Nigel Owen eggers ref demands football

Sin bins in football great idea:thumbup:

rugby league super league live evening matches have had their kick off times brought forward by 15 minutes because constant referring to the video ref has extended game times including half time to over two hours, games were kicking off at 8 and finishing past 10
general consensus being that it is overused und slows the game needlessly, also gives refs a cop out on all big decisions

There’s something ironic about the way in which the sending off of a player in your match only benefits the next team that plays them

It’s a cultural thing in football and nothing new Spanish and Italian players have been rolling around and cheating since the sixties and probably before ,just watch some clips of European games against British clubs from that era

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

He's probably one of the best refs in the world ......the world's best if you listen to the inbred incestuous Welsh media

And he makes some very good points


But he is just playing to the wendyball bigots , we don't need new rules we need refs willing to send people off for cheating ......mo Saleh took a dive a few weeks ago and they did feck all

A strong jack Taylor type old school ref is what's needed not yet another soccer , god I hate the way rugby types call it that ....... article

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Salah got booked for diving and even his own manager said he needs to cut that out straight away

Sin bins in football :)

Up there with popcorn at half time and goal music only it effects the game itself.

Fa Cup half time show next.

All we need are refs with a clear understanding of the rules and for those in charge to stop over complicating what is a very simple and enjoyable game.

TBH it's killing the game ........ I would like to see a siteing committee started, any player found guilty of driving or blatant cheating should be given a min 6 match ban and fined ££££.

Don't you think players who constantly dive (Cheat) would learn their lesson after being given a min 6 match ban and 6 weeks wage cut ........ donate the money to the development of grass roots footy.

It's absolutely disgusting how players get away with nowadays ...... Fine the Club and start deducting points if necessary :wave:

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Originally Posted by SABlue

TBH it's killing the game ........ I would like to see a siteing committee started, any player found guilty of driving or blatant cheating should be given a min 6 match ban and fined ££££.

Don't you think players who constantly dive (Cheat) would learn their lesson after being given a min 6 match ban and 6 weeks wage cut ........ donate the money to the development of grass roots footy.

It's absolutely disgusting how players get away with nowadays ...... Fine the Club and start deducting points if necessary :wave:

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Problem is you would need all countries doing the same otherwise the best foreign players wouldn't likely play over here

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Originally Posted by jamieccfc

Problem is you would need all countries doing the same otherwise the best foreign players wouldn't likely play over here

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The sin bin is a good idea. However as refs are so powerless to stop time wasting in football the ball probably wouldn’t come back into play for the next 10 minutes, as the clock still runs down and the ref does nothing.

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Originally Posted by jamieccfc

Problem is you would need all countries doing the same otherwise the best foreign players wouldn't likely play over here

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Agreed ........ FIFA have already taken a stance over Racism, now how about "Kick out Cheating" :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by light up the darkness

There’s something ironic about the way in which the sending off of a player in your match only benefits the next team that plays them

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As is a yellow card in the last 20 mins, it is of no consequence to the player who receives it and no benefit to the team who was wronged. If we want a free flowing attacking game then something needs to be done.

Yellow card for time wasting is just hilarious sometimes, nobody gives a shit.

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Originally Posted by Father Dougal

The sin bin is a good idea. However as refs are so powerless to stop time wasting in football the ball probably wouldn’t come back into play for the next 10 minutes, as the clock still runs down and the ref does nothing.

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Sin bin for time wasting too. Sin bin for cynical acts which disrupt attacking flow or the game in general.

I think a good way of getting rid of time wasting and diving overnight is to also book the captain for failing to control his team.

So someone is deemed to have dived, he gets a yellow and so does the captain. A team mate later dives and he gets a yellow and so does the captain get his second. Diving will be gone instantly.

Time wasting could follow the same rule but then sometimes what's deemed to be time wasting is hard to prove. Couldn't they just stop the clock when the ball is dead? Don't see why this is so hard to introduce.

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

Sin bin for time wasting too. Sin bin for cynical acts which disrupt attacking flow or the game in general.

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Just the point I was going to make. Teams will soon get the message.

The main problem seems to be the fact that a rugby referee has made the suggestion about players in football being sin-binned rather than the issue of sin-binning itself.

