Grenfell Tower effigy idiots

I seriously think getting the police involved in stuff like this gives the far right what they want. People like this are weird and horrible c*nts and should have that pointed out to them and let that naturally affect their lives.

Searching their house fuels the rhetoric that you can’t say anything anymore without being arrested, when really that’s complete bollocks.

If you’re one of those idiots who sees this and thinks you can’t even make jokes any more though I think that says more about you than anything else.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

I seriously think getting the police involved in stuff like this gives the far right what they want. People like this are weird and horrible c*nts and should have that pointed out to them and let that naturally affect their lives.

Searching their house fuels the rhetoric that you can’t say anything anymore without being arrested, when really that’s complete bollocks.

If you’re one of those idiots who sees this and thinks you can’t even make jokes any more though I think that says more about you than anything else.

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Is it just me or is that a bit of a contradiction in what you say?

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Originally Posted by Maccy Blue

Is it just me or is that a bit of a contradiction in what you say?

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Which bit?

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

Which bit?

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This bit: 'Searching their house fuels the rhetoric that you can’t say anything anymore without being arrested, when really that’s complete bollocks'.

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Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.

This bit: 'Searching their house fuels the rhetoric that you can’t say anything anymore without being arrested, when really that’s complete bollocks'.

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They’re searching their house because it’s been reported as a hate crime and they went to the police because they were worried about the threats they were getting. The police are doing their job and finding and gathering evidence, no one has been charged.

I know May has come out and expressed shock and that this type of behaviour is unacceptable but it is fair to ask in response a) what contributed to Grenfell in the first place? and b) what lead to these people thinking it was ok to make this joke and wouldn't have consequence if out online? Vans with "Migrants go home" was May and was part of deliberate policy to try and push migrants out or stop them coming in the first place (originally labour and then taken to another level by Tories). Those in Grenfell made quite a lot of noise to show that their tower wasn't safe and were ignored while their council hand back revenue collected by taxes rather than, for example, regulate owners of towers of other things that council tax can pay for. It's very convenient for politicians to promote shock over this and condemn these individuals if it makes us forget than part of Grenfell was chosen political policy and part of this is off the back of chosen political policy.

Do you no think it also brings up a wider point about the paradox of free speech too, should you really be allowed to say whatever you want if it lowers the freedom of others?

Should Abu Hamza be allowed to preach in the streets about killing infidels? Should I be allowed to stand in the streets saying kill all the Jews?

However you want to look at it there’s always been a line and there always has to be. The line here is whether this is a hate crime or not. Not whether it’s a joke or not.

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Originally Posted by surge

I know May has come out and expressed shock and that this type of behaviour is unacceptable but it is fair to ask in response a) what contributed to Grenfell in the first place? and b) what lead to these people thinking it was ok to make this joke and wouldn't have consequence if out online? Vans with "Migrants go home" was May and was part of deliberate policy to try and push migrants out or stop them coming in the first place (originally labour and then taken to another level by Tories). Those in Grenfell made quite a lot of noise to show that their tower wasn't safe and were ignored while their council hand back revenue collected by taxes rather than, for example, regulate owners of towers of other things that council tax can pay for. It's very convenient for politicians to promote shock over this and condemn these individuals if it makes us forget than part of Grenfell was chosen political policy and part of this is off the back of chosen political policy.

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:thumbup:

The police aren’t doing their job properly when crime in London is rampant and they’re wasting time on someone that burnt a cardboard cut out on Bonfire night.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

Do you no think it also brings up a wider point about the paradox of free speech too, should you really be allowed to say whatever you want if it lowers the freedom of others?

Should Abu Hamza be allowed to preach in the streets about killing infidels? Should I be allowed to stand in the streets saying kill all the Jews?

However you want to look at it there’s always been a line and there always has to be. The line here is whether this is a hate crime or not. Not whether it’s a joke or not.

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He was.

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Originally Posted by KenfigBlues

The police aren’t doing their job properly when crime in London is rampant and they’re wasting time on someone that burnt a cardboard cut out on Bonfire night.

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How many police do you think are needed to search a house? Do you think the same people do the same job?

If you’re worried about “rampant” crime in London you should be more worried about what the actual causes of that are than having some ridiculous rant about something that has zero affect on that.

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Originally Posted by Maccy Blue

He was.

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Why’s he serving life in prison then?

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

Why’s he serving life in prison then?

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He was let to preach his vile hatred for years and years but they were too afraid to do anything about it. This went on for ages and he was vilified for it but nobody did a damn thing. He was caught after some undercover filming a lot further down the line after numerous complaints from the right wing media.

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Originally Posted by Maccy Blue

He was let to preach his vile hatred for years and years but they were too afraid to do anything about it. This went on for ages and he was vilified for it but nobody did a damn thing. He was caught after some undercover filming a lot further down the line after numerous complaints from the right wing media.

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I agree they should have done something earlier about it, I’m not saying the system is perfect.

Do you think they wanted to do nothing though? Or do you think there’s more to it than we know?

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

How many police do you think are needed to search a house? Do you think the same people do the same job?

If you’re worried about “rampant” crime in London you should be more worried about what the actual causes of that are than having some ridiculous rant about something that has zero affect on that.

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Maybe If they’d moved a few of the 900 hate crime squad on to tracking down and removing illegal immigrants the death toll would have been lower but I’m sure going after people burning a cardboard box is better use of resources.

Certain areas of London seem to be spiralling out of control, while I agree it’s disgusting what these tossers did, the spate of murders this year is terrifying and shouldn’t be relegated to ‘middle of the paper’ news. Seems to be getting like the Wild West in parts.

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Originally Posted by KenfigBlues

The police aren’t doing their job properly when crime in London is rampant and they’re wasting time on someone that burnt a cardboard cut out on Bonfire night.

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Do you think that some people who are willing to burn an effigy such as this would also be those committing more serious crimes? If police can intervene at less severe level and stop more severe crime then isn't that the best way of doing their job?

Of course part of the equation is whether there is time to do different things to reduce crime overall or if you have to focus resources, and then do you focus resources on what might have the widest impact of prevention or simply reacting to severe crimes. Where do you find the right balance? I don't know and police chiefs, somewhat inevitably, always ask for more which might then distract from other areas of the UK needing financial support.

Everythong we discuss takes some level of direction from chosen political policy so you can't ignore it.

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Originally Posted by surge

Do you think that some people who are willing to burn an effigy such as this would also be those committing more serious crimes?

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Complete and utter rubbish. The vast majority of us have laughed at a ‘sick joke’ or wished ill on someone at some point in their lives. You honestly expect me to believe they’ve just stopped a future terror cell in the making? What about comedians who’ve made jokes about 9/11 are they Jihadists in the making? Is Frankie Boyle joining the KKK because he made jokes about Harvey Price?

It was a joke albeit in very poor taste. Far more important problems out there than this.

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Originally Posted by KenfigBlues

Complete and utter rubbish. The vast majority of us have laughed at a ‘sick joke’ or wished ill on someone at some point in their lives. You honestly expect me to believe they’ve just stopped a future terror cell in the making? What about comedians who’ve made jokes about 9/11 are they Jihadists in the making? Is Frankie Boyle joining the KKK because he made jokes about Harvey Price?

It was a joke albeit in very poor taste. Far more important problems out there than this.

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True, the families of the recent stabbing victims in London have far more serious issues to deal with at this moment.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

I agree they should have done something earlier about it, I’m not saying the system is perfect.

Do you think they wanted to do nothing though? Or do you think there’s more to it than we know?

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I am quite certain that they were told to hold off. Whether this was from a point of not wanting to tarnish the reputation of the 'racist police force' or from giving him enough rope to hang himself so the charges would stick I am not sure. But giving people like him the chance to preach his vile shite is not acceptable when comparing the 'burning of grenfell' incident to what he has said makes you wonder what the agenda is for this government. I will say again that what these twats have done is wrong but does the media reaction and vilification seem justified compared to some of the other things going on at the moment?

It is very saddening that people are choosing to use an horrific incident to laugh at non-whites/British is funny, but you can see why the retards can see it that way.

I was at a concert the other night and a bloke was showing off a tattoo showing a nazi flag above a lovely rendition of hitler. I could have wept.

I agree with everything you’ve said :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by KenfigBlues

Maybe If they’d moved a few of the 900 hate crime squad on to tracking down and removing illegal immigrants the death toll would have been lower but I’m sure going after people burning a cardboard box is better use of resources.

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What? Do you really mean that?

I don't know how many, if any, of the Grenfell residents were in the country illegally, but your comment makes it sound as if they were partly responsible for the horror that came their way. If not that you seem to imply that if some of the residents were not in the country their flats would be empty and not occupied by some other victim? Jeez!

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Originally Posted by jon1959

What? Do you really mean that?

I don't know how many, if any, of the Grenfell residents were in the country illegally, but your comment makes it sound as if they were partly responsible for the horror that came their way. If not that you seem to imply that if some of the residents were not in the country their flats would be empty and not occupied by some other victim? Jeez!

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It’s weird how much victim blaming has happened with grenfel. It’s just because it’s non white british too.

He’s shown his true colours with that post. I imagine he’s been lapping up what tommy Robinson and Katie Hopkins have been making up about it.

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Originally Posted by KenfigBlues

Maybe If they’d moved a few of the 900 hate crime squad on to tracking down and removing illegal immigrants the death toll would have been lower but I’m sure going after people burning a cardboard box is better use of resources.

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You’ve got f*cking issues pal

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Originally Posted by splott parker

Certain areas of London seem to be spiralling out of control, while I agree it’s disgusting what these tossers did, the spate of murders this year is terrifying and shouldn’t be relegated to ‘middle of the paper’ news. Seems to be getting like the Wild West in parts.

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117 homicides in London this year. ONS latest estimate for total population of London is 8,787,892, that makes for a homicide rate of one in every 75,000. I wouldn't describe that as terrifying.

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Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.

117 homicides in London this year. ONS latest estimate for total population of London is 8,787,892, that makes for a homicide rate of one in every 75,000. I wouldn't describe that as terrifying.

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That’s why I said ‘certain areas’, not London as a whole. Some parts of the city seem to be decidedly dodgy.

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Originally Posted by splott parker

That’s why I said ‘certain areas’, not London as a whole. Some parts of the city seem to be decidedly dodgy.

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What huge city in the world doesn’t have that though?

It’s caused by huge inequality and the drug trade. A couple of police looking around someone’s house has no effect either way.

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Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.

117 homicides in London this year. ONS latest estimate for total population of London is 8,787,892, that makes for a homicide rate of one in every 75,000. I wouldn't describe that as terrifying.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

What huge city in the world doesn’t have that though?

It’s caused by huge inequality and the drug trade. A couple of police looking around someone’s house has no effect either way.

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Nail on head, the drug trade is causing most of the problems I imagine. Young wannabe gangsters fighting & killing each other for the right to supply people a lot more well heeled than them. Viscous circle.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

It’s weird how much victim blaming has happened with grenfel. It’s just because it’s non white british too.

He’s shown his true colours with that post. I imagine he’s been lapping up what tommy Robinson and Katie Hopkins have been making up about it.

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Cry me a river, you snowflake tool.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

What? Do you really mean that?

I don't know how many, if any, of the Grenfell residents were in the country illegally, but your comment makes it sound as if they were partly responsible for the horror that came their way. If not that you seem to imply that if some of the residents
were not in the country their flats would be empty and not occupied by some other victim? Jeez!

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Do I mean I’d rather see police resources used to remove illegals, stopping knife crime etc etc. Than arresting people for burning cardboard then yes.

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Originally Posted by KenfigBlues

The police raiding their house is front page yet half way down is 5 knife crimes in London this week alone (one death)

Ridiculous, the countries ****ed.

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Come on, the police hardly had an alternative but to act. The story makes news headlines, there's widespread condemnation of this, the perpetrators hand themselves in, so the police can hardly turn a blind eye to it.

I would be very surprised if the police turn a blind eye to knife crime that's reported. We need more police on the streets, that's for sure, but until the government are prepared to fund it, this is the way it is.

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Originally Posted by KenfigBlues

Im not a snowflake. If you find that weird that’s your problem.

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No, but you're quick to label people you don't know. You might also want to research where the term comes from.

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Originally Posted by KenfigBlues

Maybe If they’d moved a few of the 900 hate crime squad on to tracking down and removing illegal immigrants the death toll would have been lower but I’m sure going after people burning a cardboard box is better use of resources.

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So you feel that removing illegal immigrants is more important than tackling hate crime? Crikey.

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Originally Posted by KenfigBlues

Cry me a river, you snowflake tool.

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The state of this guy :hehe:

Any other internet idiot buzzwords you want to trot out? Cuck maybe?

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Originally Posted by splott parker

Nail on head, the drug trade is causing most of the problems I imagine. Young wannabe gangsters fighting & killing each other for the right to supply people a lot more well heeled than them. Viscous circle.

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Exactly the problem huge demand for drugs from the middle and upper classes working in the city.

It’s always the poorer people involved who end up in turf wars and getting stabbed.

We blame it on lack or police resource and “immigrants” but the war on drugs is what fuels the violence.

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Originally Posted by rudy gestede

The state of this guy :hehe:

Any other internet idiot buzzwords you want to trot out? Cuck maybe?

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He’s not worth anyone’s time.

I’ve no more time for the liberal left wing tools on here. You’re as bad as the far right.

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Originally Posted by KenfigBlues

I’ve no more time for the liberal left wing tools on here. You’re as bad as the far right.

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Why though? Because we have sympathy with people who were killed in a fire? Or because we don’t think a couple of police dealing with this case affects crime in London?

Maybe instead of shouting angry platitudes you could try and actually say what your problem is and if it’s actually different to what’s being said in this thread?

Just a point of information, this area of London has been a fabulous mixed community for decades, (Portobello Road) but in the last 10 years there's been a huge regeneration in North Kensington and folk with money have moved in and pushed out the community that have lived there for years....The people that perished in the fire were mostly Morrocan that lived up the Goldbourne Road side originally but have been pushed out to what the money people feel is an undesirable tower-block.
I was the norman tebbit get on your bike generation, so I did and got myself a council flat in Portobello road in the 80s when no one wanted to live here because of the place being deemed rough and crime ridden, now they would like me to feck off back to Merthyr Tydfil so that some david cameron type can purchase my property.....and lastly when i grew up in the valleys in the 70s we prided ourselves on not being a racist community and we welcomed everyone especially people of colour after all we were black for 16 hours a day because of digging coal....sadly attitudes have changed by some.

Jeremy Vine debating this and the issues raised by some in this thread on his show.

Anyone fancy going with your views?