Theresa May

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Originally Posted by Pearcey3

Spot on and the BBC is one of the worst offenders in this respect.

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I think you would actually find that most of the BBC are left wingers.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

The New Statesman is a weekly publication. The Observer is basically the Guardian on a Sunday.

Top 10 national daily papers in the UK by circulation:

Metro (owned by Daily Mail) (right wing)
The Sun (right wing)
Daily Mail (far right wing)
Daily Mirror (left wing)
The Times (right wing)
The Telegraph (right wing)
Daily Star (right wing)
Daily Express (right wing)
Independent (neutral)
Guardian (centre left)

You might say from that list that right wing media is simply more popular. However, I've been into shops where I've never seen a copy of the Independent and Guardian. The right wing media outlets are run by billionnaires who can afford to take losses in order to peddle what they want. I don't believe it is right for billionnaires to be able to influence how we think so much.

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I recall rerading somewhere that the average daily is paid for by the advertising before it is printed. Or at least close to......

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Originally Posted by Pearcey3

I wish the media particularly would not refer to him as “Boris” like he’s your friend. He is a right winger who doesn’t give a toss about anyone other than himself. It’s Johnson.

As for May she only shows emotion when her career is damaged. A dreadful politician whose repulsive hostile environment policy has damaged and destroyed the lives of legal immigrants.
She was the PM of the nasty party.

Good riddance.

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I don't think one can start to think about Boris Johnson's politics because before that one should recognise his completely self-serving nature. There are plenty of people who believe in conservatism and centre-right politics and they should be terrified that their party may be lead by someone who would throw them all under a bus in order to get to Prime Minister.

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

I think you would actually find that most of the BBC are left wingers.

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Nonsense. Name them. Are they Robbie Gibb, Andrew Neil, Chris Patten, Nick Robinson, John Humphries etc etc.
Studies have always shown Tory politicians get far more air time than the opposition. Whenever I watch Newsnight I am staggered about the dominance of Tories being interviewed.

When Corbyn became Labour leader he was referred to as the “left wing” leader of the Labour Party. Will the BBC constantly refer to Johnson or whichever Brexiteer becomes the next PM as the right wing Tory leader? I doubt it very much.
The BBC is all about preserving the establishment. Someone like Corbyn is seen as dangerous as he is not one of them.

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Originally Posted by Pearcey3

Nonsense. Name them. Are they Robbie Gibb, Andrew Neil, Chris Patten, Nick Robinson, John Humphries etc etc.
Studies have always shown Tory politicians get far more air time than the opposition. Whenever I watch Newsnight I am staggered about the dominance of Tories being interviewed.

When Corbyn became Labour leader he was referred to as the “left wing” leader of the Labour Party. Will the BBC constantly refer to Johnson or whichever Brexiteer becomes the next PM as the right wing Tory leader? I doubt it very much.
The BBC is all about preserving the establishment. Someone like Corbyn is seen as dangerous as he is not one of them.

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Maybe he is seen as dangerous because he is.
But he is one of them. He has been a politician almost all his life. He was renowned for refusing to toe the leadership line so often, and voted against what the party wanted on more occasions than you could count. He now heads up a leadership cabal that attempts to oust anyone who speaks up against his leadership. witness momentum trying to deselect MPs who oppose his/their ideas.

He is very dangerous, I just pray that the country never has the opportunity to find out how dangerous.

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Originally Posted by Elwood Blues

Why is anti Corbyn necessarily anti Labour???

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Spot on

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

The New Statesman is a weekly publication. The Observer is basically the Guardian on a Sunday.

Top 10 national daily papers in the UK by circulation:

Metro (owned by Daily Mail) (right wing)
The Sun (right wing)
Daily Mail (far right wing)
Daily Mirror (left wing)
The Times (right wing)
The Telegraph (right wing)
Daily Star (right wing)
Daily Express (right wing)
Independent (neutral)
Guardian (centre left)

You might say from that list that right wing media is simply more popular. However, I've been into shops where I've never seen a copy of the Independent and Guardian. The right wing media outlets are run by billionnaires who can afford to take losses in order to peddle what they want. I don't believe it is right for billionnaires to be able to influence how we think so much.

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It's an interesting one as left leaning folk buy right wing papers ,if they didn't , the Daily Mirror would sell so many more copies,than the Sun.

Talking to a newsagents recently about selling out of certain papers , he informs me that the shelf supply is driven by the demand .

