Attendances

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Originally Posted by Mambo

I know its a football forum and people talk about what they want. But I find it interesting that just as we are getting a head of steam so to speak, no losses, hard any goals conceded, 2nd in table , a gap between us and 3rd place. Just as all that is starting to happen - there are still people who want to draw on the negatives - wherever they can find them.

We could be top and the crowds not great, would they still post then ?, it gives you an insight into peoples negative outlook on cardiff city, which is probably mirrored by a rather sad , negative life outside.

It's like a kid who wants to spoil everyone eles's party, because someone once spoilt theirs when they were a kid.
Go if you want, dont go if you want, no one is holding a gun to your head eitherway.
Working class support / economic factors are a bigger reason than any foot stomping walkout supporters, rebels without a cause anymore IMO

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I didn't start this thread. I didn't even give an opinion on it. Just stated a couple of facts.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

As you know only too well, crowds have been relatively poor all season, particularly given the team's position in the league table. There have been loads and loads of threads about the subject. There seems to be at least one every time I log on, which admittedly is pretty rare these days. I've only ever 'popped up' on one or two such threads.

As regards being 'bothered' about City's crowds, I'm not bothered in the slightest. I've always been interested by attendances and have been posting about them on this board for many years - long before the Emperor arrived at the club - but I'm not 'bothered' about them at all. Interested, certainly. Bothered, certainly not.

It amuses me how precious some of you are, though. God forbid anyone should have an opinion if it doesn't tally with yours.....

:hehe:

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Do you think you may harp on about the rebrand/emperor a bit too much? Almost insisting you were right all along.

I think most fans would agree that low crowds have little to do with the rebrand/emperor.

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Originally Posted by Louth

Do you think you may harp on about the rebrand/emperor a bit too much? Almost insisting you were right all along.

I think most fans would agree that low crowds have little to do with the rebrand/emperor.

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As far as this message board is concerned, I don't think I 'harp on' about anything a bit too much. I'm a rare visitor these days.

Almost insisting I was right all along? About what exactly?

Like a dog with a bone.

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Originally Posted by Auntie Andy

Like a dog with a bone.

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:hehe:

I won't supply the obvious reply.....

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Originally Posted by Louth

Do you think you may harp on about the rebrand/emperor a bit too much? Almost insisting you were right all along.

I think most fans would agree that low crowds have little to do with the rebrand/emperor.

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We clearly lost a good number of die hard fans through the rebrand, and thus they've stopped going and have had an effect.

However, the crap PL season, OGS, Slade and Trollope are all factors in people staying away, as well as South Wales' football public possibly being the ficklest bunch anywhere in the country, and it has been that was for as long as I can remember. We had Jason Koumas putting in one of the best individual seasons I've ever seen and we had 8k for Ipswich at home because we were mid table.

I can only think of three seasons which match this one in terms of the chances of Premier league/Division One football through automatic promotion in the time I've been supporting the club - 1970/71, 2010/11 and 2012/13. The average crowds for those seasons were 21,535, 23,194 and 22,999 respectively according to this;-

http://european-football-statistics....nclub/carc.htm

The average attendance for this season so far is 18,886, a miserable fourteenth best in the Championship. I suppose if we were to go up automatically, that figure would get pretty close to the attendance for 70/71 at least, but it's hard to see us matching the two seasons from this decade.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

As far as this message board is concerned, I don't think I 'harp on' about anything a bit too much. I'm a rare visitor these days.

Almost insisting I was right all along? About what exactly?

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Try logging on and adding to the match day thread or give an opinion on performances.

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Originally Posted by Dr Lecter

Jirga.

Every time we win.

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:hehe:

To be fair, I do whine a lot about the club - but the club mean(t) a lot to me and it will again. To be fair Cardiff are also winning a lot these days too - my whining is consistent and is not related to Cardiffs success.

Going back to some of the other points - there were some large crowds last night. 25000 for a mid table clash at Norwich. 18k at hapless Brum.

It would be crazy for anyone to say that the loss of crowds is down purely to the rebrand and/or Tan. I've never claimed that, despite accusations that I have. Talking of accusations, You also accused me on a forum I don't post on (but you're not obsessed, really you're not) of going in the PL season - for the record I didn't attend a single PL game. I attended some marches though.

It is equally crazy for people to claim that the rebrand has had a negligible effect.

