white folk haven't evolved the ability to feel?

Also, you keep going on about these "huge historical connotations" and sure, no one can deny they had a shit time historically with slavery at the hands of white men but you act as though every black person that's ever been insulted immediately has a flashback to being whipped by Masser at the plantation, followed by a week-long montage of them sitting outside Bristol harbour contemplating their heritage, then tipping a 40 on Martin Luther King's grave whilst reflecting on their place in modern society.

As anyone who has worked on a building site for any length of time will attest, you hear all kinds of sexist, racist, ageist banter all day long, if it was taken as seriously as you seem to think it's supposed to then nothing would ever get built in this country and half the brickies, sparks and chippies in Britain would be in the dock.

I've been called every Welsh slur under the sun by English co-workers but thankfully I'm able to distinguish their intent and I'm also able to recognise that they aren't the same individuals that perpetrated the thousand-year long oppression and murder of countless of our countrymen, who exploited and killed Welsh workers, flooded our valleys and towns to make their reservoirs, punished the children who dared to speak their own language and endless more atrocities.

Needless to say, my history and feelings don't matter to the PC crowd and it's absolutely because of my skin colour. I'm not trying to court sympathy for that by the way, just once again pointing out (and this has gone ignored by you a few times already) that it's the exact kind of discriminatory behaviour that the politically correct claim to abhor yet consistently live by.

---

Jesus Christ, where to start. I'm not going to counter what you've posted because there isn't any point, we'll just keep going around the houses, posting the same shit but with different words. By the way, i've worked on building sites for 26 years, it's alot better now, alot of the Construction companies have got to grips with the kind of behaviour you talk about, i rarely hear racist shit, and the old ****ers who used to stare at woman and shout from the scaffolding are nearly all dead or retired, building sites are no better or worse than any other work place, apart from the site you've worked on-obviously.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tuerto

Jesus Christ, where to start. I'm not going to counter what you've posted because there isn't any point, we'll just keep going around the houses, posting the same shit but with different words. By the way, i've worked on building sites for 26 years, it's alot better now, alot of the Construction companies have got to grips with the kind of behaviour you talk about, i rarely hear racist shit, and the old ****ers who used to stare at woman and shout from the scaffolding are nearly all dead or retired, building sites are no better or worse than any other work place, apart from the site you've worked on-obviously.

---

No, no I'm still about :thumbup:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tuerto

Jesus Christ, where to start. I'm not going to counter what you've posted because there isn't any point, we'll just keep going around the houses, posting the same shit but with different words. By the way, i've worked on building sites for 26 years, it's alot better now, alot of the Construction companies have got to grips with the kind of behaviour you talk about, i rarely hear racist shit, and the old ****ers who used to stare at woman and shout from the scaffolding are nearly all dead or retired, building sites are no better or worse than any other work place, apart from the site you've worked on-obviously.

---

That's cos youngsters are tech savvy and are too busy doing their perving on their phones

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ian gibson

No, no I'm still about :thumbup:

---

:hehe:

I've met a few black guys on site that take the piss out of themselves.
I remember a couple of years ago I was in hysterics when I was talking to one who lived in swansea when I was working in swindon.
We were on about the traffic everyday and whether it was best to get digs or travel it everyday...
So he turns to me and says "I might stay, cos you got the traffic by the m32 junction, the m5 junction, the bridge tolls then my nostrils"...
I'm like "whadda you mean? Your nostrils?".
He's like "brynglas tunnels innit bruv".

I was rocking. Nearly tipped my tea and all

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BLUETIT

Ok for it to go the other way though is it. ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sG5Kjsz_Y2E

---

I must admit I laughed at most of that 😃