I'm sure if a billionaire though could sell 10 million papers a year to a left audience ,I'm sure he would, bugger his politics ,as it's about the money .

[QUOTE=xsnaggle;4975807]Maybe he is seen as dangerous because he is.
But he is one of them. He has been a politician almost all his life. He was renowned for refusing to toe the leadership line so often, and voted against what the party wanted on more occasions than you could count.

-- more than 500 times , dangerous , absolutely spot on.

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Originally Posted by Elwood Blues

Still there is a bright side. I can't see any new PM wanting an election so we won't have Corbyn in thank goodness.

I was disappointed in Theresa May but I cannot abide Corbyn.

Labours divisions on have been masked by the tory chaos.

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The new, even more right wing, PM will have to call an election. They won’t get a no deal through Parliament without a change in the numbers. The country won’t vote for a no deal government either so it’s deal or scrap brexit.

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

I think you would actually find that most of the BBC are left wingers.

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BBC comedians maybe (and in the old days current affairs programme makers), but not news executives or headline reporters.

There are two measures: what is reported and how it is reported, and on both the BBC leans to the right.

I have heard it said for over 30 years that the BBC takes its' news agenda from the Daily Telegraph. That may be short-hand, but they definitely follow the agenda of the (mainly Tory) print media. When it comes to how they present the news (with in my mind an often warped idea of what constitutes 'balance') a pre-establishment and conservative (small c and big C) bias is obvious.

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Originally Posted by Elwood Blues

Why is anti Corbyn necessarily anti Labour???

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Because those so-called left leaning papers/magazines have often claimed that Corbyn, Corbynistas, Momentum (except when they like Momentum for challenging what they think Corbyn believes) have taken over or hijacked the Labour Party - and as a result they have called for voters to support the Lib Dems, Greens, Change UK etc.

The leader and the party don't have to be the same - although in the case of Labour the vast majority of the expanded membership support the leader, even if it is still a minority of MPs - but my point was that the liberal press have equated the leader with the party when trying to influence electoral outcomes.

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

I think you would actually find that most of the BBC are left wingers.

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In their national news output? Kuenssberg - Tory. Norman Smith - Tory. Head of BBC News - Tory. For starters....

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Originally Posted by life on mars

It's an interesting one as left leaning folk buy right wing papers ,if they didn't , the Daily Mirror would sell so many more copies,than the Sun.

Talking to a newsagents recently about selling out of certain papers , he informs me that the shelf supply is driven by the demand .

I'm sure if a billionaire though could sell 10 million papers a year to a left audience ,I'm sure he would, bugger his politics ,as it's about the money .

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You've taken out of the equation completely the possibility that papers have an agenda to get people to think the way they want.

I would agree that many don't consider political leanings when they buy a paper. The media will know this. Their job is to peddle what they're told to, or set the agenda their bosses want.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

The notion of a "proper" Labour party after the New Labour phase was an attractive one, but the leadership has shown itself to be weak and too easy a target for the right wing media. There are posters on here whose political views I have plenty of time for who are adamant that antisemitism is not an issue in the Labour party, but my own view is that if there was a genuine will at the top of the party to tackle the issue head on, it would not be the festering sore to the party that it is today. Similarly, the way Labour has tied itself up in knots (mainly because of its leaders views on Europe being at odds with those of the majority of its members and MPs) has seen their "all things to all men" approach bring about a situation, which will, almost certainly, lead to confirmation tomorrow that they are almost an irrelevance as men, and women, desert them in droves - all at a time when it is predicted that the governing party are going to finish fifth in the poll.

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I think the Labour anti-semitism 'crisis' is partly manufactured, although there are clearly some real examples of appalling racism.

I think the position of Labour as the main opposition with mainly Remain members and MPs, but with a large minority of its (mainly historic) supporters backing Leave was always going to put it in a difficult position - unlike smaller parties who could ignore half the country and adopt a clean position.

However, I agree that the Labour Party leadership has at times been weak and indecisive. They are very inexperienced, and the leader never wanted the role - although he has since grown into it a bit in that he has stopped offering up as many easy targets for hostile media and internal opponents to shoot at.

Despite the risk of splitting the Labour Party, the leadership has been fence sitting and watching the Tories implode for too long. A stronger and more experienced opposition would probably have been more effective in 2018. However, that doesn't magic away the parliamentary arithmetic or Theresa May's personality and style.

