Surely additional presence on the streets would help prevent all crime, not just terrorism? I.e. if you see a policeman a few streets away you're going to think twice about mugging someoneQuote:
Originally Posted by ninianclark
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Surely additional presence on the streets would help prevent all crime, not just terrorism? I.e. if you see a policeman a few streets away you're going to think twice about mugging someoneQuote:
Originally Posted by ninianclark
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-poli...to-kill-policyQuote:
Originally Posted by Joe Gillis
Deuteronomy 17Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysAway2
If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Gillis
http://www.itv.com/news/2017-03-26/c...inster-attack/Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick
Jeremy Corbyn on Peston On Sunday - 26 March 2017:
He supported the policy of shoot-to-kill "in a wholly defensive situation" but cautioned: "You've got to be careful you don't end up with what we had in Ireland in the 1980s."
We need tougher laws, far more cash for mi5 instead of trident. Monitor these wankers more, deport them straight away. Even now one of these latest ones had been reported I hear, several times by people who knew him. He could have been thrown out. Rotting away in our jails is way too good for these scumbags. The many good Moslems in this country need to help the mi5 in finding them first, they often seem to know that they have been turned. We are way to soft and too politically correct here, enough is enough hey.....
Why not have both? They aren't mutually exclusiveQuote:
Originally Posted by ninianclark
Sounds like a plan.Quote:
Originally Posted by goats
Agrees to suspend campaigning then makes a speech announcing new policy and playing on the concerns of the "lock them up crowd".
As soon as I see this in the top corner, "TROP is a non-partisan, fact-based site which examines the ideological threat that Islam poses to human dignity and freedom", I realise that this is not a non-partisan site, and one looking to prove something from an angle that it seeks.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysAway2
Where's the space going to come from to detain them all?Quote:
Originally Posted by ninianclark
Surprised a few on here aren't calling for a few nukes to get sent out
Corbyn will stop selling arms to ISIS supporting nations for oneQuote:
Originally Posted by Joe Gillis
Don't give them ideas!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiffa
More police working on surveillance.Quote:
Originally Posted by ninianclark
The police have foiled many plots but the cuts have really harmed their ability to do so
I don't have an immediate solution. When you referred to detaining, I presumed you were talking about prison detention, where of course, there isn't enough room.Quote:
Originally Posted by ninianclark
You also can't deport jihadi UK citizens as it's their right to live here.
The two things are entirely different. You're talking about detaining 3000 people somewhere and keeping them under observation. We don't do that with immigrants. I'll ask again where are you going to detain them? Not prisons are there isn't the room. Suppose you detain them under the mental health act - where are they going to be detained? Mental health support is in crisis, where's the staffing going to come from?Quote:
Originally Posted by ninianclark
It's all well and good saying we need to detain them, but actually being able to do so is not easy once you think things through properly.
Arsenal bastardQuote:
Originally Posted by ninianclark
That's a bit unfair. He might have been a bit wild in midfield on occasion - I did witness him making some very late tackles, but in general he always managed to complete a game without getting sent off. 'Mentally ill and a threat' is a bit strong, even if he was an Arsenal player. From what I saw of him he was certainly more deemed 'mentally safe to be let back into society' than say Dennis Wise, Robbie Savage or even Vinnie Jones.Quote:
Originally Posted by ninianclark
3000 people detained who, a percentage at least, have not yet fully committed to terror and the dangerous ideology which sparks that idea. I wonder if that will help them or push them into solidifying their still potentially extremist views?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
We accept all on a basic level, we challenge the ideas which lead to extremism and we don't arm those (ideas or weapons) that wish to hurt us.
Corbyn would be more likely to invite the terrorists for tea in the House of Commons than actually deal with the problem as history suggests that man and one or two of his sidekicks have a history of supporting terrorist organisations and voting against any government legislation to tighten laws dealing with terrorism. Corbyn once boasted that in 30 years of voting as an MP he hasn't once voted in favour of any legislation to tighten laws governing government security to deal with those who want to attack us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Gillis
On the other hand Theresa May's record is not entirely unblemished but my judgement is that she is more likely to grapple with the problem than the man who regards terrorists as his friend.
So why do so many senior Police Officers complain about overstretch and cuts in force levels ?Quote:
Originally Posted by ninianclark
Technology is fine but cameras don't have to go and confront maniacs. We all know the bobby on the beat you describe hasn't
existed since Dixon of Dock Green.
I see you deflect the criticism of May I made but most people want more coppers as a visible deterrent and to reassure them.
The Tories used to say that but now all they care about is austerity and keeping the rich happy. Cyunts.
If that attack happened in Cardiff or Swansea, or Newport, or Pontypridd - do you think there'd be a response in 8 minutes with armed police?Quote:
Originally Posted by ninianclark
She was the Home Secretary when Police numbers were slashed. There have been 3 attacks and 30 deaths in the last 2 months.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vindec
Why should other religions suffer because of the intolerance of Muslims.Quote:
Originally Posted by chris lee
People have taken the p!ssh out if Christianity for decades - Jerry Springer the musical, monty pythons meaning of life and so much more. Sure Christians would have been p!ssed off, they may have protested, but try doing the same with Islam and you would have a holy war. Every cartoonist who has dared to mock Islam or the prophet Mo has a fatwah issued upon them. Many have been killed.
I don't recall seeing Buddhists going crazy, when comedians call Buddha a fat b'stard.
The problem worldwide is with Islam.
From June 15 to Sept 16. There were at least 2500 killed worldwide in over 150 separate terrorist attacks in 29 different countries worldwide.
Is that the fault of western foreign policy or just the excuse that the likes of the juvenile self centric clown that is Corbyn will have you believe.
He is giving these hate filled creatures an excuse, when what they do worldwide is inexcusable.
To say their actions has nothing to do with Islam is a case of total denial. It has everything to do with Islam.
Islam is littered with atrocities from the day Mo realised that the Jews didn't agree with his new religion. The only time of relative Islamic peace was from the 1920's, when the great Turkish leader, Ataturk made Turkey a secular state. A few years later, the Muslim Brotherhood declared that Islam would rule the world within 100 years.
The dangerous events going on around the world, with the most dangerous man on the planet (and there a few of those at the moment, Erdogan now making Turkey a non secular state, along with tens of millions of Muslims moving, some would say quietly invading, Europe, North America, Australia, New Zealand and Japan - traditionally non Muslim countries. Why would so many who do not want to integrate choose to live in a non Muslim country, when there are so many Muslim countries around the world they could live in, that fits in with their beliefs, values, cultures and traditions.
I accept there are some amazing Muslims around the world. It is not those people that should concern us, but the millions who may be radicalised or militant or support those who are, those that laugh at the videos of young girls screaming on fear at the.Manchester concert or the footage of London last night, or the Bataclan or.....
Further there will be those may not necessarily enjoy those things, but will agree with the motives or that non Muslims are lower than pigs, especially if they worship false prophets such as pop stars.
Islam is one crazy mixed up religion with so many factions that they have killed each other from the inception of the religion and will do so until one group kills all others.
As I say, there are peaceful and wonderful Muslims everywhere, such as Sheikh Imam Tawhidi in Australia who states the truth about Islam (check him out on you tube), but their voices are too quiet compared to the maelstrom of hate from the millions around the world.
Not these guys , yes muggers ,would think twice , but for these nutters more police would become more targetso, and victim, and a new headline , nah this us about spending money differently , like monitoring the web, looking closely at asylum entries, whose flying in and out .Getting deeply involved with the Muslim community.Quote:
Originally Posted by City123
That won't fix anything, someone will always sell arms to you , the question you might pose whose arming them, this group didn't appear from nowhere, arrmed and able to control financially large parts of the middle east.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiffa
Proxy wars are afoot just chose a side.
Yep enough is enough ,let's fix it, not paper over it .
How about our right not to be blown up or stabbed to death?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
Of course you don't have a solution, you never do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
You're just like the clueless clown Corbyn. Everything is our fault due to western foreign policy, when Muslims are attacking each other and non Muslims around the whole world. How on earth is that the fault of western foreign policy.
There is only one common denominator. One. That is Islam.
The solutions are multi factored, but one has to be deportation of those and their families who come from a different country and the indefinite detainment of those, born in this country, who support in any way any hostility towards UK citizens.
You cannot play softball with these as their reasons will change like the wind, but their motives and intentions remain the same.
Does May and Tories not meet with terrorists or those acting in an inhuman way? David Davis was on Andrew Marr and was caught out when it was shown he had met with people we now consider evil regimes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vindec
In the same programme he said that we must learn the lessons from previous invasions, but what lessons have we already learnt? If you haven't learnt that a lack of plan afterwards creates dis-harmony and a breeding ground for hateful ideologies from Iraq or Afghanistan then you haven't paid attention.....Yet aren't we already signed up to Trump's next military action without putting it to Westminster under May?
May's seeking to go after the internet but it won't catch up with the terrorists while her cuts and demoralising of police forces has been said to have made it harder to capture intelligence on the ground.
Corbyn may not be the strongest on this matter but May and Tories really aren't either. If you believe Corbyn sees them as friends then you haven't decided to vote on a real matter but on a Tory line.
Your idea of softball seems to be a nuanced and considered response. The thing that is needed for such a multifaceted problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by JDerrida
I believe the attacks in London and Manchester in the last few months would have happened whichever party was in Government, but, surely, saying "enough is enough" on any subject carries the implication that not enough has been done in the past?
We are now in a position where people have come forward to say that they had reported the person responsible for the Manchester deaths and one of those responsible for Saturday's attack beforehand and it seems nothing was done about it. Put this against a backdrop where a former policemen is interviewed on Sky News specifically blaming the Governing party for failures in policing and a sizeable decrease in the number of police officers under the Prime Minister's watch during and after her time as Home Secretary and it would hardly be a surprise if people started to think not enough has been done in the past.
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by ninianclark
Public like Police on the streets and there are 20,000 less of them since the party of law and order came into power.
A Bobby on the beat can do little about a nail bomb going off in a crowded area or a van hurtling at pedestrians at 40mphQuote:
Originally Posted by BlueWales
Maybe more bobbies on the beat would lead to a situation where potential terrorists are identified more quickly than they are now?Quote:
Originally Posted by WJ99mobile
No they can't but I have to point out that the cuts the Tories made has had a staggering effect on the intelligence received at a local level.It has all but dried up completely.A sad fact that is not now disputed by many Tories.The speech the PM made at the 2010 police conference as well as the replies she ignored are now biting her on the bum big time.Quote:
Originally Posted by WJ99mobile
It's easy to say that things would have been better with more Police but, as has already been mentioned, no number of Police would be able to stop a few terrorists in a van randomly mowing people down on our streets. Police in the community might help but it seems to me that the high number of rapid arrests after an incident suggests the Police already know who these people are and cannot do anything about them due to lack of evidence that would stand up in Court.
Any Party in opposition can easily claim the reduction in Police numbers is the reason for increasing terrorism but a government has to stand on its record. It's fine for Corbyn and Co to say Police numbers should be increased but, as many people suspect, along with more money for NHS workers, abandonment of tuition fees, various privatisations etc are purely fictitious aspirations. All of these things have to be paid for and will inevitably lead to higher taxes, higher interest rates and probably more unemployment to name a few.
As I said earlier Corbyn has a poor record of dealing with terrorists and the thought of John McDonnel (who wants to disarm Police) and Diane Abbot (who wants DNA databases to be wiped clean) looking after the security of this country is beyond comprehension.
Of course the Tories record is not unblemished but I would rather have them dealing with security issues than the other three mentioned.
Other than the Saudi stuff, May is trying to stop an inquiry into the foreign funding of support of UK jihadi groups being published.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vindec
He denies it, though I probably don't believe him. It would never happen, thankfully.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vindec
Did she say she wants them wiped completely? Or just for innocent people? That is surely not unreasonable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vindec
In 2009 the Tories claimed that Labour were responsible for the world financial crisis which they patently weren't but they won an election on the back of it as most people bought into the idea.A brilliant stragedy by the Tories.On this issue now it seems the tables are turned politically speaking and this week she's neck deep in the brown stuff. I fully expect all the political parties to ram this home because even if people can't bring themselves to vote for Corbin theres no doubt that at the moment the government are on the ropes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vindec
There isn't a debate on which leader would be better for the country in regard to our image in the world.
Corbyn wins hands down as a pacifist and that'd be the main reason I would vote for him.
I don't think terrorism will be defeated by strong arm tactics. That is the reason why we are where we are.
Not only is it about intelligence gathering but the human connection between vulnerable youths and UK government/society. A lack of that connection could allow for a vulnerable person to be told that police/UK government/UK armed forces are anti-muslim and have this backed up with distortion of media reports, which can lead to anger and hate and again increase the odds of taking part in an attack.
It's very easy for opposition to say but maybe we can listen to the police/anti-terror groups who have also said cuts = being asked to do much more with much less.