The data sets are there. Compare 2011/12 with this season. Crowds went up in the first red season (I was there for many games) but a few of the old gang around me were losing interest. A few of us stopped after Brighton - I watched 2 more games the last being Charlton. People here boasted that the likes of TLG and Ken Smith (who both handed in their season tickets in Summer 2012 something I wish I had done) would be easily replaced. And, they were (I think Ken Smith actually replaced hisself for the PL fun). Until relegation from the EPL then both the replaceds and the replacers were nowhere to be seen.

Alfie Sherwood, Thames Valley Blue, Jordi Cule - just some posters alongside TLG who no longer go because of the rebrand. People still dispute that these people exist.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I can only think of three seasons which match this one in terms of the chances of Premier league/Division One football through automatic promotion in the time I've been supporting the club - 1970/71, 2010/11 and 2012/13. The average crowds for those seasons were 21,535, 23,194 and 22,999 respectively according to this;-

http://european-football-statistics....nclub/carc.htm

The average attendance for this season so far is 18,886, a miserable fourteenth best in the Championship. I suppose if we were to go up automatically, that figure would get pretty close to the attendance for 70/71 at least, but it's hard to see us matching the two seasons from this decade.

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What are the averages since the move to CCS?

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Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa

We clearly lost a good number of die hard fans through the rebrand, and thus they've stopped going and have had an effect.

However, the crap PL season, OGS, Slade and Trollope are all factors in people staying away, as well as South Wales' football public possibly being the ficklest bunch anywhere in the country, and it has been that was for as long as I can remember. We had Jason Koumas putting in one of the best individual seasons I've ever seen and we had 8k for Ipswich at home because we were mid table.

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Not sure fickleness can be used as an excuse when you have spent most of the season on or around second place.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I can only think of three seasons which match this one in terms of the chances of Premier league/Division One football through automatic promotion in the time I've been supporting the club - 1970/71, 2010/11 and 2012/13. The average crowds for those seasons were 21,535, 23,194 and 22,999 respectively.

The average attendance for this season so far is 18,886, a miserable fourteenth best in the Championship. I suppose if we were to go up automatically, that figure would get pretty close to the attendance for 70/71 at least, but it's hard to see us matching the two seasons from this decade.

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This season's average is skewed somewhat by the alleged 27,000+ attendance for the early-season game against Leeds. I'm pretty sure there wouldn't have been any similarly large attendances brought about by cheap/free tickets in the other three seasons you mentioned.

The comparison with other clubs in those seasons is interesting. In 1970/71, City had the 4th highest average in the division. In 2010/11 it was the 6th highest. In 2012/13 it was the 5th highest. As you say, this season Cardiff are currently 14th in the Championship attendance rankings. Whisper it quietly, but even Bristol City's average is almost 2,000 higher.

If you had to name the five main factors in this season's low attendances, what would they be?

Toshack being sold
Moving 200 yards across Sloper road
Liverpool are on the telly
My cat was ill
The rebrand

Please do, I’m sure it will be a non sexist joke.

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Originally Posted by Auntie Andy

Please do, I’m sure it will be a non sexist joke.

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After your comments earlier I checked my posting history for this season, which is very brief. Turns out that this is the one and only thread from 2017/18 in which I've commented on City's attendances.

:biggrin:

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Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt

:hehe:

To be fair, I do whine a lot about the club - but the club mean(t) a lot to me and it will again. To be fair Cardiff are also winning a lot these days too - my whining is consistent and is not related to Cardiffs success.

Going back to some of the other points - there were some large crowds last night. 25000 for a mid table clash at Norwich. 18k at hapless Brum.

It would be crazy for anyone to say that the loss of crowds is down purely to the rebrand and/or Tan. I've never claimed that, despite accusations that I have. Talking of accusations, You also accused me on a forum I don't post on (but you're not obsessed, really you're not) of going in the PL season - for the record I didn't attend a single PL game. I attended some marches though.

It is equally crazy for people to claim that the rebrand has had a negligible effect.

The data sets are there. Compare 2011/12 with this season. Crowds went up in the first red season (I was there for many games) but a few of the old gang around me were losing interest. A few of us stopped after Brighton - I watched 2 more games the last being Charlton. People here boasted that the likes of TLG and Ken Smith (who both handed in their season tickets in Summer 2012 something I wish I had done) would be easily replaced. And, they were (I think Ken Smith actually replaced hisself for the PL fun). Until relegation from the EPL then both the replaceds and the replacers were nowhere to be seen.

