Happy Brexit Day

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Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.

Britain will once again be able to control its own destiny. That was at the crux of the referendum. Didn't you notice?

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Broadly speaking, we always did. The quid pro quo for the benefits we received were the adoption of EU regulations.

We used to rule half the world. Things change.

Whilst I accept that we will no longer have to worry about the shape of our bananas or the suction power of our vacuum cleaners again, any future trade deal will inevitably come with strings attached that won't be all that dissimilar to those already imposed on us by Europe.

I'm still looking for some tangible benefits of leaving the EU, but at the moment all I'm getting is the ideology of "controlling our own destiny". Is that all there is? Is that why we've rolled the dice with the stake being the futures of our children and the poorest in society?

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

Such a detachment would leave England wealthier.

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Let's get on with it then!

But in all seriousness, the best thing that'll come from brexit is the increasing debate about welsh independence.

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Originally Posted by ninianclark

Wales got EU grants as we were deemed to be impoverished etc. We dont get that money every year. There are now worse areas that will get that money.

A classic example is Ebbw Vale - they voted leave , yet said Nick Clegg they have had all that EU money. That money built a new road (the UK can build roads to), it built a college (we can build colleges as well) - and it even built a metal dragon on the high street (waste of money - but there you go).

The point being , Ebbw Vale needs jobs - which neither the EU or the UK Govt can provide.

Re the vote - if it was replayed - I dont know either. Last time I neither wanted to remain or leave. Wanted to leave as the direction the EU is going in - is not what I want - further and deeper integration, no control on borders, cheap labour killing wages here etc etc etc.

At the same time the hassle of leaving is going to be a pain in the @rse. But it does definitely provide opportunities. The WTO tarif is akin to a 5% drop in sterling - which we seem to have had already (said radio4 today - not me).

I also quite like the fact that we can set our own vat, corp tax and trade with whoever we want. As it stands if you are in the EU then 100% of UK companies need to comply with EU regs - whether you export to EU or not. COme out and only companies that export need to comply. Same as any company - a company that exports to Australia - needs to comply with their regs etc.

Im still 50/50 with the whole thing, it is however too late to change now - and even if we did decide to reverse - the EU would make life very difficult.

What should have happened is that we go back to semi restricted movement. You only go if you have a job or want to retire there (with private medical insurance). I'd like te UK to be able to advertise for anyone in the world to work here - as long as their prospective employer went guarantor for them.

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If I was poor and living in Ebbw Vale, and Cameron, Clegg at al. came over and said that I should vote remain 'cos economics init' I'd flick the Vs too. The logic in the leave vote in deprived areas was clear - We aren't happy, we want change. Whether any actual change will happen, I'm sceptical, but the logic is clear.

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Originally Posted by tommy31

Let's get on with it then!

But in all seriousness, the best thing that'll come from brexit is the increasing debate about welsh independence.

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When has Wales actually voted for independence though? And didn't Wales vote for Brexit?

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

When has Wales actually voted for independence though? And didn't Wales vote for Brexit?

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We havent yet. And yes. struggling to see the link

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Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.

The positives? Britain managed its affairs perfectly well for many centuries without outsiders creating thousands of rules to abide by, and it can again. Immigration levels may not decline, but we can then point the finger at British politicians who can be held to account via the ballot box. The pound's currently low by design. A 0.25% base rate whilst CPI, the lowest inflation gauge, is at 2.3% equals outright manipulation. It's also called currency wars or the race to the bottom because all the major currencies are heading to their intrinsic value which is precisely nothing... the pound and US Dollar, for example, have lost 96% of their purchasing power in the past 100 years.

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So, the referendum gave us the chance to maybe eventually identify who is to "blame" for the record immigration figures - always said it was a referendum on immigration, as opposed to EU membership, for an awful lot of people.

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Originally Posted by tommy31

If I was poor and living in Ebbw Vale, and Cameron, Clegg at al. came over and said that I should vote remain 'cos economics init' I'd flick the Vs too. The logic in the leave vote in deprived areas was clear - We aren't happy, we want change. Whether any actual change will happen, I'm sceptical, but the logic is clear.

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That sounds a lot more like emotion than logic.

Which is probably the basis on which 90% of us voted - on both sides of the argument.

In my view Leave were better than Remain on pitching their 'message' in emotional terms.

Remain (through Osbourne) tried to lead on confused pseudo facts. Leave led with appeals to 'us' not ' them'.

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Originally Posted by PerryJason

All these complete uneducated plebs who voted for brexit in the valleys will be so sorry that they didn't look at all of the facts. Fekin labour voting idiots.

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Bit harsh lol but l guess l fit into some of those categories,uneducated and a fekin labour voter living in the valleys but l did vote to remain ,main reason for me was the perceived impact it would have on future generations and how it might affect my children and grand children,and the erosion of workers rights were all important to me ,now l did have to balance this out against the promised huge amounts that would be made available to the NHS that leaving would bring and with me and the wife getting older this of course would be beneficial.That aside my questions to whoever ,by voting for brexit do you think consumer goods i.e. Food ,electrical goods ,and general high st items will rise to levels that they were when l first got married over 40 years ago when buying the fridge freezer tv and the like were major purchases and in general do you believe standards of living will drop?

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Originally Posted by ninianclark

Sterling has dropped 15% against the dollar - I think, so anything we import is going to cost more - at the moment. A lot of forecasts I have seen seem to believe that it will go back to pre brexit levels within 12 months - that is just someone else's prediction though.

Post Brexit in theory the UK can import from any non EU country and not have to apply the EU tariff. For example there was a program on bbc4 re shipping and how the container system is now a global std. To transport on a ship a flat screen TV from China to the UK cost £1. Given the economies of scale with large manufacturing in China and cheap labour - there is no way any UK / EU company can compete with that.

I am self employed - my standard of living changes every single year, good years it's great , bad years it's terrible. You should always cut your cloth accordingly as the saying goes.

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Agree with you,and have lived by those wise words all my life,but l do fear for the younger generations who seem to want everything yesterday,and l despair of some of the baby boomer generation who amongst them are some of the most selfish people l have met

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Originally Posted by tommy31

Let's get on with it then!

But in all seriousness, the best thing that'll come from brexit is the increasing debate about welsh independence.

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:thumbup:it's not if, it's when

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Originally Posted by severncity

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I get the idea, but it's not the EU that controls the education of Wales, nor the majority of the funding of Wales. Those are both for the Welsh Labour government, and the UK tory government. Both doing an equally bad job imo.

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Originally Posted by tommy31

I get the idea, but it's not the EU that controls the education of Wales, nor the majority of the funding of Wales. Those are both for the Welsh Labour government, and the UK tory government. Both doing an equally bad job imo.

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The LibDems have the education portfolio. Wales is being failed by all governments, including Brussels. Our convergence funding applications are held up as the model of good practice by the Commissioner at EU HQ. We have spunked most of the money - and it is only, annually, less than 1% of Wales' GDP - on third sector projects to help people write CVs and the like. We should have used it for transport infrastructure as that is what is clearly third-rate in Wales.

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Originally Posted by severncity

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That programme was so bad. Not even filmed on busy nights in cardiff as well. It made the city look like a rubbish night out.

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Originally Posted by severncity

The LibDems have the education portfolio. Wales is being failed by all governments, including Brussels. Our convergence funding applications are held up as the model of good practice by the Commissioner at EU HQ. We have spunked most of the money - and it is only, annually, less than 1% of Wales' GDP - on third sector projects to help people write CVs and the like. We should have used it for transport infrastructure as that is what is clearly third-rate in Wales.

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What the funds are spent on isnt down to the EU. Again, that's our government in Cardiff and Local Authorities.