Maybe Labour could have damaged her more and brought her to a compromise offer without her own party dumping her? But that could only have been around a 'soft' Brexit (customs union etc.), and would also have risked splitting the Labour Party (even though that may have been in line with conference policy).

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

I think you would actually find that most of the BBC are left wingers.

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How can you know who’s in charge of bbc news and watch bbc news and then think this mate?

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Originally Posted by Elwood Blues

Independant? Guardian? Observer? New Statesman

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Centrist paper, the same paper and a weekly magazine ffs :hehe:

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

Maybe he is seen as dangerous because he is.
But he is one of them. He has been a politician almost all his life. He was renowned for refusing to toe the leadership line so often, and voted against what the party wanted on more occasions than you could count. He now heads up a leadership cabal that attempts to oust anyone who speaks up against his leadership. witness momentum trying to deselect MPs who oppose his/their ideas.

He is very dangerous, I just pray that the country never has the opportunity to find out how dangerous.

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Yeah the Labour manifesto in 2017 was really dangerous. Yeah Corbyn was really dangerous to oppose the Iraq War, Syria, Libya etc because they went really well.
The dangerous ones are the Tories who will shaft the weakest in our society.
Anyway I look forward to all the names of the lefties in the corridors of power at the BBC.

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

Maybe he is seen as dangerous because he is.
But he is one of them. He has been a politician almost all his life. He was renowned for refusing to toe the leadership line so often, and voted against what the party wanted on more occasions than you could count. He now heads up a leadership cabal that attempts to oust anyone who speaks up against his leadership. witness momentum trying to deselect MPs who oppose his/their ideas.

He is very dangerous, I just pray that the country never has the opportunity to find out how dangerous.

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Well said.

Corbyn would have to go some to match the chaos caused by the last two incumbents at number 10.

A couple of quotes from people who have worked inside it. But I'm sure people with all the internet skills will be able to find something to argue against it.

One thing I would say, I never said individuals were biased but that the BBC as an institution is. It is that way by virtue of the people who work there, some of whom think they are more intelligent than the 'masses' who need to be 'guided' and 'educated'.

https://biasedbbc.org/quotes-of-shame/

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

Maybe he is seen as dangerous because he is.
But he is one of them. He has been a politician almost all his life. He was renowned for refusing to toe the leadership line so often, and voted against what the party wanted on more occasions than you could count. He now heads up a leadership cabal that attempts to oust anyone who speaks up against his leadership. witness momentum trying to deselect MPs who oppose his/their ideas.

He is very dangerous, I just pray that the country never has the opportunity to find out how dangerous.

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People have been saying this for years, we have had a general election since Corbyn took over and nobody has been deselected for speaking out against the leadership. What would it take for you to start to doubt your own position?

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

A couple of quotes from people who have worked inside it. But I'm sure people with all the internet skills will be able to find something to argue against it.

One thing I would say, I never said individuals were biased but that the BBC as an institution is. It is that way by virtue of the people who work there, some of whom think they are more intelligent than the 'masses' who need to be 'guided' and 'educated'.

https://biasedbbc.org/quotes-of-shame/

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I'm sure anyone could create a list of biased quotes depending on their political colours; there are plenty of people on the left who are exasperated at the BBC's stance at times. Maybe it depends on what you're listening to at the time - The News Quiz or the Today show.

What's wrong with being 'educated'? Sometimes I watch telly to learn stuff.

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

A couple of quotes from people who have worked inside it. But I'm sure people with all the internet skills will be able to find something to argue against it.

One thing I would say, I never said individuals were biased but that the BBC as an institution is. It is that way by virtue of the people who work there, some of whom think they are more intelligent than the 'masses' who need to be 'guided' and 'educated'.

https://biasedbbc.org/quotes-of-shame/

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Don't you think people need to be educated? Seems like quite a sensible approach to me.

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Originally Posted by Bluebirdman Of Alcathays

I'm sure anyone could create a list of biased quotes depending on their political colours; there are plenty of people on the left who are exasperated at the BBC's stance at times. Maybe it depends on what you're listening to at the time - The News Quiz or the Today show.

What's wrong with being 'educated'? Sometimes I watch telly to learn stuff.

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I think this rather proves the point about the BBC's alleged bias

https://inews.co.uk/culture/televisi...ght-wing-bias/

It seems that, surprise, surprise the bias is nearly always seen as being in favour of the side that is opposite your own politics - something which may well suggest that the BBC is, broadly, neutral.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

I think the Labour anti-semitism 'crisis' is partly manufactured, although there are clearly some real examples of appalling racism.