Alfie Sherwood, Thames Valley Blue, Jordi Cule - just some posters alongside TLG who no longer go because of the rebrand. People still dispute that these people exist.

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How though? What if Tan stays for 10 or 20 more years. You could be pushing 60 by then and have wasted years of your life.

I gave my ticket back so I could make my own mind up without feeling like I was forced to going. It cost me £30 and got the rest of my money back. I went to my first game after about 6/7 games as one of the boys wasn't going. I decided I could cope, although I didn't go to the Brighton game which would probably have turned me off for life.

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Originally Posted by NYCBlue

I didn't start this thread. I didn't even give an opinion on it. Just stated a couple of facts.

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I started this thread and at the outset I said it wasn't about us (and I meant it). I was genuinely amazed at how low the crowds were at Burton and Reading last night. I'm all for the underdog, but surely Burton deserve a bigger support playing at the level they are. It must be a concern across the board.

It was also related to a recent story about Sky TV televising all midweek lower-league games. To me you can't beat watching sport live - there's no comparison. I have an almost irrational hatred of Sky TV and the generation of armchair fans its generated through its hype and blanket coverage of sport. I appreciate not everyone can make it to games and that's fine, but I will always argue that being at the game is so much better; what you see (Warnock going nuts at the fourth official), what you hear (the "Where's your Thatcher gone?" from the Ninian Stand towards the Forest fans in April 2013 is still my all-time favourite) and what you smell (the half-time Bovril). You get none of that at home.

Sat in the Family Stand, I'm quite near the away fans and always look over to see how many turn up, especially for midweek games. My son regularly asks me when they'd have started out and when they'll get home. I have admiration for fans like those from Barnsley last night. Same for when we played Ipswich, and of course for our fans who made the exact same reverse trips this season. They are the lifeblood of the game and it worries me when Sky are proposing more TV coverage, which could kill attendances and atmospheres even more.

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Originally Posted by Gnojek

Not ours but other games played last night. There were only 3,464 at Burton/Brentford and 8,631 at Reading/Bolton. Even taking into account their league positions and the probable small away support, they're both pitiful attendances. On the other hand, for Sunderland to get 26,081 in their current mess is amazing, even factoring in what was no doubt a good number of Villa fans.

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A lot of Reading STHs are now boycotting the games because it is now so bad. I cannot believe Stam is still in charge

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Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt

:hehe:

To be fair, I do whine a lot about the club - but the club mean(t) a lot to me and it will again. To be fair Cardiff are also winning a lot these days too - my whining is consistent and is not related to Cardiffs success.

Going back to some of the other points - there were some large crowds last night. 25000 for a mid table clash at Norwich. 18k at hapless Brum.

It would be crazy for anyone to say that the loss of crowds is down purely to the rebrand and/or Tan. I've never claimed that, despite accusations that I have. Talking of accusations, You also accused me on a forum I don't post on (but you're not obsessed, really you're not) of going in the PL season - for the record I didn't attend a single PL game. I attended some marches though.

It is equally crazy for people to claim that the rebrand has had a negligible effect.

The data sets are there. Compare 2011/12 with this season. Crowds went up in the first red season (I was there for many games) but a few of the old gang around me were losing interest. A few of us stopped after Brighton - I watched 2 more games the last being Charlton. People here boasted that the likes of TLG and Ken Smith (who both handed in their season tickets in Summer 2012 something I wish I had done) would be easily replaced. And, they were (I think Ken Smith actually replaced hisself for the PL fun). Until relegation from the EPL then both the replaceds and the replacers were nowhere to be seen.

Alfie Sherwood, Thames Valley Blue, Jordi Cule - just some posters alongside TLG who no longer go because of the rebrand. People still dispute that these people exist.

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Obviously a few stopped going. Some were very local about themselves in doung so for an age. Almost wearing it as a badge of honour.
Even a few seasons later they still drone on about it.

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Originally Posted by Gnojek

I started this thread and at the outset I said it wasn't about us (and I meant it). I was genuinely amazed at how low the crowds were at Burton and Reading last night. I'm all for the underdog, but surely Burton deserve a bigger support playing at the level they are. It must be a concern across the board.