What really gets me is that the players who appear to be the most blatant cheats, the likes of Ali and Grealish for example, are all extremely good footballers and really don't need to cheat.

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Originally Posted by Nick

The main problem seems to be the fact that a rugby referee has made the suggestion about players in football being sin-binned rather than the issue of sin-binning itself.

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No its both. Rugby has its own issues. You dont see football refs sticking their noses into rugby.

Sin-binning is a sh!t idea. When football players start spear tackling players , punching the opposition unconscious , gouging and feigning injuries by carrying fake blood capsules like rugby then I may start listening to Owens. Until then Im quite happy to leave that cr@p out of the game.

Does Owens want football refs shouting stay onside stay onside as well?

Football has its issues. Looking at the way rugby is reffed isnt the answer.

He was probably just asked the question though and hes entitled to answer it.

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Originally Posted by light up the darkness

There’s something ironic about the way in which the sending off of a player in your match only benefits the next team that plays them

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Exactly. And that could be a team vying with you for promotion or a place above the relegation zone.
It's yet another case of that old internet chestnut. Everyone wants to express an opinion but some of those people become offensive when someone else does and in a civilised manner.

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Originally Posted by Hilts

No its both. Rugby has its own issues. You dont see football refs sticking their noses into rugby.

Sin-binning is a sh!t idea. When football players start spear tackling players , punching the opposition unconscious , gouging and feigning injuries by carrying fake blood capsules like rugby then I may start listening to Owens. Until then Im quite happy to leave that cr@p out of the game.

Does Owens want football refs shouting stay onside stay onside as well?

Football has its issues. Looking at the way rugby is reffed isnt the answer.

He was probably just asked the question though and hes entitled to answer it.

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It sounds like you are 'sticking your nose' into rugby :hehe:

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

It sounds like you are 'sticking your nose' into rugby :hehe:

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😂

I could go on.😂

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Originally Posted by sneggyblubird

I just wonder what the reaction would be if this had been said by somebody in football.All this play acting shite is killing the game.Its interesting though in countries like Italy this kind of behaviour is often regarded as being clever.This thread ought to be retitled to "Shoot the messenger"

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Worldwide,football has never been so popular

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Originally Posted by Hilts

No its both. Rugby has its own issues. You dont see football refs sticking their noses into rugby.

Sin-binning is a sh!t idea. When football players start spear tackling players , punching the opposition unconscious , gouging and feigning injuries by carrying fake blood capsules like rugby then I may start listening to Owens. Until then Im quite happy to leave that cr@p out of the game.

Does Owens want football refs shouting stay onside stay onside as well?

Football has its issues. Looking at the way rugby is reffed isnt the answer.

He was probably just asked the question though and hes entitled to answer it.

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You seem to be looking at issues that have been long sorted in reference to rugby.Even that fake blood incident(the only one in its history)was sorted severely but by your inference it seems you think it still goes on.Its funny actually that when you think about it the things that you mention and were sorted only highlights the fact that we have a problem in football thats been around since I can remember, yet the authorities seem uninterested or unable to do something about it and yet you critisise a bloke just for having an opinion.You should have started off with your last sentence and left it at that.

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Originally Posted by sneggyblubird

You seem to be looking at issues that have been long sorted in reference to rugby.Even that fake blood incident(the only one in its history)was sorted severely but by your inference it seems you think it still goes on.Its funny actually that when you think about it the things that you mention and were sorted only highlights the fact that we have a problem in football thats been around since I can remember, yet the authorities seem uninterested or unable to do something about it and yet you critisise a bloke just for having an opinion.You should have started off with your last sentence and left it at that.

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Diving in football = blood capsules in rugby :hehe::facepalm:

As someone said earlier, sin-bins would not work in football. Look at the mess VAR has got into. No, football (not fecking soccer!) Is a great game that needs to be free flowing and not stop start like American football and rugger.
Incidents of foul play, diving and time wasking need to be dealt with more firmly by the refs, and backed up by their masters.

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Originally Posted by jeremy corbyn

As someone said earlier, sin-bins would not work in football. Look at the mess VAR has got into. No, football (not fecking soccer!) Is a great game that needs to be free flowing and not stop start like American football and rugger.
Incidents of foul play, diving and time wasking need to be dealt with more firmly by the refs, and backed up by their masters.

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Not entirely sure what Nigel is asking for but my point is simply that the final quarter of games are not free flowing. So often the team in front (or in the case of a draw, the team who is happy with a point) frustrate in terms of time wasting and disrupt in terms of cynical fouling. Each player 'takes' a yellow card rendering the punishment completely pointless. Yellow card with 20 mins to go is like the ref waving his shopping list, no effect whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by jeremy corbyn

As someone said earlier, sin-bins would not work in football. Look at the mess VAR has got into. No, football (not fecking soccer!) Is a great game that needs to be free flowing and not stop start like American football and rugger.
Incidents of foul play, diving and time wasking need to be dealt with more firmly by the refs, and backed up by their masters.

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Why would a sin-bin decision necessarily take a VAR stoppage when a yellow card incident doesn't?

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Originally Posted by Since64

Worldwide,football has never been so popular

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I wonder if you can substantiate that comment?

All Sports can learn from each other, Goal line technology from Tennis has proved successful, VAR WILL come into football to help refs and diving or play acting needs eliminating from our game,perhaps sin bins will solve, without trying no one will know?

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

VAR was pushed and pushed again by Sky - for 2 seasons at least every dodgy decision prompted ' we need VAR' comments. For the TV companies it's an added bit of 'drama', and so will sin bins. All it will do is slow down the game even more, and unlike rugby where an extra man makes all the difference, all you will see is 10 men behind the ball for the duration of the 'ban'...

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Exactly.

Also, player's taking an age to take a throw-in, players taking an age to take a goal kick. All the while knowing that 10 minutes in football is 10 minutes. The ref will add on time at the end of the half for all the time wasting.

If they bring in a sin-bin, it will be exciting for a season, then people will moan about how referees are seemingly trying to be centre of attention (which is one jibe we often get about referees).

Who is going to monitor the 15 minutes sin bin? The fourth official? They don't get that luxury in tier 7 of the pyramid. It's been introduced in tier 7 this season, the referees hate it, the players hate it, the fans hate it.

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Originally Posted by light up the darkness

There’s something ironic about the way in which the sending off of a player in your match only benefits the next team that plays them

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Except it doesn't.

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Originally Posted by Nick

The main problem seems to be the fact that a rugby referee has made the suggestion about players in football being sin-binned rather than the issue of sin-binning itself.

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Not true, in fact those arguing against the sin bin are mainly giving reasons why it won't work. As yet, you haven't given any reason why you agree,

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Originally Posted by jeremy corbyn

As someone said earlier, sin-bins would not work in football. Look at the mess VAR has got into. No, football (not fecking soccer!) Is a great game that needs to be free flowing and not stop start like American football and rugger.
Incidents of foul play, diving and time wasking need to be dealt with more firmly by the refs, and backed up by their masters.

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What is wrong with using the word soccer Jeremy?

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Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt

Not true, in fact those arguing against the sin bin are mainly giving reasons why it won't work. As yet, you haven't given any reason why you agree,

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I have yet to see a cogent argument in this thread as to why sin bins would not work in football, despite you suggesting that everyone is giving reasons it won't work.

Take your reasoning for example, and I quote:

"Owen also doesn't appreciate that sin bins won't work in football because football isn't rugby (thank feck)"

A good strong argument, that - Sin bins won't work in football because football isn't rugby.

Had video assistance been in place during the European final then Ramos would probably have spent at least 30 minutes in the bin for elbowing the keeper and for blatantly cheating and trying to get a free-kick / booking / Sending off for Mane. That may have made a difference to the outcome of the game.

I do hope, however, that some retrospective action is taken against Ramos for what was picked un on video, as referred to above. He deserves to be banned for quite a few games for those antics, which are not needed and not welcome on any football pitch or any other sporting field for that matter.

I still see the main problem in this thread being a rugby referee making a comment on football rather than the issue of VAR / sin bins in themselves.

It is woven throughout the whole of the thread.

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Originally Posted by Elwood Blues

What is wrong with using the word soccer Jeremy?

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Association Football?

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Originally Posted by Trigger

I think a good way of getting rid of time wasting and diving overnight is to also book the captain for failing to control his team.

So someone is deemed to have dived, he gets a yellow and so does the captain. A team mate later dives and he gets a yellow and so does the captain get his second. Diving will be gone instantly.

Time wasting could follow the same rule but then sometimes what's deemed to be time wasting is hard to prove. Couldn't they just stop the clock when the ball is dead? Don't see why this is so hard to introduce.

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Because travelling fans would miss the last train home. Oh yeah, I forgot, only arm chair fans matter.

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Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt

Exactly.

Also, player's taking an age to take a throw-in, players taking an age to take a goal kick. All the while knowing that 10 minutes in football is 10 minutes. The ref will add on time at the end of the half for all the time wasting.

If they bring in a sin-bin, it will be exciting for a season, then people will moan about how referees are seemingly trying to be centre of attention (which is one jibe we often get about referees).

Who is going to monitor the 15 minutes sin bin? The fourth official? They don't get that luxury in tier 7 of the pyramid. It's been introduced in tier 7 this season, the referees hate it, the players hate it, the fans hate it.

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In your scenario the defending side are now down to eight men as the thrower-in and the goalie will have been sin-binned for time wasting too but it would be a difficult thing to monitor in a game where the clock doesn't stop, I agree. Any stoppages for subbing & injuries as well as time wasting would need to be added on to the sin-bin and it would get complicated but I still think it's an interesting idea.

I take the point about parking the bus but that wouldn't be as simple as it would with a red card. A yellow card for a keeper isn't a punishment most of the time so he's happy to take one but a sin-bin would make him think twice. Being left without a recognised keeper for 10 minutes would be tricky, the manager can bring one on from the bench (as he would with a red card) but when the keeper's sin-bin is over he's left with two keepers so would have to make another sub (assuming he's got any left). Even a centre-half going off wouldn't be straightforward, I'm sure Warnock wouldn't fancy Mendez-Laing filling in at right back while Peltier or Manga goes inside but if he makes a defensive sub he's left with a back five when the centre-half comes back on.

Sin-bins would be more of a deterrent than people think, in my opinion. I assume you made your last sentence up to back up your argument (do they really have fans at that level?). I can't find any feedback on the trial scheme anywhere but I'd be interested if you've actually got a link

This is the list of leagues in which sin-bins were being trialled in the 2017/18 season, just finished. I don't suppose for one minute there have been any full and impartial views on the success or failure in the use of sin-bins in these leagues.

• Anglian Combination League • Jersey Football Combination

• Army Football League Massey • JJ Jones Builders Duchy League

• Birmingham & District Football League • Liverpool County FA Premier League

• Bolton, Bury & District Football League • Mid Sussex Football League

• Chester & Wirral Football League • Mid Sussex Youth & Minor Football League

• Cumberland County League • Midwest Counties Female

• Devon and Exeter Football League • North Staffs Youth League

• Dorset Premier League • Nottinghamshire Senior Football League

• Durham County Women’s • Notts. Amateur Alliance

• Evesham & District Sunday Football League • Peterborough & District Football League

• Gloucestershire County Women's League • Potteries & District Sunday League

• Gloucestershire Northern Senior League • Sevenoaks and District Football League

• Hertfordshire Senior County League • Sheffield & District Junior Sunday League

• Hitchin Sunday League • Southern Amateur League

• Surrey Primary Youth League • Trelawny League

• Taunton & District Saturday League • Warrington Sunday Football League

I have been looking from reviews form referees, players and fans of clubs in these leagues and I have yet to find anything.

I'm sure these reviews must be out there somewhere but I am yet to discover any of them. Obviously, these leagues are very much at the lower end of football leagues throughout the UK but again, I'm sure if reviews were out there they could be found.

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Originally Posted by Auntie Andy

Who said anything about rugby being evil? For your information and Mr Gammons , I support Senghenydd in rugby. I watch them when the City are away, most weeks. Also watch my nephews play for Senghenydd youth. I just don’t like Nigel Owens, he gets on my bloody nerves with his “this is not soccer” and all the other anti football jibes he makes.

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Fair enough. A lot of City fan's do seem to have a chip on their shoulder when it comes to rugby.

I heard Nigel Owens on a Colin Murray program the other day. He did seem a bit up himself (whilst trying to point out how humble and modest he is). But whatever. I don't see him having any real impact on the future of football anytime soon so take it with a pinch of salt.

I still think if you can have VAR in the game, sin-binning for diving would be perfectly feasible and might even add another level of excitment to the game. Those 15 minutes would be like the last 15 of a match where one team is attacking relentlessly and the other defending for their lives. Would probably make it more of a spectacle.

As for using it to deter diving, the problem (which has probably been mentioned) is catching them in the act.

The whole point of a dive is that it is designed to fool the ref ..... and a lot of times it works.

Diving should probably be made a VAR issue. If Mane gets a yellow for tapping SR on the face and he makes a meal of it, the video ref should be able to judge that the reaction was over the top and an attempt to get the opposition player booked.

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Originally Posted by Nick

I have yet to see a cogent argument in this thread as to why sin bins would not work in football, despite you suggesting that everyone is giving reasons it won't work.

Take your reasoning for example, and I quote:

"Owen also doesn't appreciate that sin bins won't work in football because football isn't rugby (thank feck)"

A good strong argument, that - Sin bins won't work in football because football isn't rugby.

Had video assistance been in place during the European final then Ramos would probably have spent at least 30 minutes in the bin for elbowing the keeper and for blatantly cheating and trying to get a free-kick / booking / Sending off for Mane. That may have made a difference to the outcome of the game.

I do hope, however, that some retrospective action is taken against Ramos for what was picked un on video, as referred to above. He deserves to be banned for quite a few games for those antics, which are not needed and not welcome on any football pitch or any other sporting field for that matter.

I still see the main problem in this thread being a rugby referee making a comment on football rather than the issue of VAR / sin bins in themselves.

It is woven throughout the whole of the thread.

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Not at all, and I've made more views than just the one you've quoted and taken offence at. To elaborate, rugby is a sport with more natural stoppages than football. It is also a sport where refereeing decisions are not held under scrutiny in front of millions of TV viewers every week, and where referees are blamed for teams losing big matches. These last two points are what I think is wrong with football - along with cheating.

The only arguments I have heard for its implementation in football are that it would "stamp out cheating" (no facts to back this up) and it would be interesting.

The referee already has the tools in place to stop dissent. The FA has the tools to punish cheating and diving.

As for Nigel Owens - he has no interest in football. This much is a fact. He's often spoken disparagingly about football and I don't think I've ever seen a comment from him that speaks of football positively. Does that invalidate his opinion? No. Is it the main thrust of our argument? No.

Rugby is a different game, there are more stoppages, there is less feigning of injury, it is more of a contact sport than football (hence feigning injury will get little reward). Losing a player in rugby is a stiffer penalty than in football.

The question is, why aren't refs tougher on players they catch cheating, or showing dissent, or time wasting? Why aren't the football associations tougher when looking at incidents missed by referees? And why do we have supreme confidence that the people who fail to "control" these behaviours with existing tools will get a better result from sin bins? I'd suggest that the use of sin bins would be selective (not applied to goalies, not applied to a player when a team mate is already there).

The refchat site has a forum where actual referees discuss the implementation of this in their leagues.

If I have time later, I will dig out the pages that I was reading.

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Originally Posted by Divine Wright

Fair enough. A lot of City fan's do seem to have a chip on their shoulder when it comes to rugby.

I heard Nigel Owens on a Colin Murray program the other day. He did seem a bit up himself (whilst trying to point out how humble and modest he is). But whatever. I don't see him having any real impact on the future of football anytime soon so take it with a pinch of salt.

I still think if you can have VAR in the game, sin-binning for diving would be perfectly feasible and might even add another level of excitment to the game. Those 15 minutes would be like the last 15 of a match where one team is attacking relentlessly and the other defending for their lives. Would probably make it more of a spectacle.

As for using it to deter diving, the problem (which has probably been mentioned) is catching them in the act.

The whole point of a dive is that it is designed to fool the ref ..... and a lot of times it works.

Diving should probably be made a VAR issue. If Mane gets a yellow for tapping SR on the face and he makes a meal of it, the video ref should be able to judge that the reaction was over the top and an attempt to get the opposition player booked.

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Where's the cutoff for VAR? Premier League? Championship? Conference?

I think tennis is crap becauseAndy Murray v Roger Federer on centre court has a different set of parameters than Kyle Edmunds v John Isner on Court 12 despite them being in the same round of the same competition. Cardiff v Man C - no VAR, the match later in the day had VAR.

VAR is not infallible. It never will be.