I think the position of Labour as the main opposition with mainly Remain members and MPs, but with a large minority of its (mainly historic) supporters backing Leave was always going to put it in a difficult position - unlike smaller parties who could ignore half the country and adopt a clean position.

However, I agree that the Labour Party leadership has at times been weak and indecisive. They are very inexperienced, and the leader never wanted the role - although he has since grown into it a bit in that he has stopped offering up as many easy targets for hostile media and internal opponents to shoot at.

Despite the risk of splitting the Labour Party, the leadership has been fence sitting and watching the Tories implode for too long. A stronger and more experienced opposition would probably have been more effective in 2018. However, that doesn't magic away the parliamentary arithmetic or Theresa May's personality and style.

Maybe Labour could have damaged her more and brought her to a compromise offer without her own party dumping her? But that could only have been around a 'soft' Brexit (customs union etc.), and would also have risked splitting the Labour Party (even though that may have been in line with conference policy).

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I think that's a fair analysis Jon, but with regard to your last paragraph, I did quite a long post on the politics forum outlining why I believe that Europe is/has been a much bigger problem for the Conservatives than for Labour. While I accept that it would mean losing votes and probably members from the Leave side of the argument, my instinct (admittedly, I'm far from infallible in that department!) is that Labour would handle a change of approach to favour becoming a "remain" party far better than the Tories would and so feel that they are missing a trick so to speak - again, I'm talking instinct here, but it seems to me that the current leader is the biggest obstruction to such a thing happening.

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

A couple of quotes from people who have worked inside it. But I'm sure people with all the internet skills will be able to find something to argue against it.

One thing I would say, I never said individuals were biased but that the BBC as an institution is. It is that way by virtue of the people who work there, some of whom think they are more intelligent than the 'masses' who need to be 'guided' and 'educated'.

https://biasedbbc.org/quotes-of-shame/

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Seems like a neutral source there.

Would anyone expect a compete scum bag who has opinions like this about the suadi
Embassy murder to think the bbc was left leaning though? This prick would think farage was a lefty.

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

While any mrder is unjustifiable remember that this man knew the risk he was taking as shown by his instruction to his woman, and also that if he was murdered then the murder did not happen in Turkey. He may just as easily have been arrested and renditioned to Saudi Arabia.
We are told there is proof but no one is rushing to reveal it.

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Originally Posted by lardy

Don't you think people need to be educated? Seems like quite a sensible approach to me.

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I think education is a wonderful thing. The comment about needing to be educated with regard to the people we were discussing was in, "We need to educate these people who obviouskly on't think the same as us, the error of their ways" It didin't mean education in the usual school - college- university way.

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Originally Posted by rudy gestede

Would anyone expect a compete scum bag who has opinions like this about the suadi
Embassy murder to think the bbc was left leaning though? This prick would think farage was a lefty.

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There you go again with your totally unnecessary and offensive language. Who the feck are you to call anyone a prick or a scumbag you keyboard warrior toss pot?

You must have wasted some time trawling to find that post mind. It was in the Saudi murder thread ages ago. Couldn't you find anything later? :hehe:
And what I said was neither left nor right wing, but a simple fact. The man knew the Saudi's didn't like him (to put it mildly) and he knew that when he entered the Embassy he would be on Saudi sovereign territory, so by extension he knew the risk he was taking. you must have a very twisted view of things to turn that into something you are suggesting.
you're just an insulting arsehole.

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Originally Posted by lardy

Don't you think people need to be educated? Seems like quite a sensible approach to me.

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You certainly need reeducating :hehe:

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

There you go again with your totally unnecessary and offensive language. Who the feck are you to call anyone a prick or a scumbag you keyboard warrior toss pot?

You must have wasted some time trawling to find that post mind. It was in the Saudi murder thread ages ago. Couldn't you find anything later? :hehe:
And what I said was neither left nor right wing, but a simple fact. The man knew the Saudi's didn't like him (to put it mildly) and he knew that when he entered the Embassy he would be on Saudi sovereign territory, so by extension he knew the risk he was taking. you must have a very twisted view of things to turn that into something you are suggesting.
you're just an insulting arsehole.

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The moral high ground has been conceded a tad with your own invective.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

The moral high ground has been conceded a tad with your own invective.

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Oh bugger, you spotted it!!! :hehe::hehe::hehe::hehe:

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

Oh bugger, you spotted it!!! :hehe::hehe::hehe::hehe:

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You are correct though, this board’s Jeremy’s Corbyn resorts to insults at the drop of a hat. I’ve been insulted and sworn at by him. Luckily for us we are not snowflakes and sticks and stones etc etc. Still he does lose the debate each time he swears at and insults other posters.

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Originally Posted by BlueArmy 86

Tara 👋

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So the Tories are having a third election to appoint a leader, after not being happy with the outcome of the last two.

Meanwhile, voters are denied a confirmatory vote on Brexit.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

So the Tories are having a third election to appoint a leader, after not being happy with the outcome of the last two.

Meanwhile, voters are denied a confirmatory vote on Brexit.

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Second election to elect a Prime Minister.

The one before Theresa May was Cameron in 2005!!

They were happy enough with him for over 10 years and he wasn't pushed but went himself.

I'm not a great fan of a second referendum but if it was just to confirm the way we leave I could accept it.

I would not support one if remain was one of the choices

We've done that.

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Originally Posted by Elwood Blues

Second election to elect a Prime Minister.

The one before Theresa May was Cameron in 2005!!

They were happy enough with him for over 10 years and he wasn't pushed but went himself.

I'm not a great fan of a second referendum but if it was just to confirm the way we leave I could accept it.

I would not support one if remain was one of the choices

We've done that.

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He didn't so much go himself as made a quick exit so not to deal with the incredible mess he had made. Like throwing up all over a friend's living room and making a dash for it rather than owning up.

There is an argument that the first referendum had one side breaking electoral law and our system being open to misinformation spread by foreign countries. If you have any time for that then I'm not sure how you could want a second referendum until that has been properly investigated and any massive holes in the system closed.

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Originally Posted by severncity

You are correct though, this board’s Jeremy’s Corbyn resorts to insults at the drop of a hat. I’ve been insulted and sworn at by him. Luckily for us we are not snowflakes and sticks and stones etc etc. Still he does lose the debate each time he swears at and insults other posters.

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Both of you share abhorrent views you deserve to be insulted. This board is a cesspit of backwards old men and losers who think their backwards opinion deserve to be respected.

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

There you go again with your totally unnecessary and offensive language. Who the feck are you to call anyone a prick or a scumbag you keyboard warrior toss pot?

You must have wasted some time trawling to find that post mind. It was in the Saudi murder thread ages ago. Couldn't you find anything later? :hehe:
And what I said was neither left nor right wing, but a simple fact. The man knew the Saudi's didn't like him (to put it mildly) and he knew that when he entered the Embassy he would be on Saudi sovereign territory, so by extension he knew the risk he was taking. you must have a very twisted view of things to turn that into something you are suggesting.
you're just an insulting arsehole.

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It’s on the first page of your posts pal. You are a scumbag and I stick to that.

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Originally Posted by surge

He didn't so much go himself as made a quick exit so not to deal with the incredible mess he had made. Like throwing up all over a friend's living room and making a dash for it rather than owning up.

There is an argument that the first referendum had one side breaking electoral law and our system being open to misinformation spread by foreign countries. If you have any time for that then I'm not sure how you could want a second referendum until that has been properly investigated and any massive holes in the system closed.

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I understand you and many others have a point of view regarding the referendum but to keep rehash the same comments and arguments is a little pointless don't you think? It has happened, it is done. Finished. Dead. I do believe it has been looked at by those in some power who wanted to find a reason to nullify it, but it stands. Talk about having another by all means but why waste our energy on the last one?
If Tony Blair hadn't changed the referendum rules in order to get his Wales Assembly referendum through then the Brexit referendum would have resoundingly returned a 'remain' result, but what is is.
Just for a little clarity on my own position before I am attacked by all the usual pro remain warriors. I was a pro remain voter but I believe that having voted to go we should do it. so if there were another I would vote to leave.

Further, regarding hard or soft exit, I have been taught in and by life that as a general rule no decision is right or wrong until after it is made. It is what is done or not done after the decision, in consequence of it, that normally brings about a satisfactory or unsatisfactory result. So no one can tell which course is best until it is taken and in this case there is no previous situation to give guidance. so lets just make a decision and then all work together as a nation to make it right for all of us!! All this inability to make a decision is helping no one and only making this country look weak and stupid. If those in a position to see that cannot see it then lets get rid of them all.

God, I must be bored this morning. :facepalm: