Same question for you....Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Friday's Ghost
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Same question for you....Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Friday's Ghost
I'm not, I'm saying that people shouldn't label remainers bad losers, when the leavers would have done exactly the same thing (and have been doing so since 1973).Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Friday's Ghost
Either way, I don't think JRM's original point is actually a bad idea and the blame lies at the door of May and Cameron, who couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery and will go down in history as the worst PMs we've ever had.
We debated why we wanted or didn't want Brexit two years ago. Now the issue is much bigger: whether parliament ignores the electorate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue
I voted to leave but even if I hadn't I would be as angry about parliament's refusal to do what the electorate told them to do. If they didn't want us to decide they shouldn't have voted in favour of a referendum by a majority of 500. When they did, they ceded their authority to us. But because the result didn't go the way they expected they are reneging on their promise. You may feel that is of secondary importance to whether we stay in the EU or not. I don't. I know Remainers have a tendency to sneer at ideas such as sovereignty and democracy but I think they are moire important than EU membership.
Theresa May's deal has been heavily defeated twice in about six weeks, but her attitude appears to be to bludgeon that electorate into accepting it and she won't stop having votes on it until they do - surely that's more a case of democracy being reinvented than wanting to have another vote on a subject that was put to the people of this country nearly three years ago?Quote:
Originally Posted by lincoln blue
What does/did leaving mean to you? The problem with the ref in 2016 was it meant anything anyone wanted it to. "Easiest trade deal ever", Norway, Switzerland etc. It's incredibly poorly worded, solely Cameron's fault but I think a lot of people, myself included, are upset because nobody knew what Brexit was, and I'm tired of people saying they knew what they voted for, cos let's be honest, nobody had a clue. Also, in the latest poll, remain is 63% vs her deal at 37%, so I think we can safely say, people didn't vote for this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Friday's Ghost
To RFG:
But the last few days have shown how much sovereignty and democracy we actually have in this country. Nothing will change after we leave in that respect.
“Remainers” aren’t anti democracy, the bloody campaign has been proven to be illegal and full of lies, how is that democracy.
I’m asking for one benefit come on. Why did you vote leave?
Can someone please explain this logic to me?Quote:
Originally Posted by lincoln blue
Why is anyone referring it to sides like a sports team? Shouldn’t we want what’s best for the country?
How would another vote be I democratic?
Was the first vote which has been shown to have multiple illegal campaigns democratic in your eyes?
The mess was created by our MP's and the EU on purpose, it's got nothing to do with the electorate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue
I knew it would be a conspiracy. What do you mean on purpose?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
Again it’s not it’s just our government are incompetent and stupid. May’s deal was dead before it even started.
The EU have been negotiating what’s best for them, obviously that’s on purpose
What benefits were you expecting to come out of this that have been “purposely” missed.
So what you’re basically saying is “16 million people are thick and led like sheep”Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue
Bet you’re one of those in the playground who on losing the toss of a coin, says “best of three” :hehe::hehe:
I wasn't referring to her deal which may be shite, but the people who are trying yo stop brexit altogether even thought they voted in parliament to trigger article 50 in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Look, if you believe my decision to vote leave was irrational and ill-informed, which you probably do, that's fine. As I said, the pros and cons of Brexit are of secondary importance to me.
The more important issue is whether parliament is allowed to ignore the voice of the electorate. I think the more important issue for you and many others is whether we stay in the EU. I think you're wrong.
Where have I said that? I completely understand why people voted leave, but those reasons are unachievedable.Quote:
Originally Posted by BLUETIT
I’m the sort of person who doesn’t want the poor in this country to get poorer. I always vote on how I think the majority and the vulnerable will be better off.
Where have I said that? I’m just asking why you still think leaving is a good idea, what benefits will it bring?Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Friday's Ghost
Parliament are doing the exact thing they’re supposed to do, it’s called sovereignty.Quote:
The more important issue is whether parliament is allowed to ignore the voice of the electorate. I think the more important issue for you and many others is whether we stay in the EU. I think you're wrong.
The more important issue for me is the wellbeing of the people in this country. Especially the poor and the working classes.
By the way, so far as I am aware neither campaign has been found guilty of electoral fraud. So neither campaign was illegal. And the Electoral Commission has said that there is no evidence that the irregularities it has found on the leave side had an effect on the result.
Am I saying something offensive asking people what the benefits of leaving are going to be?
Why are people acting like I’m on a wind up and insulting people.
I’m being fair and asking a reasonable question. I’m yet to get a straight answer.
The allegations have been proven. May hasn’t allowed any investigation into it because then they’d have to stop Brexit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Friday's Ghost
She doesn’t want to because her husband is a hedge fund manager who’s making millions from this.
You're wrong. We live in a representative democracy. In that system we elect MPs and, if they don't do what we want, we elect a different MP at the next election.Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue
There is one exception to that - when the government (in this case supported overwhelmingly by Parliament) decides to use direct democracy in the form of a plebiscite.
When Parliament passed the issue over to us, and the government promised to act on our decision, they ceded their sovereignty to us. Their job was to act on what we decided. They haven't.
Can you show me evidence of where the leave campaign has been found guilty of fraud? You says it was acting illegally.Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue
You can stick your conspiracies where the sun don't shine. I called it 3 years ago after the staged Tory leadership contest, and it's turned out exactly as I predicted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue
Are you ignoring the fact of it being a non binding referendum?
Parliament’s job is to serve the people of this country. If they’d have backed May’s deal they’d have been making us definitely worse off.
They’re working exactly how they are supposed to work.
I’m still waiting for one benefit of Brexit that you voted for.
And I'm not sure you want to bring hedge fund managers into the debate do you?
Also the referendum was only advisory and not legally binding. All of the vote leave campaigns have actually been found guilty of electoral fraud. One was fined another £40k only this week. If the the referendum was legally binding it would have been declared null and voidQuote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue
Look up the integrity initiative, they have a roster of journalists who have been pushing this stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Friday's Ghost
It’s turned out exactly as most people predicted it. There’s no underhandedness at play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
There’s a country with a useless government leaving a group of countries with whom they have a good deal. How exactly was it supposed to work differently?
Yes since they’re the ones who were funding the leave campaign. Have a look at how much money Farage, Rees-Mogg and Aaron Banks have made since the referendum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Friday's Ghost
I agree it was technically non-binding. I'm not ignoring that. I'm awarding more sigificance to the fact that we were told the result would be acted upon. The government spent £9m of our money telling us.
What you are doing is what disreputable companies do in telling people they should have read the small print when a different story was told in banner headlines in their ad.
And I'm not debating the pros and cons of Brexit with you. As I've said as nausum, it's not about that and I really don't care what you think my reasons might be.
Anyway I have to go make dinner. Enjoy your evening safe in the knowledge that if the government ignores 17.4m voters they're probably not too concerned about you or the other 999,999 who've signed this petition.
You can go look for yourself though, the facts are out there for everyone to see.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
3 pages and still waiting for one benefit as to why people still want to leave.
Why do you keep saying the government are ignoring people? Brexit is being negotiated, Brexit will happen and it will be to the detriment of the poorest members of society in this country.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Friday's Ghost
I've already had a little scratch below the surface thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue
I thought your expertise would be required investigating the Sala crash, and helping with Boeing 737 Max 8 investigations?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
Link us to it then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Friday's Ghost
Which version of leave do you think we should adopt? Two of the leaders of the official voting leave campaign group, Gove and Johnson, think very differently. One supports May the other wants to leave with no deal. If these two have different opinions of what leaving means, surely the leave voters must be equally as split
And both of those options come with big negatives for the country and big positives for disaster capitalists.Quote:
Originally Posted by neilw65
Huh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa
You need to satisfy your own mind, you don't need others to do it for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue
The one line you can’t read between :hehe:Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
I’ve satisfied my own mind though, you were disagreeing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
We all know why you wouldn’t post, it’s because you read complete nonsense from conspiracy sites and believe every single word. Once you link it that’s your cover blown.
Come on give me one benefit of Brexit and why the illuminati and the lizards aren’t allowing it to happen even though they’re all going to get stinking rich off it and the plumettig value of the pound.
Yet again conspiracy theorists aren’t interested in the real conspiracies like who funded Aaron banks and the elite Tory party members making bank on the falling value of the pound.
It’s almost like the only conspiracy theories that get pushed are ones that have an alt right leaning and ones that benefit the right wing government who are in power.