Re: Fighting terrorism not supporting it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lardy
So we could make more cuts and still meet the 2% target.
The 2% is a commitment to NATO & should not override what we need to spend to keep our country safe. Personally I would like to see us investing more in certain areas - for example I am pleased that we have a new fleet of warships in production.
Re: Fighting terrorism not supporting it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alfonso Perez
That comes across as more than a little patronising although in fairness you do seem to be describing yourself there. Your inability to consider this logically & objectively is blindingly obvious to me.
A few basic questions:
Do you think that it is acceptable for a potential UK PM to describe terrorist organisations as his friends?
Do you think that it is acceptable for a potential UK PM to observe a minutes silence for dead IRA terrorists?
Do you think that it is acceptable that a potential Chancellor wants to honour dead IRA terrorists?
Do you think that it is acceptable for a potential Home Secretary to want to see the British State defeated in any conflict?
I am on my phone so not so easy to reply to all of that.
Honest answer, I don't really care. I can understand why people who were involved would care but I think elections should be about the future rather than the past. Britain has had too many enemies that have turned to friends and vice versa to judge. Britain have also had enemies and positions that virtually no one in the political classes challenged, Corbyn did and was proved right in the end.
Is our agenda on terrorism working? I was in London on Saturday night and it feels to me that our interventions abroad and our commitment to trying to beat an ideology with bombs isn't providing the results. I don't think a different approach is such a dangerous idea.
Theresa May's vision for Britain (and yours) sounds a lot like North Korea, support the government position or else and sacrifice spending on schools, policing and healthcare in order to maintain a huge scary military. We will end up thick, ill and fundamentally unsafe but at least we can keep bombing the Middle East.
Re: Fighting terrorism not supporting it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alfonso Perez
The 2% is a commitment to NATO & should not override what we need to spend to keep our country safe. Personally I would like to see us investing more in certain areas - for example I am pleased that we have a new fleet of warships in production.
Don't take a knife to a warship fight.
Re: Fighting terrorism not supporting it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
Honest answer, I don't really care. I can understand why people who were involved would care but I think elections should be about the future rather than the past. Britain has had too many enemies that have turned to friends and vice versa to judge. Britain have also had enemies and positions that virtually no one in the political classes challenged, Corbyn did and was proved right in the end.
Always amuses me that people dig out old Corbyn quotes when it was only last year that May was campaigning to stay in the EU.
Re: Fighting terrorism not supporting it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lardy
Always amuses me that people dig out old Corbyn quotes when it was only last year that May was campaigning to stay in the EU.
Wonder if Theresa May was campaigning for Nelson Mandele to be released thirty years ago when elements within the Conservative party were saying he was a terrorist and I wonder what her attitude was to the situation described here?
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...-10507850.html
If questions have to be asked about what politicians from the main opposition party were doing and saying decades ago, I don't get why the same isn't true of politicians within the Governing party.
Re: Fighting terrorism not supporting it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
I am on my phone so not so easy to reply to all of that.
Honest answer, I don't really care. I can understand why people who were involved would care but I think elections should be about the future rather than the past. Britain has had too many enemies that have turned to friends and vice versa to judge. Britain have also had enemies and positions that virtually no one in the political classes challenged, Corbyn did and was proved right in the end.
Is our agenda on terrorism working? I was in London on Saturday night and it feels to me that our interventions abroad and our commitment to trying to beat an ideology with bombs isn't providing the results. I don't think a different approach is such a dangerous idea.
Theresa May's vision for Britain (and yours) sounds a lot like North Korea, support the government position or else and sacrifice spending on schools, policing and healthcare in order to maintain a huge scary military. We will end up thick, ill and fundamentally unsafe but at least we can keep bombing the Middle East.
So you don't care as it had no impact on you - that's a pretty selfish viewpoint from someone who try's to portray himself as a caring socialist. I certainly have issues with people who gave support to a terrorist group who murdered many innocent civilians, even if you don't.
I think that someone's core values are a very important issue when voting for a new prime minister. If Corbyn could simply specifically condemn the IRA that would be a start but for some reason he is unwilling to do so despite numerous opportunities. The truth is that he has not changed his opinions & his warped view of the world remains well & truly intact.
I agree that bombing is not the answer. One thing we do need are tougher anti-terror laws & if that impinges on my human rights then I really don't care as it is unlikely to have much impact on me as I don't have anything to hide. I wish we could have a cross party approach to this to reach an acceptable compromise but Corbyn's record of continually voting against anti-terror legislation suggests that this will be impossible to achieve if he is elected. Despite what has been happening of late I have far more confidence in Theresa May & Amber Rudd to keep us safe as opposed to the dream team of Jeremy Corbyn & Diane Abbott.
