Lots of bitter England fans peeved about Woodburn's call up

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Originally Posted by BlueArmy 86

Funny that, cos Ashley Williams would walk into the England side, but chose us

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It would have seemed a distant dream when he was playing at Stockport though.

They are a funny lot them foreigners in England, must be very difficult realising that Wales now have a superior football team to theirs. No wonder players are choosing us over that Iceland fodder:hehe:

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Originally Posted by chris

gareth bale do me a favour :hehe:, he aint in the same bracket or league as john charles was and he was doing it sixty years ago , before footballers were wrapped in cotton wool and paid millions like they are today .

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We shall see if bale will surpass the great gentle giant, another Welshman. Can't really think of an Englishman doing well abroad??
Bit like the national team....useless

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Originally Posted by Toadstool

Raheem Sterling - born in Jamaica , both parents Jamaican

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and a completely self centered cyunt.

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Originally Posted by goats

We shall see if bale will surpass the great gentle giant, another Welshman. Can't really think of an Englishman doing well abroad??
Bit like the national team....useless

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Bale already has with the trophies he has won at Real and Wales getting further in 2016 than 1958.

Chris you are only going on about John Charles because he played for Weeds which Bale never will so
just go and do one.

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Originally Posted by BlueWales

Bale already has with the trophies he has won at Real and Wales getting further in 2016 than 1958.

Chris you are only going on about John Charles because he played for Weeds which Bale never will so
just go and do one.

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john charles was world class in two positions , centre half and centre forward :thumbup:, its nothing to do with playing for leeds , its different eras altogether , real madrid have always bought the best from all over the world and bale would not get near an all time real madrid eleven :thumbup: , john charles at his peak would have walked into any team in the world.. he is easily the greatest welshman that as ever played in europe by a country mile. :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by chris

john charles was world class in two positions , centre half and centre forward :thumbup:, its nothing to do with playing for leeds , its different eras altogether , real madrid have always bought the best from all over the world and bale would not get near an all time real madrid eleven :thumbup: , john charles at his peak would have walked into any team in the world.. he is easily the greatest welshman that as ever played in europe by a country mile. :thumbup:

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"Bale would not get near an all time real madrid eleven".
Bale is still playing and of course it all depends who is voting.
People will be biased to players for a number of reasons and nostalgia I would think is right up there.
I am assuming that you never saw the great JC play as your posts don't seem to be from a pensioner, therefore one would have to surmise that you would choose him from his Leeds connections and based on others' opinions.

By the way, I would say that Bale is world class in AT LEAST 2 positions.

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Originally Posted by MacAdder

"Bale would not get near an all time real madrid eleven".
Bale is still playing and of course it all depends who is voting.
People will be biased to players for a number of reasons and nostalgia I would think is right up there.
I am assuming that you never saw the great JC play as your posts don't seem to be from a pensioner, therefore one would have to surmise that you would choose him from his Leeds connections and based on others' opinions.

By the way, I would say that Bale is world class in AT LEAST 2 positions.

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its not hard to be supposedly world class in this day and age :hehe: , there is nowhere near the amount of players around of world class ability that was about in the era john charles played in , when real madrid were playing in that era they won the european cup five times on the bounce , puskas , di stefano , gento ,and that was just one team, :hehe: etc gareth bale is the best wales have produced for a long time but he is not up there with the true greats that real madrid have had play for them by a long way and that is only 50 - 60 ,s. :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Dr Lecter

Spot on.

Look at the difference last summer.

One team who were united with no egos (despite having the worlds most expensive player) and looked like they were having the time of their lives, roared on by fantastic support and a nation back home savouring every minute which ultimately resulted in exceeding all expectations.

The other team full of overrated selfish shithouses littered with players that only got in the team on reputation (despite that reputation being built on achieving feck all) looking like they didn't really want to be there, jeered by their arrogant fans who think they have a divine right to walk over 'lesser' teams, ultimately resulting in yet another humiliating early exit - this time by a team of fishermen with beards.

Anyone with half a brain can see that Wales is the logical choice for a young man who wants to enjoy playing for his country.

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I think that enjoyment will soon come to an end where expectancy will kill our support yet again

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Originally Posted by WJ99mobile

I think that enjoyment will soon come to an end where expectancy will kill our support yet again

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:yikes:
"Don't take me home" has only been out a week, let's enjoy the moment eh!
You could well be right but there are a few who haven't given up hopes of WC qualification yet.
A must win in Dublin is a tough one but we seem to thrive on the improbable of late.

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Originally Posted by BlueWales

and a completely self centered cyunt.

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Bit harsh but the Cnut does sum up everything that is wrong in the modern game......with people of his ilk England will always fail, they have no leaders at all.

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Originally Posted by chris

its not hard to be supposedly world class in this day and age :hehe: , there is nowhere near the amount of players around of world class ability that was about in the era john charles played in , when real madrid were playing in that era they won the european cup five times on the bounce , puskas , di stefano , gento ,and that was just one team, :hehe: etc gareth bale is the best wales have produced for a long time but he is not up there with the true greats that real madrid have had play for them by a long way and that is only 50 - 60 ,s. :thumbup:

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Surely it's all relative to who else is around at the same time?

