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What was the question on the ballot paper to enter, did everyone know what they were voting for ? was it nuanced by Ted Heath's spin ? was it a general election or a party manifesto, did the youngsters of the day get a chance to vote on their future ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie
The question on the 1975 ballot paper was:Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelsonca61
"Do you think that the United Kingdom should stay in the European Community (The Common Market?"
The question was therefore not nuanced or qualified by any political party's spin and was not therefore part of a party manifesto.
As for your question about youngsters, the voting age was the same as it is now.
For the record, the vote was 70% to 30%.
As for people possibly not knowing what they were really voting for, quite possibly they didn't understand the complexity and full ramifications. That was my first visiot to the ballot box so I have some memory of it albeit hazy.
All I can remember , no one in Llanrumney liked that posh talking Ted yachting ,MP chap , we had are own posh Jim of the Callaghan who had no Yacht though , however he never looked at ease at Countisbury Avenue Shops , if that helps 😏Quote:
Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie
So "No Deal" is simultaneously kicked into the long grass and taken to the brink?Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
I see this morning's version of putting the country above a narrow political agenda involves May's commitment to speak to members of other political parties but not the Leader of the Opposition and set a series of red lines that immediately rule out some of the alternative options proposed to dig us out of the mess she created.
You would have thought last night's vote would have made the architects of this shambles, chastened not emboldened but it appears that a combination of intransigence, incompetence and petty party politicking is still the modus operandi of this government.
As someone who has voted Labour in about 90% of the elections I've been eligible to take part in, can I say that the attitude of Richard Burgon here shows why it's likely that we'll still end up with a Tory Government even if Labour gets the General Election that it's so desperate for - his comments are completely inappropriate for the situation the country finds itself in.
https://twitter.com/Channel4News/sta...02626349142016
Did we join in 1975 ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie
The way I see it is this:
The referendum was advisory, and the public advised parliament that they wanted to leave the EU.
It's now down to parliament to sort this out. As a representative democracy, with the majority being remainers, the MPs had the right to just say "nah! you don't know what you're talking about, we're going to ignore you" but that would be political suicide, however as it's their duty to do what they believe is best for the country they could have done that.
So they have to fashion a way out of the EU. We have to remember now that the majority of MPs are remainers, a proportion of the Brexiteers will be for some sort of deal, and a proportion of Brexiteers will be for a hard Brexit no deal.
The EU have set their stall out from day 1 - to have a customs union there must be freedom of movement (goods, people, services, and capital), Teresa May has said no to these, so no real deal will be available, it's either no deal, brexit in name only, or no brexit.
Teresa May went for the Brexit in name only option which didn't suit anyone and resulted in last nights historic defeat.
The choices now are No deal and no Brexit.
The majority of MPs see no deal as disastrous for the country and will do everything that they can to avoid it. Which, unless another deal can be agreed and passed, leaves No Brexit.
Parliament can withdraw A50 without going back to the people if they so wished - again though political suicide, so a second vote is the only way (options really can only be no deal or no Brexit). None of this is undemocratic, as said by many.
As parliament is representative, those representatives don't have to follow the wishes of the people.
When the referendum was called the government should have had a plan in place at that point.
When the result was announced the government should have put in place a cross party plan and worked on all of this prior to triggering A50.
But neither of these happened. The main people who instigated this (Cameron, Gove, Johnson etc...) disappeared and left it up to others to pick up the pieces. May has been in a difficult position (anyone would have been) but she had done herself no favours with her pig headed attitude and incompetence.
As an aside a lot (not all) of the reasons that people voted out and blamed the EU for were not actually the EU's fault, often the UK government had it in their power to sort things out but didn't do so.
So many people don't know this.Quote:
Originally Posted by rs3100
The decision to join the EEC was taken by Edward Heath’s government in 197 but Labour’s manifesto promised a referendum on Britain’s ongoing membership.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelsonca61
not just his governmentQuote:
Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays
Something I was unaware of until last week was the decision made by the Labour government in respect of not imposing a transition period in respect of migrant workers from the 10 new EU member states in 2004 (8 of those member states being the former Eastern bloc countries).
Only Britain, Sweden and Ireland took this course of action and the other 12 existing member states chose to impose controls.
The Labour party took advice from the Home Office, which hugely underestimated the numbers coming in to a shoicking degree.
Had the UK government opted to have the transition period concerned it could possibly be that UKIP would not have garnered the same degree of the support they had in the years prior to the referendum and that Cameron would have not taken the action that he inadvisably did and that the Brexit vote tipping point may not have been reached.
You appear to be rewriting history!Quote:
Originally Posted by rs3100
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUsKWsPcRXE
Is an indefinite backstop one of these sacrifices? Was two years of negotiation to put us is a worse situation one of these sacrifices?Quote:
Originally Posted by lardy
Jonathon Pie nails it.
http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae5t1CZFCU8
It's getting complicated now and hard to follow :
It's my deal or no deal.
It's my deal or no deal
It's my deal or no deal
It's my deal or no deal
The people need a general election .
The people need a general election .
The people need a general election .
The people need a general election .
Let's have a vote of confidence.
Let's have a vote of confidence.
Let's have a vote of confidence.
Let's have a vote of confidence.
Complex stuff this.
Argh I see, so a government joined the UK into an EEC with no democratic vote of the people, my hunch was right :xmasthumbup: it wasn't 197 however :hehe: so those, who due to a ballot to get out of something that they were never afforded the opportunity to decide if they wanted in, are subjected to internet bullies and badged with, insert whatever ist you want, it’s a bike like all Cardiff City fans getting called hooligans due to a minority I spose, when the referendum took place in 1975 and (I was only 14 at this time, and 12 when we went in, so had to accept the 70% majority as deciding my future) and with no second election called for or offered I guess due to democracy!!!, that the future (political union), (overriding laws), (European army), (trade agreements) was obviously disclosed so that the voters had all the facts of future intention, since this period the UK also joined the ERM, sold its Gold reserves although I would guess that much of this was stolen anyway, taken part in two absolutely needless wars with terrible loss of life for 1000’s of you men all sides, and all without the requirement for a vote, yet when the country does have a vote, the minority cannot accept it and revert to internet doxing as their only means of debate, he’s a wracist, he’s a little Englander, he’s a xenophobe et al. he’s thick and don’t have a clue etc. etc. Like many I thought Colin was foolish in his outburst (not because of it) but because as far as I’m aware, he was in the CCS being interviewed after a game (praps he was in his house!!) and that his views could be represented as the views of the club, it’s too late in life for it to worry me either in or out but of course worry about all aspects of like for my children and grandchildren, one of my kids was a firm remainer, and one was a couldn’t give a Donald duck, they never argued/debated about it, although not voting I was always aligned to exit, but when the chips were down, and can remember this as if it were yesterday, stopped outside the school and said to the wife, f**k it and we went shopping to Lidl instead which was another 400 yards or so down the road, I like all the arguing about it and I like to troll a bit, hate SI units, clearly remember getting decimal coins in my change on the morning of metrification, the line of work that I do, the EU adds next to nothing but bureaucracy, I’m sure it adds value to many occupations/professions, walking into a factory in 1978 was a bit of an eye opener and a dangerous environment for a 17/18 year old, this has changed for the better under EU legislation, in March I will be out of the country on the day!!, not the EU, but using my new EU passport, I’m just a placid softy really but do dislike the bully boy antics of the mob on here, don’t know personally, but like and admire the manner in which WB calmly deals with the key board mob, having spent over 40 years at varying intervals going away watching the City and the antics that sometimes accompany the trips, I often wonder when did the fan base join the god squad to trash their own on social media because they decided no instead of yes, the lessons from Trump and Brexit need to be learned quickly, and that is, call your own trash and thick, they will have the final say in a place where the bully cannot be heard, if this lesson isn’t taken on board, the likes of Trump and the Tories will dominate the future, anyway I am still of the opinion by hook or by crook the UK will remain in the EU and that will be fine and dandy for me, there will always be winners and losers, and will also provide the opportunity to troll the brexiters (the serious ones) in old money, basically just a shit stirrer who plays on both sides of the net. Final word!!, when I get home from work usually 18.00/18.30 ish always sit down with the wife to have tea and have the BBC news on to catch up with events, tonight they were live in the commons with the debate of no confidence in Treason May, I would gladly kick Gove over the barrier of the seven bridge but IMO, he absolutely trounced his opposition and I thought he was making his play for their leadership, Labour has to sort it out to be a credible opposition, Corbyn was a rabbit in the headlights who’s lack of leadership exposed, he has the bias of press also to contend with, the party love in with him has got to give, I think that Labour will be on the opposition benches until he is replaced. Even after this total f**k up of Brexit lasting circa two years, I still see the Tories winning a future election, he will not be trusted by the electorate, the press will ensure it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie
Yes pretty close to the markQuote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman