Daily Mail's Martin Samuel does a hatchet job on City.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

It is an inconsistency isn't it. On the one hand, the attitude appears to be "well, we all know what agents are like and it's inevitable that things like this are going to happen" and, on the other, he goes through the club's dealings with a fine toothcomb to the extent that he is talking about three players, who use a company which has Neil Warnock's son on their payroll, that signed for us years before his father became our manager - three players who, to the best of my knowledge, had never played for a club managed by Warnock before he came here. I can see a conflict of interest now that Neil Warnock is our manager, but how does that exist in the period 2012 to 2014 when Morrison, Noone and Healey signed for Cardiff?

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Exactly, he clearly has an agenda. I think we should just pay Nantes the first instalment, then go after insurance for whoever arranged that flight.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

It is an inconsistency isn't it. On the one hand, the attitude appears to be "well, we all know what agents are like and it's inevitable that things like this are going to happen" and, on the other, he goes through the club's dealings with a fine toothcomb to the extent that he is talking about three players, who use a company which has Neil Warnock's son on their payroll, that signed for us years before his father became our manager - three players who, to the best of my knowledge, had never played for a club managed by Warnock before he came here. I can see a conflict of interest now that Neil Warnock is our manager, but how does that exist in the period 2012 to 2014 when Morrison, Noone and Healey signed for Cardiff?

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Samuel hates Warnock. He raises some good points but there's too much bile and rubbish that dilutes his argument. There are basic errors and extremely tenuous links that just makes it a smear article, rather than having any real merit.

As you say, his attitude of "this is how football works" and then Cardiff use McKay and are therefore bad is just mad. As I've said before, I'd be happy if the McKays had nothing to do with us ever again but if we want to sign players from France that might be difficult, although I can't see it happening in the short term!

Apart from stating at the very outset that a number of things will unravel in due course I have refrained from commenting on this case so far. However, it's not without a certain irony that signing an expensive, marquee centre forward to keep us in the Premier League has again resulted in opening a can of worms regarding agents and all the other parties involved in such transfers. No doubts such activities are ubiquitous in the world of football but they seem to have been particularly highlighted by the two aforementioned events at our club.

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Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa

Bamba was released by Leeds. Over a month later we appointed Warnock. It's utter bollocks what Samuel has written regarding that but he's trying to drag as many people into this as he can.

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Bamba asked to be released from a lucrative contact at Leeds with apparently nowhere else to go. Or perhaps someone had a word in his ear and told him he'd get himself a lovely signing on fee if he made himself a freebie.

Not even sure if there is anything wrong with that.

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Originally Posted by EastbourneBlue

Bamba left Leeds on September 1 2016 citing personal reasons (which as far as I know were never disclosed).

One month and four days later Warnock arrives at CCFC. Think it’s fair to say the writing was on the wall for Trollope before that.

Bamba’s agent - big Willie McKay.

Have other clubs got a relationship with McKay? Undoubtedly - but we’re the ones who were lumbered with his sons (signed under Warnock) so it’s safe to assume our/Warnock’s relationship with McKay is closer than others.

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Why are you posting drivel like this. Talk about conspiracy theories !. Over the last two years it has been stated publicly by Bamba and NW, on a number of occasions, that they knew each other well previously and that when Bamba left Leeds (and NW was out of a job at the time) they spoke and that NW told Bamba to hold fire on signing for anyone because it was very likely that he (NW) would be back employed shortly and that the first thing he would do is bring Bamba on board. Bamba agreed to this because of his respect and like for NW. He had offers from other clubs but turned them down because he knew that NW was a man of his word and wanted to work with him again. The rest is history. Nothing to do with Willie Mckay or any other agent.

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Originally Posted by EastbourneBlue

Bamba asked to be released from a lucrative contact at Leeds with apparently nowhere else to go. Or perhaps someone had a word in his ear and told him he'd get himself a lovely signing on fee if he made himself a freebie.

Not even sure if there is anything wrong with that.

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He had nowhere else to go if he'd stayed at Leeds, the transfer window had shut the day before. I've already put up a link where Monk explains how it was his call that Bamba left (https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co....monk-1-8114966). Feel free to put up some links of your own that contradict it.

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Originally Posted by EastbourneBlue

Bamba asked to be released from a lucrative contact at Leeds with apparently nowhere else to go. Or perhaps someone had a word in his ear and told him he'd get himself a lovely signing on fee if he made himself a freebie.

Not even sure if there is anything wrong with that.

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Other people have put articles on this, and as someone who lives in Leeds, their fans weren't exactly sorry to see him go. There is nothing dodgy going on here, Leeds didn't want him. He was out of the side and on decent money, so they paid him up. Warnock told him to wait until he had a job but that's hardly immoral. Samuel has put 2 and 2 together and came up with 5.

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Originally Posted by Vindec

If this was about any other club you might think the article is well written and researched.

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I doubt that very much. For one thing I wouldn't have even opened the link had it been about another club.

Whether it is researched and well written or not isn't the point as far as I'm concerned.
Did/do any of us doubt that that football isn't broken and there is mass corruption happening 24/7?

As has been said previously, it seems that this piece is personal, Samuel is getting after Warnock and throw in the fact it is Cardiff City... bonus time.

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Originally Posted by MacAdder

I doubt that very much. For one thing I wouldn't have even opened the link had it been about another club.

Whether it is researched and well written or not isn't the point as far as I'm concerned.
Did/do any of us doubt that that football isn't broken and there is mass corruption happening 24/7?

As has been said previously, it seems that this piece is personal, Samuel is getting after Warnock and throw in the fact it is Cardiff City... bonus time.

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Samuel is now a shock jock and has been for some time.

https://danieldcollins.wordpress.com...jack-grealish/

TOBW, you said: "A major flaw in Samuel's argument for me is the way he claims that none of this would be happening if Emiliano Sala were still alive. He brings attention to the Vincent Tan/ Malky Mackay/Iain Moody situation while making particular reference to the Andreas Cornelius transfer, but doesn't our owner's use of the legal system in that case show that there is at least the possibility that City would be acting in exactly the same way if Emiliano was still with us?"

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I might be), but hadn't Cornelius been at the club for a number of months and been proving a disappointment before Tan began questioning his transfer? Also, wasn't his 'legal investigation' into Mackay and Moody far more wide-ranging than the Cornelius transfer alone?

Just read the article and gave up 3/4 of the way through.

Anybody who has posted on this message board for the last 5 years could have written that article - in fact I’d bet that one of his researchers did exactly that and ghost wrote the entire article for him.

He doesn’t provide any answers - just pokes and asks a bunch of questions that to my mind are just shit stirring in their nature. Lazy horrible journalism trying to dress itself up as investigative.

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Originally Posted by simonp_ccfc

I thought so too when reading that but it's not true. Leeds fans agreed with the club for letting him go and agreed that it was time he found another club. Nothing under handed here.

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I have a mate who is a Leeds season ticket holder , he told me at the time when we signed Bamba , he had literally stopped playing due to a very big falling out with club , owner and manager , he was released as his wages were high , its was well known at the time .

He also warned me he'd be a genius for about a few months and then lose interest , I think he knew they had lost a tidy player , and we had gained one , like all Leeds fans , he lives in denial.

Wouldn’t waste my time even clicking on a link in his name

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

TOBW, you said: "A major flaw in Samuel's argument for me is the way he claims that none of this would be happening if Emiliano Sala were still alive. He brings attention to the Vincent Tan/ Malky Mackay/Iain Moody situation while making particular reference to the Andreas Cornelius transfer, but doesn't our owner's use of the legal system in that case show that there is at least the possibility that City would be acting in exactly the same way if Emiliano was still with us?"

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I might be), but hadn't Cornelius been at the club for a number of months and been proving a disappointment before Tan began questioning his transfer? Also, wasn't his 'legal investigation' into Mackay and Moody far more wide-ranging than the Cornelius transfer alone?

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Not sure about cornelius specifically but after we beat man city Vincent tan was very vocal to the media after the game complaining we paid more than we should have for gary medel. He was also complaining about agents etc then......

We started the season well and Gary medel looked worth whatever we paid for him- and more, but our results and performances didnt stop tan questioning our transfers then.

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Originally Posted by Lawnmower

Wouldn’t waste my time even clicking on a link in his name

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Basically we signed healey noone and morrison because of Neil warnocks son.

(No the fact warnock became our manager about 5 years after these signings is not relevant)

Bamba was released by leeds to sign for cardiff and it was engineered by willie mckay.

(Warnock becoming our manager over a month after bamba leaving leeds is not relevant)

Football agents can be quite dodgy and football transfers can be quite complicated.

I think thats pretty much it?

Oh and hes been on google to 'research' :hehe: that we signed the mckay twins 13 months ago. Something he wasnt interested in at the time and something that has been discussed at length on this mboard so hardly cutting edge journalism.

Only other thing i cant quite understand is why cardiff are getting so much stick for speaking to the agent hired by nantes to sell sala (mckay).

Why are cardiff the bad guys in that and not nantes who it seems actually hired him? In that situation if cardiff did want sala then what were we supposed to do? Refuse the transfer because we didn't like the agent nantes chose?

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Samuel also wrote a piece on last season's FA Cup match with Man City which had the subtitle "Guardiola masterclass gives Cardiff cloggers the boot".

it's a powerful piece by Samuel and I believe he makes a number of valid points, but he is hardly an impartial bystander in all of this and I find it hard to avoid the feeling that the article might have read differently if Neil Warnock was not our manager.

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Before I read it, I suppose it needs to be said that we would be playing a different style of football if Warnock wasn't our manager.

Maybe I'm being thick here, but can someone tell me the significance of Martin mentioning the Noone, Morrison and Healy deals? All of these were signed many years before Warnock joined the club. Yeah they used the same company but so what, is that breaching any rules?

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Originally Posted by Llandaff Blue

Maybe I'm being thick here, but can someone tell me the significance of Martin mentioning the Noone, Morrison and Healy deals? All of these were signed many years before Warnock joined the club. Yeah they used the same company but so what, is that breaching any rules?

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There is no significance. He's exposing the flaws in his own argument.

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Originally Posted by Llandaff Blue

Maybe I'm being thick here, but can someone tell me the significance of Martin mentioning the Noone, Morrison and Healy deals? All of these were signed many years before Warnock joined the club. Yeah they used the same company but so what, is that breaching any rules?

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Its not you being thick...... This is a ridiculously poor article.

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Originally Posted by Father Dougal

Basically we signed healey noone and morrison because of Neil warnocks son.

(No the fact warnock became our manager about 5 years after these signings is not relevant)

Bamba was released by leeds to sign for cardiff and it was engineered by willie mckay.

(Warnock becoming our manager over a month after bamba leaving leeds is not relevant)

Football agents can be quite dodgy and football transfers can be quite complicated.

I think thats pretty much it?

Oh and hes been on google to 'research' :hehe: that we signed the mckay twins 13 months ago. Something he wasnt interested in at the time and something that has been discussed at length on this mboard so hardly cutting edge journalism.

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That was exactly my earlier point. There is not one thing in that article that I could see (I didn’t read it all) that hadn’t been discussed on here in the last few weeks. My 11 year old nephew could have pulled it together as an English assignment and he’d only have had to put CCMB as his source. There have been pages of debate on here about the stuff he now claims as his own. Blokes a joke. If he’d posted it on here and entered into a debate he’d have got destroyed by some of the more articulate members on here (it’s ok TLG I don’t mean you 😂)

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Originally Posted by Divine Wright

It’s not just who arranged it, I feel that the club should be doing more to ensure the welfare of their staff, especially when it involves a player doing things connected to their work i.e relocating because of a job. Ken Choo said that they didn’t want to control the player, or wanted to give him his feedom, or something to that effect. I can understand that, but it doesn’t mean that the club can’t ask to be informed about the details of the arrangements beforehand. It just seems like an obvious professional standard.

The bellend who stuck him on a light aircraft, in winter, at night, with an underqualified pilot will obviously have questions to answer too.

It was a tragic accident , but the risks can be minimised.

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When I moved from one employer to another, no one offered me a relocation fee or offered to pay for my transport to my new work place. How I travel in my own time is also a choice for me and not my employer, and I don't have to tell them how I'm doing it either.

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Originally Posted by Harry Monk

When I moved from one employer to another, no one offered me a relocation fee or offered to pay for my transport to my new work place. How I travel in my own time is also a choice for me and not my employer, and I don't have to tell them how I'm doing it either.

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If you're a highly skilled worker going to another country, the employer will fairly certainly pay your relocation fee and organise transport.

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Originally Posted by Harry Monk

When I moved from one employer to another, no one offered me a relocation fee or offered to pay for my transport to my new work place. How I travel in my own time is also a choice for me and not my employer, and I don't have to tell them how I'm doing it either.

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Footballers are different as everything is skewed in their favour. However, it is preposterous of anyone to think a football club should examine the details of a plane and the qualifications of a pilot prior to any one of them catching a flight. Who in a football club is qualified to tell whether a pilot has specific ratings to allow night flying or is commercially qualified? Perhaps people expect them to check whether the taxi they catch to the airport has an MOT and the driver has a driving licence. It's absolute nonsense. The travel arrangements were taken out of the club's hands when Sala chose to take up McKay's offer of an alternative to the commercial arrangements texted to the player by the club.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...Sala-died.html

First thing I'd say about the article is that it is effective and hits the target often, he asks pertinent questions regarding some of City's dealings in the past and the charge that it is all about the money with the club is a hard one to argue against.

However, a major flaw in Samuel's argument for me is the way he claims that none of this would be happening if Emiliano Sala were still alive. He brings attention to the Vincent Tan/ Malky Mackay/Iain Moody situation while making particular reference to the Andreas Cornelius transfer, but doesn't our owner's use of the legal system in that case show that there is at least the possibility that City would be acting in exactly the same way if Emiliano was still with us? My own view is that City's off field management were reactive, rather than proactive, when it came to the Cornelius transfer and the same may be true about Sala as well, but I think Samuel is misjudging Vincent Tan when it comes to when he would turn to litigation.

While reading the article, I also had a vague memory of Neil Warnock mentioning Martin Samuel, and not in a complimentary way, by name in one of his press conference as City manager, so I did some checking and I think it's fair to say that there is a bit of history between the two men;-

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...lace-boss.html

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/w...el-b6rqmbt5zk5

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...ek-433835.html

http://archive.onetouchfootball.com/...1;t=010196;p=3

Samuel also wrote a piece on last season's FA Cup match with Man City which had the subtitle "Guardiola masterclass gives Cardiff cloggers the boot".

it's a powerful piece by Samuel and I believe he makes a number of valid points, but he is hardly an impartial bystander in all of this and I find it hard to avoid the feeling that the article might have read differently if Neil Warnock was not our manager.

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His flaw is his claim that none of this would be happening if Sala was alive and scoring goals.
Your flaw is that you think Tan would be pursuing this if Sala was alive and scoring goals.

Football tribalism at it's typical worst. No wonder you're still a hobby journalist with objectivism as shite as that.

Let's just look at some facts.

Cardiff City, and their hard nosed, successful businessman owner, were duped into paying an over inflated fee for a player based on fake agent reports of interest from a number of clubs. Again!

Instead of Cardiff picking up the phone and asking Everton/Palace "Hey, are you interested in Sala", the club took the agent at his word, and paid the inflated price to get their man.

The only reason that Sala is dead, and the only reason that a sister has lost her brother, and that a father/mother has lost their son, is because he was on a flight to his new club. A club that has, since, claimed he wasn't registered properly. With that loophole seemingly closed, his new club have withheld payment to Nantes despite his new club claiming they would be honourable. His new club have also chased up the aforementioned clubs to see if there was really a genuine interest. A bit ****ing late innit?

Far from exposing the murky world of football agents, as they claimed they were going to do after Mackay/Moody. Instead, they employed Ole Gunnar Solskjaer, and signed a number of players that, by some amazing coincidence, happened to have the same agent that he had. What are the chances?

Well, actually quite slim, because Cardiff then went with Warnock, whose son actually works for one of these agencies.

Remind me again, who is Tomlin's agent? And how many minutes did he play before he started bending over double gasping for air. I thought the Cardiff City transfer committee was supposed to be robust, stringent, analytical.

Then, in yet another amazing quirk of fate, the agent of the young man who died on his way to his new club that wasn't even registered for his new club, and who cost £15m but was actually overvalued by his new club, that player's agent has a son who..... wait for it.... WAS ON CARDIFF CITY'S ****ING BOOKS. So was his twin brother! You cannot make it up, can you?

And, we have so-called sensible people like you defending the club in the face of all this. And, I'll tell you something else - if this happened to Swansea, or Man U, or Watford - your opinion would be the exact opposite.

The journalist who, I have to say, is just as objective as you are, succeeds in hitting a few more nails on the head than you have. He is right, the FA should be brought in to investigate it. Why haven't they been? Tan was very quick to involve the FA and SFA when the time was right (or rather ripe) for Mackay. Why isn't he involving them now?

Cardiff are trying to avoid a £15m cost, they look desperate with their actions.
1) Not registered with PL
2) Agent inflated the transfer fee (club could have always said "NO")
3) Nantes are liable
4) The agent is liable

These are the 4 avenues, off the top of my head, that the club have gone down in a desperate effort to claw back the money. It is now obvious that the player wasn't insured at the time of the accident, a few sports insurers sepculated that may be the case at the time. Cardiff are panicking, and all morality has gone out the window. Again. Like many other times under Vincent Tan.

And you hypocritical pricks are all defending the club as if the retrieval of the money will make the slightest bit of difference. Like crabs caught in a bucket.

Whether there is personal history or not, the journalist is hitting a few key notes.

Your defence is now for Warnock, the man you used to chastise and call Colin Wanker but who, because he now manages your ****ed up club, is now Mr Honourable. Do me a favour! Had Warnock been managing another club and it happened there, you would definitely have been taking the journalist's side. Hypocrit.

Sounds like Bob may have upset you in another life 😂😂😂. That’s quite the rant😂

That’s jirga, he can’t stay hidden for too long. An absolute pathetic specimen, he deserves nothing but sympathy.

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Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanton

Sounds like Bob may have upset you in another life ������. That’s quite the rant��

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Think he blames me for his latest ban.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Think he blames me for his latest ban.

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He’s a sad act I wouldn’t waste your time on him.

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Originally Posted by JennyWren

His flaw is his claim that none of this would be happening if Sala was alive and scoring goals.
Your flaw is that you think Tan would be pursuing this if Sala was alive and scoring goals.

Football tribalism at it's typical worst. No wonder you're still a hobby journalist with objectivism as shite as that.

Let's just look at some facts.

Cardiff City, and their hard nosed, successful businessman owner, were duped into paying an over inflated fee for a player based on fake agent reports of interest from a number of clubs. Again!

Instead of Cardiff picking up the phone and asking Everton/Palace "Hey, are you interested in Sala", the club took the agent at his word, and paid the inflated price to get their man.

The only reason that Sala is dead, and the only reason that a sister has lost her brother, and that a father/mother has lost their son, is because he was on a flight to his new club. A club that has, since, claimed he wasn't registered properly. With that loophole seemingly closed, his new club have withheld payment to Nantes despite his new club claiming they would be honourable. His new club have also chased up the aforementioned clubs to see if there was really a genuine interest. A bit ****ing late innit?

Far from exposing the murky world of football agents, as they claimed they were going to do after Mackay/Moody. Instead, they employed Ole Gunnar Solskjaer, and signed a number of players that, by some amazing coincidence, happened to have the same agent that he had. What are the chances?

Well, actually quite slim, because Cardiff then went with Warnock, whose son actually works for one of these agencies.

Remind me again, who is Tomlin's agent? And how many minutes did he play before he started bending over double gasping for air. I thought the Cardiff City transfer committee was supposed to be robust, stringent, analytical.

Then, in yet another amazing quirk of fate, the agent of the young man who died on his way to his new club that wasn't even registered for his new club, and who cost £15m but was actually overvalued by his new club, that player's agent has a son who..... wait for it.... WAS ON CARDIFF CITY'S ****ING BOOKS. So was his twin brother! You cannot make it up, can you?

And, we have so-called sensible people like you defending the club in the face of all this. And, I'll tell you something else - if this happened to Swansea, or Man U, or Watford - your opinion would be the exact opposite.

The journalist who, I have to say, is just as objective as you are, succeeds in hitting a few more nails on the head than you have. He is right, the FA should be brought in to investigate it. Why haven't they been? Tan was very quick to involve the FA and SFA when the time was right (or rather ripe) for Mackay. Why isn't he involving them now?

Cardiff are trying to avoid a £15m cost, they look desperate with their actions.
1) Not registered with PL
2) Agent inflated the transfer fee (club could have always said "NO")
3) Nantes are liable
4) The agent is liable

These are the 4 avenues, off the top of my head, that the club have gone down in a desperate effort to claw back the money. It is now obvious that the player wasn't insured at the time of the accident, a few sports insurers sepculated that may be the case at the time. Cardiff are panicking, and all morality has gone out the window. Again. Like many other times under Vincent Tan.

And you hypocritical pricks are all defending the club as if the retrieval of the money will make the slightest bit of difference. Like crabs caught in a bucket.

Whether there is personal history or not, the journalist is hitting a few key notes.

Your defence is now for Warnock, the man you used to chastise and call Colin Wanker but who, because he now manages your ****ed up club, is now Mr Honourable. Do me a favour! Had Warnock been managing another club and it happened there, you would definitely have been taking the journalist's side. Hypocrit.

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You OK hun :hehe:

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Originally Posted by JennyWren

His flaw is his claim that none of this would be happening if Sala was alive and scoring goals.
Your flaw is that you think Tan would be pursuing this if Sala was alive and scoring goals.

Football tribalism at it's typical worst. No wonder you're still a hobby journalist with objectivism as shite as that.

Let's just look at some facts.

Cardiff City, and their hard nosed, successful businessman owner, were duped into paying an over inflated fee for a player based on fake agent reports of interest from a number of clubs. Again!

Instead of Cardiff picking up the phone and asking Everton/Palace "Hey, are you interested in Sala", the club took the agent at his word, and paid the inflated price to get their man.

The only reason that Sala is dead, and the only reason that a sister has lost her brother, and that a father/mother has lost their son, is because he was on a flight to his new club. A club that has, since, claimed he wasn't registered properly. With that loophole seemingly closed, his new club have withheld payment to Nantes despite his new club claiming they would be honourable. His new club have also chased up the aforementioned clubs to see if there was really a genuine interest. A bit ****ing late innit?

Far from exposing the murky world of football agents, as they claimed they were going to do after Mackay/Moody. Instead, they employed Ole Gunnar Solskjaer, and signed a number of players that, by some amazing coincidence, happened to have the same agent that he had. What are the chances?

Well, actually quite slim, because Cardiff then went with Warnock, whose son actually works for one of these agencies.

Remind me again, who is Tomlin's agent? And how many minutes did he play before he started bending over double gasping for air. I thought the Cardiff City transfer committee was supposed to be robust, stringent, analytical.

Then, in yet another amazing quirk of fate, the agent of the young man who died on his way to his new club that wasn't even registered for his new club, and who cost £15m but was actually overvalued by his new club, that player's agent has a son who..... wait for it.... WAS ON CARDIFF CITY'S ****ING BOOKS. So was his twin brother! You cannot make it up, can you?

And, we have so-called sensible people like you defending the club in the face of all this. And, I'll tell you something else - if this happened to Swansea, or Man U, or Watford - your opinion would be the exact opposite.

The journalist who, I have to say, is just as objective as you are, succeeds in hitting a few more nails on the head than you have. He is right, the FA should be brought in to investigate it. Why haven't they been? Tan was very quick to involve the FA and SFA when the time was right (or rather ripe) for Mackay. Why isn't he involving them now?

Cardiff are trying to avoid a £15m cost, they look desperate with their actions.
1) Not registered with PL
2) Agent inflated the transfer fee (club could have always said "NO")
3) Nantes are liable
4) The agent is liable

These are the 4 avenues, off the top of my head, that the club have gone down in a desperate effort to claw back the money. It is now obvious that the player wasn't insured at the time of the accident, a few sports insurers sepculated that may be the case at the time. Cardiff are panicking, and all morality has gone out the window. Again. Like many other times under Vincent Tan.

And you hypocritical pricks are all defending the club as if the retrieval of the money will make the slightest bit of difference. Like crabs caught in a bucket.

Whether there is personal history or not, the journalist is hitting a few key notes.

Your defence is now for Warnock, the man you used to chastise and call Colin Wanker but who, because he now manages your ****ed up club, is now Mr Honourable. Do me a favour! Had Warnock been managing another club and it happened there, you would definitely have been taking the journalist's side. Hypocrit.

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Right, having got all that off your chest, let's see what I actually said in that post you replied to. I thought I made it clear that Martin Samuel made some valid points and that I found it hard to argue against the motivation for recent stories from the club's perspective regarding the payment of the Sala fee being money. However, in essence, I only wanted to make two points;-

1. My belief that Vincent Tan could well have acted in a similar fashion to the way he did against Malky Mackay and Iain Moody if Emiliano Sala was alive and playing for us now.
2. To show that Neil Warnock and Martin Samuel have a history which would make it hard for either man to be objective about the other.

That word objective seems to be an important one to you based on the way you use it in your message and I plead guilty to a lack of objectivity when it comes to my football club. For example, I don't like the football Neil Warnock teams play, but I can cope with it when we win because I celebrate any City victory under Warnock in exactly the same way I did under any other manager - my footballing preferences tend to go out of the window when we win I'm afraid.

However, I like to think that I try to retain some objectivity, hence my concession that Martin Samuel's article is generally "effective" and that he "hits the target often".

You talk as if I have been backing Neil Warnock all of the way over the past few weeks when my belief is that I have, purposely, not said much one way or another about him - I posted links which show that Martin Samuel has "previous" when it comes to Neil Warnock, but there are examples out there of it happening the other way around, so, as I mentioned earlier, we're talking about two men who are unlikely to be objective about one and other.

I'm reluctant to comment much on the rest of what you say except to mention that over a period of years I think I have shown that I favour the cock up theory over the conspiracy one when it comes to the time covered by Vincent Tan's ownership of the club.

My unwillingness to say any more than that for now is down to me trying to show some objectivity by waiting until the publication of the AAIB's interim report, which I believe was due out tomorrow but has now been postponed for a week.

I've given you what I think is a civil reply, but cannot help but mention that you left objectivity behind years ago when it comes to Cardiff City didn't you. I find it truly sad that some seven years after the rebrand was announced you still cannot let go can you.

I'm going to stick you on ignore now and won't be replying to any of your messages again.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

TOBW, you said: "A major flaw in Samuel's argument for me is the way he claims that none of this would be happening if Emiliano Sala were still alive. He brings attention to the Vincent Tan/ Malky Mackay/Iain Moody situation while making particular reference to the Andreas Cornelius transfer, but doesn't our owner's use of the legal system in that case show that there is at least the possibility that City would be acting in exactly the same way if Emiliano was still with us?"

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I might be), but hadn't Cornelius been at the club for a number of months and been proving a disappointment before Tan began questioning his transfer? Also, wasn't his 'legal investigation' into Mackay and Moody far more wide-ranging than the Cornelius transfer alone?

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I can't say for certain, but I believe the 13/14 season was about six weeks/two months old when Vincent Tan first mentioned his dissatisfaction with the Cornelius transfer - I've not been able to find anything to confirm that though.

As for your second question, yes you are right.

Let's face it, for 7/8 seasons the club has been pretty useless when trying to get the players they want, especially when it's an urgent/marque signing. Cornelius, Madine, and possibly Sala. All bought for well over the odds, with not a whiff of competition from other clubs in sight. No doubt Madine's agent was saying that there were loads of other clubs bidding for him as the window closed but 'lucky for Cardiff he wants to come to you and you can have him for £6m'. This from a club that is absolutely broke and couldn't pay the players wages !!! And Nantes ? Raided yesterday by the French equivalent of the Inland Revenue !!

And the McKay boys joining the City ?? Nothing illegal or wrong, but for a club with sustained Premier league ambitions it hardly sends out the right message to other players when favours like that are handed out as if it were a Cardiff and District under 11's.

Sala would almost certainly have been insured from the moment he became a City player. [if he wasn't would be gross negligence - you don't buy a house and then take out insurance]. Were he to have been killed crossing the A48 then I have no doubt there would have been every likelyhood of City recovering most if not all of the fee. But with the emails from McKay snr. coming to light, the 'value' of City's loss may be a lot less than £15m. If a spiv flogged me a watch for £10k but was worth only £5k, then I'll only get £5k from the insurer - it's up to be to get the other £5k from McKay - sorry, the spiv.

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

Let's face it, for 7/8 seasons the club has been pretty useless when trying to get the players they want, especially when it's an urgent/marque signing. Cornelius, Madine, and possibly Sala. All bought for well over the odds, with not a whiff of competition from other clubs in sight. No doubt Madine's agent was saying that there were loads of other clubs bidding for him as the window closed but 'lucky for Cardiff he wants to come to you and you can have him for £6m'. This from a club that is absolutely broke and couldn't pay the players wages !!! And Nantes ? Raided yesterday by the French equivalent of the Inland Revenue !!

And the McKay boys joining the City ?? Nothing illegal or wrong, but for a club with sustained Premier league ambitions it hardly sends out the right message to other players when favours like that are handed out as if it were a Cardiff and District under 11's.

Sala would almost certainly have been insured from the moment he became a City player. [if he wasn't would be gross negligence - you don't buy a house and then take out insurance]. Were he to have been killed crossing the A48 then I have no doubt there would have been every likelyhood of City recovering most if not all of the fee. But with the emails from McKay snr. coming to light, the 'value' of City's loss may be a lot less than £15m. If a spiv flogged me a watch for £10k but was worth only £5k, then I'll only get £5k from the insurer - it's up to be to get the other £5k from McKay - sorry, the spiv.