It was also related to a recent story about Sky TV televising all midweek lower-league games. To me you can't beat watching sport live - there's no comparison. I have an almost irrational hatred of Sky TV and the generation of armchair fans its generated through its hype and blanket coverage of sport. I appreciate not everyone can make it to games and that's fine, but I will always argue that being at the game is so much better; what you see (Warnock going nuts at the fourth official), what you hear (the "Where's your Thatcher gone?" from the Ninian Stand towards the Forest fans in April 2013 is still my all-time favourite) and what you smell (the half-time Bovril). You get none of that at home.

Sat in the Family Stand, I'm quite near the away fans and always look over to see how many turn up, especially for midweek games. My son regularly asks me when they'd have started out and when they'll get home. I have admiration for fans like those from Barnsley last night. Same for when we played Ipswich, and of course for our fans who made the exact same reverse trips this season. They are the lifeblood of the game and it worries me when Sky are proposing more TV coverage, which could kill attendances and atmospheres even more.

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It was massively odds on it would be hijacked to hear the same old stuff.:hehe:

Sky TV has attracted big investors with no real interest in the club itself. Only way it stops is if people end their subscriptions. Aint going to happen,

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

This season's average is skewed somewhat by the alleged 27,000+ attendance for the early-season game against Leeds. I'm pretty sure there wouldn't have been any similarly large attendances brought about by cheap/free tickets in the other three seasons you mentioned.

The comparison with other clubs in those seasons is interesting. In 1970/71, City had the 4th highest average in the division. In 2010/11 it was the 6th highest. In 2012/13 it was the 5th highest. As you say, this season Cardiff are currently 14th in the Championship attendance rankings. Whisper it quietly, but even Bristol City's average is almost 2,000 higher.

If you had to name the five main factors in this season's low attendances, what would they be?

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Bristol City’s crowds are inflated due to the fact that kids pay £25 and with this they get a free shirt ..... I think they have shifted 6,000 of these , so their crowds are not reflective really.

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Originally Posted by Superdad

Bristol City’s crowds are inflated due to the fact that kids pay £25 and with this they get a free shirt ..... I think they have shifted 6,000 of these , so their crowds are not reflective really.

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Why aren't they reflective? They've decided to give marketing a go, something Cardiff City are abysmal at. This season I haven't seen one advertisement for Cardiff outside of the stadium, why aren't the club marketing themselves?

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Originally Posted by WJ99mobile

Attendances are pretty pathetic considering.

Personally believe it’s nothing to do with the rebrand.

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I do, I think quite a few tolerated it for a while with the lure of seeing their team playing in the top division in their lifetime, for some possibly old fans the last chance ever. After a shocking season in the sunshine I reckon many never came back, Russell slades football, political infighting....life’s too short

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Originally Posted by City123

Why aren't they reflective? They've decided to give marketing a go, something Cardiff City are abysmal at. This season I haven't seen one advertisement for Cardiff outside of the stadium, why aren't the club marketing themselves?

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Perhaps I’ve used the incorrect terminology. If we had the same deal (we had a similar “kids for free”deal under Ridsdale) then you could argue that out crowds would be at a minimum 2/3,000 higher.

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Originally Posted by Dr Lecter

Jirga.

Every time we win.

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Is he badly ironed shirt? I though jirga was a jack

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Originally Posted by City123

Why aren't they reflective? They've decided to give marketing a go, something Cardiff City are abysmal at. This season I haven't seen one advertisement for Cardiff outside of the stadium, why aren't the club marketing themselves?

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They are but you are either missing it or deliberatly ignoring it. They have been on local radio and tv stations pushing season tickets recently and had coverage in the local press and online as well. They have many initiatives in the area in schools and clubs and hold special events at the ground on match days. Season ticket prices have not increased for a number of years and they have a number of games each season with special prices for kids and extra adults. Stating they are 'abysmal' is out of order.

I state once again that our average home gate this season is just under 19000 and last season was 16500 - an increase of over 20%. Certain people just totally refuse to acknowledge this on this forum and spend their time trying to put a negative spin on everything. Luckily the people who run the club do see the wider picture, as do the majority of posters. Watching Slade and then Trollopes efforts at producing a successful team was enough to drive even the most ardent supporter to despair and the nearest tv screen.

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Originally Posted by dml1954

I state once again that our average home gate this season is just under 19000 and last season was 16500 - an increase of over 20%. Certain people just totally refuse to acknowledge this on this forum and spend their time trying to put a negative spin on everything. Luckily the people who run the club do see the wider picture, as do the majority of posters.

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I think the away support average must be about 500 higher this season also , that said, we have also had really low followings too, so, perhaps, not too much of a factor?

Anybody got the comparisons?

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Originally Posted by dml1954

They are but you are either missing it or deliberatly ignoring it. They have been on local radio and tv stations pushing season tickets recently and had coverage in the local press and online as well. They have many initiatives in the area in schools and clubs and hold special events at the ground on match days. Season ticket prices have not increased for a number of years and they have a number of games each season with special prices for kids and extra adults. Stating they are 'abysmal' is out of order.

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There is a massive billboard opposite the CCS. Its currently advertising the Six Nations game against Italy, abysmal is harsh but more could definitely be done

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Originally Posted by goats

Is he badly ironed shirt? I though jirga was a jack

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You are pretty dense, to be fair.

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Originally Posted by ken smith

How though? What if Tan stays for 10 or 20 more years. You could be pushing 60 by then and have wasted years of your life.

I gave my ticket back so I could make my own mind up without feeling like I was forced to going. It cost me £30 and got the rest of my money back. I went to my first game after about 6/7 games as one of the boys wasn't going. I decided I could cope, although I didn't go to the Brighton game which would probably have turned me off for life.

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Ah, so your boycott was over before Christmas? Fair play, you have a brass neck to pour any scorn on my decision to wait to see how the crowd responded to the rebrand. I got stung, I couldn't get a refund because I watched that Huddersfield game - and that game wasn't worth £399 so I continued watching games. As did you - just as soon as the PL became a reality :hehe: - For the record, I saw 0 Cardiff games in the Premier League. How many did you see?

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Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt

Ah, so your boycott was over before Christmas? Fair play, you have a brass neck to pour any scorn on my decision to wait to see how the crowd responded to the rebrand. I got stung, I couldn't get a refund because I watched that Huddersfield game - and that game wasn't worth £399 so I continued watching games. As did you - just as soon as the PL became a reality :hehe: - For the record, I saw 0 Cardiff games in the Premier League. How many did you see?

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More likely, Ken, you got a refund because the team weren't in the Premier League like you had hoped. Others were getting a refund because they felt strongly (more strongly than you or I) about the rebrand. You took the chance to join them because you couldn't stomach another season in the Championship.

Then, the team started winning. Premier League football was looking likely. So you ended your 5 game boycott and have been going ever since. You're a glory hunter...

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Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt

More likely, Ken, you got a refund because the team weren't in the Premier League like you had hoped. Others were getting a refund because they felt strongly (more strongly than you or I) about the rebrand. You took the chance to join them because you couldn't stomach another season in the Championship.

Then, the team started winning. Premier League football was looking likely. So you ended your 5 game boycott and have been going ever since. You're a glory hunter...

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:fishing::fishing::fishing:

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Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt

Ah, so your boycott was over before Christmas? Fair play, you have a brass neck to pour any scorn on my decision to wait to see how the crowd responded to the rebrand. I got stung, I couldn't get a refund because I watched that Huddersfield game - and that game wasn't worth £399 so I continued watching games. As did you - just as soon as the PL became a reality :hehe: - For the record, I saw 0 Cardiff games in the Premier League. How many did you see?

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If you clearly feel that disenfranchised with Cardiff City F.C why do you still post on this board then ?

Why don’t you post on a forum that you are passionate about, whether it be another sport, a swimming forum, Rugby....

Can you explain why you continue to post on here ?

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Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt

More likely, Ken, you got a refund because the team weren't in the Premier League like you had hoped. Others were getting a refund because they felt strongly (more strongly than you or I) about the rebrand. You took the chance to join them because you couldn't stomach another season in the Championship.

Then, the team started winning. Premier League football was looking likely. So you ended your 5 game boycott and have been going ever since. You're a glory hunter...

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More the fact I missed going to the pub before the match to be honest.

Anyway BIS, answer my question. What if Tan stays for 10 more years (or longer)?
You have said you will come back above, so are you going to waste 10/20 years on a message-board waiting for Tan to sell up or are you just going to get on with it?