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Originally Posted by lardy

Surely it's all relative to who else is around at the same time?

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yes it is , paul pogba is the most expensive player in the world and SUPPOSEDLY WORLD CLASS :hehe:

i rest my case . :hehe:

I wonder in 20 years will we be discussing Bale as a " great " personally i think we defiantly will

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Originally Posted by blue matt

I wonder in 20 years will we be discussing Bale as a " great " personally i think we defiantly will

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in the era we play in now , bale is up there with the best in the world :thumbup:

if we are talking about all time greats from previous decades , he is a long way down the list. :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by chris

in the era we play in now , bale is up there with the best in the world :thumbup:

if we are talking about all time greats from previous decades , he is a long way down the list. :thumbup:

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Nobody is calling him an alltime great. World class usually means comparison with his peers (as you said, "this day and age"). You're the only person talking about the past, apart from a post saying he's arguably the best Welsh player of all time. Even then, that's Welsh players only and he's certainly not a long way down the list there.


:thumbup:

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Originally Posted by lardy

Nobody is calling him an alltime great. World class usually means comparison with his peers (as you said, "this day and age"). You're the only person talking about the past, apart from a post saying he's arguably the best Welsh player of all time. Even then, that's Welsh players only and he's certainly not a long way down the list there.


:thumbup:

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if we are talking about just welsh players that have played abroad and of world class ability in their era or time , then fair enough , but there as not been that many as there , other than john charles , ian rush , mark hughes , and gareth bale and thats about it.

charles for me would easily top that list. :thumbup:

More players will choose Wales now as little England are a crock of shite:hehe:

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Originally Posted by chris

in the era we play in now , bale is up there with the best in the world :thumbup:

if we are talking about all time greats from previous decades , he is a long way down the list. :thumbup:

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And in 20 years time people will be saying "Oh [Insert name here] is a good player, but he's no Gareth Bale"

That's how the "all time greats" discussions work, the modern greats are dismissed until around 20 years after they've retired

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Originally Posted by City123

And in 20 years time people will be saying "Oh [Insert name here] is a good player, but he's no Gareth Bale"

That's how the "all time greats" discussions work, the modern greats are dismissed until around 20 years after they've retired

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bale is no maradona , cruyff, charles, di stefano, puskas, beckanbauer , etc great players are great players no matter what era you played in, as explained bale is up there with the best in the world in this era , but lets be honest, their is not a lot of competition about . in my opinion messi is the only player people will be talking about twenty years from now as a true great.from this era. :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by chris

if we are talking about just welsh players that have played abroad and of world class ability in their era or time , then fair enough , but there as not been that many as there , other than john charles , ian rush , mark hughes , and gareth bale and thats about it.

charles for me would easily top that list. :thumbup:

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How do you know? Were you around to see him play?

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Originally Posted by BlueArmy 86

How do you know? Were you around to see him play?

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ask around pal, he was on another level to the other three that have been mentioned , the fact he went to juventus thirty years before any of the others followed him abroad tells its own story, you had to be very special indeed if a club like juventus wanted you at that time.:thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Pearcey3

Have you seen England's centre backs over the past few years? Wiliams would have won plenty of caps had he decided to play for England.

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He never had a 'decision' to make, he never got the option to play for his country.

But you're correct, if he hadn't selfishly jumped at the chance to take a Welshmans place in their national team, he could have possibly played for his own country, they haven't exactly been blessed with decent centre back!

Hopefully he regrets it for the rest if his life, I'm sure deep down he actually does, I know I would.

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Originally Posted by qccfc

It would have seemed a distant dream when he was playing at Stockport though.

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I missed this one!:-)

Hopefully Williams is just as deluded as this guy, and also thinks he could have "walked into the English team" (he probably does!) too.

Imagine how it must feel to know that you blew the chance to play football for your own country.

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Originally Posted by BlueArmy 86

How do you know? Were you around to see him play?

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I can't see me saying this very often, but I agree with Chris regarding John Charles.

My Dad plays against him when he was at Cardiff and he said he was in a different class to anyone else he played against, including John Toshack just before he moved to Liverpool.

For people such as Bobby Robson and Jimmy Greaves to rate John Charles as the best player they have ever seen, including Pele, that says everything.

I can't comment because I never had the chance to see john Charles play. I'm not saying Bale is better, but I just wonder how some people are so sure. I never knew jimmy greaves and bobby Robson said those things so that's interesting to know.

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Originally Posted by chris

ask around pal, he was on another level to the other three that have been mentioned , the fact he went to juventus thirty years before any of the others followed him abroad tells its own story, you had to be very special indeed if a club like juventus wanted you at that time.:thumbup:

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Why do people always pick out the big names, as if they were the only ones who had successful careers abroad. !

Here is one great player (even though he is Ingurlish:hehe:), who is often forgotten:--

Cardiff City player as well, :thumbup:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerry_Hitchens

for once I find myself agreeing with Chris.

john Charles was probably the outstanding player of the proffessional era, and certainly head and shoulders (yes and in height) above his peers.
When a panel of then famous managers were asked to name their best 11 players for a world team, an Italian put John Charles in the same team twice, once at Centre forward and once at Centre Half. When he was told he couldn't do that he said words to the effect of "You asked me to pick the best player in each position, and Charles is the best in the world in both these positions."

No one could argue against that and his selection was allowed to stand.

I cannot recall that ever being said of any other player before or since. (and in case anyone asks - - Yes, I did see him play)

I never saw John Charles play. My father did and I respect his opinion immensely. he said the same. Pick him c/f to go 1-0 up, then move him to c/h to secure the win. Bobby Robson wrote the foreword in Charles autobiography and it is a glowing recommendation. He must have been one hell of a player. By many accounts Wales might have won the 58 tournament is teams hadnt kicked the smoke out of him

Pele was undoubtedly the best ever. Longevity, world cups won, career goals/games ratio who else comes close?

Charles, Best, Messi all greats but their records at international level were average.

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Originally Posted by JKB

Pele was undoubtedly the best ever. Longevity, world cups won, career goals/games ratio who else comes close?

Charles, Best, Messi all greats but their records at international level were average.

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...overhyped.html

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Originally Posted by JKB

Pele was undoubtedly the best ever. Longevity, world cups won, career goals/games ratio who else comes close?

Charles, Best, Messi all greats but their records at international level were average.

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...overhyped.html

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Originally Posted by City123

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...overhyped.html

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Interesting article. Having watched every world cup since 1966 my own view is that I have still not seen anyone to rival Pele as an individual player or the 1970 Brazil team. Defensively they were average but nothing matches their attack.

Each decade produces a truly great player but no one else has appeared in 4 world cups and won 3. Maradona, Messi and Cruyff do not come close.

Garrincha was supremely talented but like Best lacked discipline and wasted his great talent.

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Originally Posted by JKB

Interesting article. Having watched every world cup since 1966 my own view is that I have still not seen anyone to rival Pele as an individual player or the 1970 Brazil team. Defensively they were average but nothing matches their attack.

Each decade produces a truly great player but no one else has appeared in 4 world cups and won 3. Maradona, Messi and Cruyff do not come close.

Garrincha was supremely talented but like Best lacked discipline and wasted his great talent.

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Best attacking team ever:thumbup:

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Originally Posted by JKB

Interesting article. Having watched every world cup since 1966 my own view is that I have still not seen anyone to rival Pele as an individual player or the 1970 Brazil team. Defensively they were average but nothing matches their attack.

Each decade produces a truly great player but no one else has appeared in 4 world cups and won 3. Maradona, Messi and Cruyff do not come close.

Garrincha was supremely talented but like Best lacked discipline and wasted his great talent.

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1970 Brazill TEAM was, indeed, the best ever.
But Id put Cruyff above Pele any day as an individual player.

Great thread this. Part of the problem I have with what Chris says is that he is comparing Charles with Bale when the latter is only just halfway through his career. Bale will become our all time leading scorer. He was pivotal in the greatest tournament in our history. He has already been part of two Champions League triumphs. He may well go on to become a Madrid great.

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Originally Posted by bobh

1970 Brazill TEAM was, indeed, the best ever.
But Id put Cruyff above Pele any day as an individual player.

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All opinions I know. However Cruyff did not have Pele's longevity nor anything near his scoring record never mind 3 world cup wins spanning 12 years. One of the best European players undoubtedly.

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Originally Posted by Pearcey3

Great thread this. Part of the problem I have with what Chris says is that he is comparing Charles with Bale when the latter is only just halfway through his career. Bale will become our all time leading scorer. He was pivotal in the greatest tournament in our history. He has already been part of two Champions League triumphs. He may well go on to become a Madrid great.

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It is a good thread, and I have some sympathy with the view that Charles is, and will be, the best player ever for Wales in the context of his ability vs the players of his age. I can remember seeing him introduced at the Millenium Stadium during the Germany friendly match in 2002 and told my then 9 year old son that he had just seen one of the greatest players of all time.

I think Bale is already a Wales great, but he will have to go some to beat the reputation from his contempories that Charles acquired over his career - and that I think is the only way to compare them.

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Originally Posted by Pearcey3

Great thread this. Part of the problem I have with what Chris says is that he is comparing Charles with Bale when the latter is only just halfway through his career. Bale will become
our all time leading scorer. He was pivotal in the greatest tournament in our history. He has already been part of two Champions League triumphs. He may well go on to become a Madrid great.

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Agreed, Bale has already achieved more playing in better teams. Had Charles played for Real Madrid and the mighty Bluebirds whilst at his peak Chris's argument might have been valid.

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Originally Posted by JKB

All opinions I know. However Cruyff did not have Pele's longevity nor anything near his scoring record never mind 3 world cup wins spanning 12 years. One of the best European players undoubtedly.

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You really can't compare Pele's scoring record to anyone else's, 500 of the 1,000+ goals came in friendlies and he was playing in the Brazilian state championships where he was essentially playing against farmers