You know nothing about my vision for the UK so how can you compare it to North Korea - fair play that is an incredibly stupid & pathetic thing to say. I far from support the Government's position on lot's of things but sadly I think that Theresa May is the best of a very bad bunch & I have never been more disappointed & underwhelmed by any other election. Personally I wish that there was an alternative to May but I am firmly of the opinion that those who think that Corbyn is the answer (like you) are deluded - interestingly 172 out of 229 Labour MPs also think that Corbyn is incapable of leading this country. What do you know that 75% of Labour MP's don't?
My wish is that the conservatives win with a reduced majority, Corbyn resigns (& takes his abhorrent mates with him) & Labour elect a more balanced/capable leader, thus becoming an effective opposition as opposed to a party of protest. Also, if Theresa May doesn't pull her socks up then I hope that she is ousted during the next parliament & a more capable leader is brought in as Prime Minister. My vision is about having a very strong economy & investing more & more in education, health, defence, police, social care, work & pensions, our environment, the poorer parts of the UK etc.etc. so on some things we appear to have an element of agreement.
Re: Fighting terrorism not supporting it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Wonder if Theresa May was campaigning for Nelson Mandele to be released thirty years ago when elements within the Conservative party were saying he was a terrorist and I wonder what her attitude was to the situation described here?
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...-10507850.html
If questions have to be asked about what politicians from the main opposition party were doing and saying decades ago, I don't get why the same isn't true of politicians within the Governing party.
How many of those are currently running for PM, Chancellor or Home Secretary Bob? Do you know anything which suggests that Theresa May supported any terrorist organisations? What about Tim Farron, Nicola Sturgeon or Leanne Wood?
Re: Fighting terrorism not supporting it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
Really? Last I heard Corbyn roundly condemned all terrorism.
Took a bloody long time to do it though didn't he.
Re: Fighting terrorism not supporting it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lardy
Always amuses me that people dig out old Corbyn quotes when it was only last year that May was campaigning to stay in the EU.
It always amuses me how many apologists are around when it suits their political persuasion.
Talking of the EU do you honestly believe that Jeremy Corbyn really wanted to remain noting his past comments & half-hearted efforts during the campaign?
Re: Fighting terrorism not supporting it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alfonso Perez
So you don't care as it had no impact on you - that's a pretty selfish viewpoint from someone who try's to portray himself as a caring socialist. I certainly have issues with people who gave support to a terrorist group who murdered many innocent civilians, even if you don't.
I think that someone's core values are a very important issue when voting for a new prime minister. If Corbyn could simply specifically condemn the IRA that would be a start but for some reason he is unwilling to do so despite numerous opportunities. The truth is that he has not changed his opinions & his warped view of the world remains well & truly intact.
I agree that bombing is not the answer. One thing we do need are tougher anti-terror laws & if that impinges on my human rights then I really don't care as it is unlikely to have much impact on me as I don't have anything to hide. I wish we could have a cross party approach to this to reach an acceptable compromise but Corbyn's record of continually voting against anti-terror legislation suggests that this will be impossible to achieve if he is elected. Despite what has been happening of late I have far more confidence in Theresa May & Amber Rudd to keep us safe as opposed to the dream team of Jeremy Corbyn & Diane Abbott.
You know nothing about my vision for the UK so how can you compare it to North Korea - fair play that is an incredibly stupid & pathetic thing to say. I far from support the Government's position on lot's of things but sadly I think that Theresa May is the best of a very bad bunch & I have never been more disappointed & underwhelmed by any other election. Personally I wish that there was an alternative to May but I am firmly of the opinion that those who think that Corbyn is the answer (like you) are deluded - interestingly 172 out of 229 Labour MPs also think that Corbyn is incapable of leading this country. What do you know that 75% of Labour MP's don't?
My wish is that the conservatives win with a reduced majority, Corbyn resigns (& takes his abhorrent mates with him) & Labour elect a more balanced/capable leader, thus becoming an effective opposition as opposed to a party of protest. Also, if Theresa May doesn't pull her socks up then I hope that she is ousted during the next parliament & a more capable leader is brought in as Prime Minister. My vision is about having a very strong economy & investing more & more in education, health, defence, police, social care, work & pensions, our environment, the poorer parts of the UK etc.etc. so on some things we appear to have an element of agreement.
He has condemned the violence of the IRA. Are you saying this isn't enough and he must condemn their underlying objectives also?
What does keep us safe mean? More warships?
This government has clearly risked it's citizens lives in order to pursue austerity. This isn't I told you so, the police specifically warned them, they did it anyway.
The smear of Corbyn hasn't worked. Originally when he was elected I had a bit of hope but then firmly became an 'anyone but corbyn' mainly because of the actions of the organisation which backs him. This election campaign has pushed me towards him. Constant irrelevant smear, mistakes by his team being headlines and mistakes by key cabinet members ignored, attack after attack and he stays polite.
Re: Fighting terrorism not supporting it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alfonso Perez
So you don't care as it had no impact on you - that's a pretty selfish viewpoint from someone who try's to portray himself as a caring socialist. I certainly have issues with people who gave support to a terrorist group who murdered many innocent civilians, even if you don't.
.....
One thing we do need are tougher anti-terror laws & if that impinges on my human rights then I really don't care as it is unlikely to have much impact on me as I don't have anything to hide.
Can only assume this was meant as a joke. :hehe:
It's very sad to see so many people saying they'd give up human rights. They always think this kind of stuff happens to other people and will never affect them. As an example, there would have been no recent Hillsboro inquest if we didn't have human rights bills. It's taken centuries to get this point; maybe we should all try to understand what impact it might have on us rather than assuming the best case.
Re: Fighting terrorism not supporting it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alfonso Perez
It always amuses me how many apologists are around when it suits their political persuasion.
Talking of the EU do you honestly believe that Jeremy Corbyn really wanted to remain noting his past comments & half-hearted efforts during the campaign?
I couldn't say I honestly believed that, no. He didn't do anywhere near enough during the campaign, nor during his time in opposition (up until the last month or so).
Re: Fighting terrorism not supporting it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lardy
Can only assume this was meant as a joke. :hehe:
It's very sad to see so many people saying they'd give up human rights. They always think this kind of stuff happens to other people and will never affect them. As an example, there would have been no recent Hillsboro inquest if we didn't have human rights bills. It's taken centuries to get this point; maybe we should all try to understand what impact it might have on us rather than assuming the best case.
If you are looking for a joke Lardy maybe take a look at some of the tripe you post :hehe:
I have nothing to hide so why should a tightening up of anti terror laws have a direct & noticeable impact on me & other law abiding citizens? If by some chance it did have some impact on me but it resulted in a cessation of the mass murders we are currently seeing, then it will be a small price to pay in my mind - do you agree?
Comparing anti terror legislation to the Hillsborough tragedy is as tenuous as it gets. On the subject of the Hillsborough inquest Theresa May deserves some credit, don't you think? To add some balance I was also very impressed by Andy Burnham.
Re: Fighting terrorism not supporting it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alfonso Perez
Despite what has been happening of late I have far more confidence in Theresa May & Amber Rudd to keep us safe as opposed to the dream team of Jeremy Corbyn & Diane Abbott.
29th March 2017, Amber Rudd said it was looking likely the UK would leave Europol and stop sharing intelligence with the rest of the EU, so I wish I had your confidence.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7656971.html
Dianne Abbott comes across as dim, but I think her days as a political 'force' are numbered. I doubt she'll be in an Cabinet or Shadow Cabinet again after all that's happened with her in the past few weeks.
Re: Fighting terrorism not supporting it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alfonso Perez
If you are looking for a joke Lardy maybe take a look at some of the tripe you post :hehe:
I have nothing to hide so why should a tightening up of anti terror laws have a direct & noticeable impact on me & other law abiding citizens? If by some chance it did have some impact on me but it resulted in a cessation of the mass murders we are currently seeing, then it will be a small price to pay in my mind - do you agree?
Comparing anti terror legislation to the Hillsborough tragedy is as tenuous as it gets. On the subject of the Hillsborough inquest Theresa May deserves some credit, don't you think? To add some balance I was also very impressed by Andy Burnham.
Well, you'd be surprised. Link below to explain that particular case but the wider view is that it reigns in authority figures from doing what they want, whether that's the police beating confessions out of people or something massive like Hillsborough.
Yes, Burnham and May deserve credit to varying extents.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...-a7004756.html
The jury is definitely out on whether insufficient legislation was to blame for the recent attacks or insufficient police resources. As Armando Ianucci commented, one of them pretty much had terrorist printed on his passport. The reason no one acted was not because their hands were tied legally.
Re: Fighting terrorism not supporting it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
He has condemned the violence of the IRA. Are you saying this isn't enough and he must condemn their underlying objectives also?
What does keep us safe mean? More warships?
This government has clearly risked it's citizens lives in order to pursue austerity. This isn't I told you so, the police specifically warned them, they did it anyway.
The smear of Corbyn hasn't worked. Originally when he was elected I had a bit of hope but then firmly became an 'anyone but corbyn' mainly because of the actions of the organisation which backs him. This election campaign has pushed me towards him. Constant irrelevant smear, mistakes by his team being headlines and mistakes by key cabinet members ignored, attack after attack and he stays polite.
I think that we need to agree to disagree as we are polar opposites here & any more debate will only serve to waste time & effort. You clearly see something in Corbyn that I & indeed 75% of Labour MPs cannot see.
Re: Fighting terrorism not supporting it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alfonso Perez
I think that we need to agree to disagree as we are polar opposites here & any more debate will only serve to waste time & effort. You clearly see something in Corbyn that I & indeed 75% of Labour MPs cannot see.
So I answer your questions but you won't answer mine. Explains a lot, conservatives are the perfect party for you it seems.