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Yeah so useless we got a group of players that got us promoted.
While below us in the Championship there are squads who have cost much more.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I can't say for certain, but I believe the 13/14 season was about six weeks/two months old when Vincent Tan first mentioned his dissatisfaction with the Cornelius transfer - I've not been able to find anything to confirm that though.

As for your second question, yes you are right.

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My view is that Tan (and his Chairman) wouldn't have been saying or doing anything negative in relation to the Sala fee or the payments to Nantes unless the player had proved a flop. I honestly don't think he'd have been kicking up a fuss right now, but considering past history he may well have done so at the end of the season had the team been relegated and Sala failed to make a significant impact.

I don't believe the Mackay/Moody/Cornelius situation is directly comparable as the relationship between the owner and the manager had clearly soured significantly in that case before Tan started kicking up a fuss. I don't think the same is true with Warnock. Not yet, anyway.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Right, having got all that off your chest, let's see what I actually said in that post you replied to. I thought I made it clear that Martin Samuel made some valid points and that I found it hard to argue against the motivation for recent stories from the club's perspective regarding the payment of the Sala fee being money. However, in essence, I only wanted to make two points;-

1. My belief that Vincent Tan could well have acted in a similar fashion to the way he did against Malky Mackay and Iain Moody if Emiliano Sala was alive and playing for us now.
2. To show that Neil Warnock and Martin Samuel have a history which would make it hard for either man to be objective about the other.

That word objective seems to be an important one to you based on the way you use it in your message and I plead guilty to a lack of objectivity when it comes to my football club. For example, I don't like the football Neil Warnock teams play, but I can cope with it when we win because I celebrate any City victory under Warnock in exactly the same way I did under any other manager - my footballing preferences tend to go out of the window when we win I'm afraid.

However, I like to think that I try to retain some objectivity, hence my concession that Martin Samuel's article is generally "effective" and that he "hits the target often".

You talk as if I have been backing Neil Warnock all of the way over the past few weeks when my belief is that I have, purposely, not said much one way or another about him - I posted links which show that Martin Samuel has "previous" when it comes to Neil Warnock, but there are examples out there of it happening the other way around, so, as I mentioned earlier, we're talking about two men who are unlikely to be objective about one and other.

I'm reluctant to comment much on the rest of what you say except to mention that over a period of years I think I have shown that I favour the cock up theory over the conspiracy one when it comes to the time covered by Vincent Tan's ownership of the club.

My unwillingness to say any more than that for now is down to me trying to show some objectivity by waiting until the publication of the AAIB's interim report, which I believe was due out tomorrow but has now been postponed for a week.

I've given you what I think is a civil reply, but cannot help but mention that you left objectivity behind years ago when it comes to Cardiff City didn't you. I find it truly sad that some seven years after the rebrand was announced you still cannot let go can you.

I'm going to stick you on ignore now and won't be replying to any of your messages again.

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:facepalm:

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Think he blames me for his latest ban.

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Oh, are you referring to the time you made a public comment on me that I replied to in private, before you then replied again in public - and then Mike banned me for replying to you? Yeah, you definitely have the moral highground on that one :facepalm:

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Originally Posted by JennyWren

Oh, are you referring to the time you made a public comment on me that I replied to in private, before you then replied again in public - and then Mike banned me for replying to you? Yeah, you definitely have the moral highground on that one :facepalm:

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This guy needs to be banned for his own good.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

This guy needs to be banned for his own good.

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He has a go at someone like Bob and his posts. While he has resurfaced again this time pretending to be a Cardiff fan starting a sh!t stirring thread demanding the removal of our manager amongst other garbage.

Moral highground FFS.

Multis , sh!t stirring when pretending to be a fan. Not rocket science the bans. Needs removing permanently.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by not telling

Cardiff may have insurance cover for Sala, in which case the insurers would only pay out anything Cardiff are obliged to pay. The directors of the club have a fiduciary duty to act in the best interests of the club. If I were a director of the club, I would want to know absolutely everything about the transfer, who gets what, whether there is an obligation to pay and whether any party has the opportunity to mitigate their losses, so I know exactly what I am obliged to pay when I ask the insurers to cough up.

So yes, everything changes as a result of the death of Sala.

Secondly, the Crystal Palace thing. Given that Leeds have just been fined for spying, if Cardiff thought something like that was going on, they have every right to kick up.

Hatchet job to sell that crappy rag.

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:thumbup: