The Environment

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Originally Posted by WJ99mobile

Climate change is cyclical though, it’s just this time it’s different in it’s rate.

It’ll always be cyclical though. It’ll change, and change again. It just won’t be as we know it now.

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And why do you think it's different in its rate this time compared to the other times?

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Originally Posted by BLUETIT

On iPhone so can’t duplicate your post, but I’m sure you said “your JOB was related to climate change” .

So you’re one of the f uckers trying to frighten us, are you not ????

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You should be frightened. We are past the point of no return, and life is going to be very difficult for your kids and grandkids. You'll probably be ok though, so why care?

Absolutely mad that the people who don’t believe climate change isn’t happening don’t appear to have read any of the latest available information or evidence and appear not to understand why we believe it is happening and say the experts haven’t got a clue.

It’s almost like they’ve watched 5 minutes of a news story about it then decided they know everything about it and are convinced it’s all going to be fine anyway.

I’m sure it’s just a coincidence these are the exact same people who voted for brexit.

I take it that you and Allez Allez Allez are going to vote for the Green Party in the next general Election?

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Originally Posted by Vindec

I'm not saying there is not climate change but when the so called climate experts were persuading us to buy diesel cars only to find years later that it is not CO2 emissions but NOX emisions that are bad it turns out that the experts were wrong. There must have been a lot of evidence at that time that diesel was a cleaner fuel when clearly now it is not. Frankly I take "expert" advice with a pinch of salt and don't believe everything I read. Of course climate change could be a real danger but I am yet to be convinced.

The Earth’s climate does go through natural cycles of warming and cooling and while it is probable that mans activity is causing the earth to warm an explanation for current increases could just as easily be attributed to a natural or cyclical change.

People like Croeso might choose to belittle those with alternative views to his but I prefer to not believe everything I read and make up my own mind and merely not follow the herd by accepting the "evidence" put before me.

I'm not a climate change deniar; merely a person who has yet to be convinced but will follow the evidence with interest.

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The diesel question is an interesting one.

They definitely produce less carbon emissions than petrol.
Older diesel engines produce more particulates and nox emissions that are toxic than petrol engines - but only about as much as a petrol car from a few years earlier.
New diesel engines are about as clean as new petrol engines.

There has definitely been a backlash against diesel recently, and I suspect that people who make money from petrol and petrol engines might be behind that.

Interestingly in terms of the particulate matter, I spoke to a professor at Cardiff university a few years ago who said in his opinion petrol particulates were more dangerous as they are a lot smaller and go straight into your blood and tissues, whereas diesel particulate matter is larger and easier for your body to deal with.

Also the particulate matter from your car could well be less than that from those scented candles your Mrs insists on lighting every night.


Going back to climate change, to your last sentence- if you are yet to be convinced by the evidence, then you haven't fully understood it.

If the scientific evidence about climate change is to be believed, and there is no reason why it shouldn’t be, then why are governments all over the world, so reluctant to act on it?
Some pay lip service to it, and carry out token gestures, but on the whole, very little is being done, considering it’s a being described as a serious threat to future generations.
In reality, we could be living on the cleanest planet in the universe, and it wouldn’t matter a jot! As I said earlier in this thread, the probable downfall of mankind won’t be climate change, it will be greed and religion. 2 facts of life that, unlike climate change, can never be altered, or eradicated.
The most frustrating thing about the situation, is millions of people all over the world, are peace loving, caring of their fellow man, and willing to help the planet and others if they can, but since time began, the fate of many, has always been guided by the hands of few.
My advice to everyone on here, is live your life as fully as you can, be good to your neighbours and friends, and try not to worry about things out of your control.
It’s a fact of life, that the minority will always try to spoil it for the majority.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

The diesel question is an interesting one.

They definitely produce less carbon emissions than petrol.
Older diesel engines produce more particulates and nox emissions that are toxic than petrol engines - but only about as much as a petrol car from a few years earlier.
New diesel engines are about as clean as new petrol engines.

There has definitely been a backlash against diesel recently, and I suspect that people who make money from petrol and petrol engines might be behind that.

Interestingly in terms of the particulate matter, I spoke to a professor at Cardiff university a few years ago who said in his opinion petrol particulates were more dangerous as they are a lot smaller and go straight into your blood and tissues, whereas diesel particulate matter is larger and easier for your body to deal with.

Also the particulate matter from your car could well be less than that from those scented candles your Mrs insists on lighting every night.


Going back to climate change, to your last sentence- if you are yet to be convinced by the evidence, then you haven't fully understood it.

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The companies making diesel engines also make petrol engines. There's a backlash against diesel for good reasons, governments sold it as clean but have used ambiguous definitions for the word clean. VW anyone?

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

I take it that you and Allez Allez Allez are going to vote for the Green Party in the next general Election?

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I voted for them last election, and probably will next time.

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

If the scientific evidence about climate change is to be believed, and there is no reason why it shouldn’t be, then why are governments all over the world, so reluctant to act on it?
Some pay lip service to it, and carry out token gestures, but on the whole, very little is being done, considering it’s a being described as a serious threat to future generations.
In reality, we could be living on the cleanest planet in the universe, and it wouldn’t matter a jot! As I said earlier in this thread, the probable downfall of mankind won’t be climate change, it will be greed and religion. 2 facts of life that, unlike climate change, can never be altered, or eradicated.
The most frustrating thing about the situation, is millions of people all over the world, are peace loving, caring of their fellow man, and willing to help the planet and others if they can, but since time began, the fate of many, has always been guided by the hands of few.
My advice to everyone on here, is live your life as fully as you can, be good to your neighbours and friends, and try not to worry about things out of your control.
It’s a fact of life, that the minority will always try to spoil it for the majority.

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Politicians aren't incentivised to consider anything that happens beyond the next election. Unless people start making the longer term a voting priority then that will never change

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Originally Posted by Allez Allez Allez

I voted for them last election, and probably will next time.

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That’s good to hear. You sound like a man/woman of principle. Personally, I’d love to see them given power for 4 yrs, just to see what kind of job they can do. Like everyone else on here, I’ve only ever experienced being governed by one of the big 2, and neither have done a particularly good job in my lifetime.
Saying that though, it’s a near impossible job to keep 60m people happy.

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

If the scientific evidence about climate change is to be believed, and there is no reason why it shouldn’t be, then why are governments all over the world, so reluctant to act on it?
Some pay lip service to it, and carry out token gestures, but on the whole, very little is being done, considering it’s a being described as a serious threat to future generations.
In reality, we could be living on the cleanest planet in the universe, and it wouldn’t matter a jot! As I said earlier in this thread, the probable downfall of mankind won’t be climate change, it will be greed and religion. 2 facts of life that, unlike climate change, can never be altered, or eradicated.
The most frustrating thing about the situation, is millions of people all over the world, are peace loving, caring of their fellow man, and willing to help the planet and others if they can, but since time began, the fate of many, has always been guided by the hands of few.
My advice to everyone on here, is live your life as fully as you can, be good to your neighbours and friends, and try not to worry about things out of your control.
It’s a fact of life, that the minority will always try to spoil it for the majority.

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Greed and religion have both been around for millennia and humans are still going strong.

Governments haven't done much because it's expensive to change infrastructure which in some cases may be fairly new, and big changes often have an immediate negative economic impact. Far easier for them to kick the can down the road and let some other politicians get the rap.

Trump is a great example, someone who is definitely not a long term leader. One of the first things on his to-do list was to pull the US out of the Paris Agreement, because it's an easy win to say you're bringing jobs back by re-opening the mines and factories and not letting outsiders tell you what to do (Brexit?).

You're right about greed and religion being around for so long, but then again, so has climate change.
Only problem is, they both seem to be accelerating. It maybe 50/50 as to what will get us 1st?

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Originally Posted by Allez Allez Allez

It looks nice and clean. But, Australia still produce large amounts of electricity through coal and gas, so Australia is a shit example.

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🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
It's a nice example of John and Jane dough taking pride in their environment. And a decent base to start from, incidentally, the city has great transport infrastructure with car congestion mimimul in comparison with Western Europe its probably a better example than you think 👍

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Originally Posted by Nelsonca61

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It's a nice example of John and Jane dough taking pride in their environment. And a decent base to start from, incidentally, the city has great transport infrastructure with car congestion mimimul in comparison with Western Europe its probably a better example than you think ��

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I was in Perth last week, and I agree that it's lovely and clean.

But you can't compare it to Western Europe. It's one major city in an area about the size of Western Europe, so no wonder there's little congestion. About two and a half million people versus four hundred million.

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Originally Posted by Nelsonca61

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
It's a nice example of John and Jane dough taking pride in their environment. And a decent base to start from, incidentally, the city has great transport infrastructure with car congestion mimimul in comparison with Western Europe its probably a better example than you think 👍

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Australia is one of the most wasteful societies (other than rainwater). They are pretty American in their outlook, driving big engined cars etc

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

You're right about greed and religion being around for so long, but then again, so has climate change.
Only problem is, they both seem to be accelerating. It maybe 50/50 as to what will get us 1st?

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To be honest, I haven't seen any data regarding an increase in greed and religion.

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Originally Posted by lardy

To be honest, I haven't seen any data regarding an increase in greed and religion.

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I thought the amont of people identifying as being religious had been steadily decreasing for quite a while.

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Originally Posted by lardy

I was in Perth last week, and I agree that it's lovely and clean.

But you can't compare it to Western Europe. It's one major city in an area about the size of Western Europe, so no wonder there's little congestion. About two and a half million people versus four hundred million.

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Also, Perth started really becoming developed about 50 years ago. Compare that to London, the bones of which were getting built in about the 15th Century. Which is going to be easier to build nice wide highways and access roads in?

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Originally Posted by Vindec

I prefer to not believe everything I read and make up my own mind and merely not follow the herd by accepting the "evidence" put before me.

I'm not a climate change deniar; merely a person who has yet to be convinced but will follow the evidence with interest.

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But.... don't accept evidence... but follow the evidence... and make up your own mind? Make your own mind up based on what, given you don't seem keen on 'evidence'? What is your threshhold for believing what is written? How many respected research bodies need to write it down before you believe it? Or are you conducting your own research?

To be frank, I don't have the time, skill, or knowledge to properly assess the "evidence" either. I say leave that to the scientists, who do all of the hard work and give us the exec summary, which I am able to digest. And they are as good as unanimous in their view that humans are affecting climate change. It could of course be a conspiracy, but then it seems like a monumentally difficult one to maintain given the scale and visibility of the issue; and there seems to be no reason for establishing such a conspiracy that is proportionate to the effort for doing so. And I suppose those scientists could all just be wrong. Or I do suppose it is possible that some of these people who don't believe the overwhelming weight of peer-reviewed and scrutinised evidence and research from all corners of the globe may have conducted their own, better research which does support a contrary conclusion.

But it seems more likely to me that for some it is an uncomfortable truth that they would rather deny; or they fancy themselves as contrarians.

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Originally Posted by lardy

To be honest, I haven't seen any data regarding an increase in greed and religion.

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You ain’t gonna see any “data” on Greed increasing. You wouldn’t be allowed to see it😂
Anyway, with the likes of Trump and maybe Johnson getting powerful positions, there’s more chance of a nuclear disaster than you being able to grow bananas in your garden.

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

I take it that you and Allez Allez Allez are going to vote for the Green Party in the next general Election?

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I voted greens at the european but I'm not 100% on board with all their policies but it's likely I would at the next general election.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

I voted greens at the european but I'm not 100% on board with all their policies but it's likely I would at the next general election.

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Good on you. So will I. They are never gonna get a chance to show us what they can do unless they are given the chance.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

I voted greens at the european but I'm not 100% on board with all their policies but it's likely I would at the next general election.

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That’s one vote towards a labour government then :facepalm:

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Originally Posted by BLUETIT

That’s one vote towards a labour government then :facepalm:

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Would you prefer a tory government?

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Originally Posted by BLUETIT

That’s one vote towards a labour government then :facepalm:

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Considering Grayling has cost the UK taxpayer £2.5bn and counting, anyone but the f**king Tories is a pretty good start.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

Would you prefer a tory government?

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I’d like a government who listen to the people

Never going to happen though is it

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Originally Posted by BLUETIT

I’d like a government who listen to the people

Never going to happen though is it

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What makes you think a Labour government wouldn't listen to the people? What's being ignored that all the people want?

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

What makes you think a Labour government wouldn't listen to the people? What's being ignored that all the people want?

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Dah, people voted OUT, labour ain’t helping with that are they

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Originally Posted by BLUETIT

Dah, people voted OUT, labour ain’t helping with that are they

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So who would you vote for in a general election?

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Originally Posted by BLUETIT

Dah, people voted OUT, labour ain’t helping with that are they

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What do you mean labour aren't helping?

Labour want to leave, but they haven't voted through any of May's bad deals, just have the tories have done.

Why are you so desperate for Brexit to happen?

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

What do you mean labour aren't helping?

Labour want to leave, but they haven't voted through any of May's bad deals, just have the tories have done.

Why are you so desperate for Brexit to happen?

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Where did I say “I’m desperate” or where did I say “I “ voted to leave. !!!

The people voted.

It won’t matter who is Tory leader, they’ll still veto it, bet you

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Originally Posted by BLUETIT

Where did I say “I’m desperate” or where did I say “I “ voted to leave. !!!

The people voted.

It won’t matter who is Tory leader, they’ll still veto it, bet you

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Would that be a bad thing?

So you think Labour and the Tories will do the same thing, so why did you say "that's another vote for labour then" as a negative?

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

Would that be a bad thing?

So you think Labour and the Tories will do the same thing, so why did you say "that's another vote for labour then" as a negative?

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Who knows !!!

It’s into uncharted waters.

Question, if we do eventually leave, do you think others will follow suit ????

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Originally Posted by BLUETIT

Who knows !!!

It’s into uncharted waters.

Question, if we do eventually leave, do you think others will follow suit ????

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But why does it matter if I vote greens and give a vote to labour if no one is listening to the people?

EU support amongst other european countries is higher than ever so I would be surprised if anyone else leaves - http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/e...eu-in-35-years

Especially now the UK is a great case study for how hard your economy will be hit.

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Originally Posted by BLUETIT

Dah, people voted OUT, labour ain’t helping with that are they

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Labour won't be listening to the people when their taxes rise to pay for their policies. On top of that whenever an issue is raised the Labour response is to chuck more money at it. That sounds like a good idea but the money has to come from somewhere and taxing businesses isn't the answer as that would cause unemployment which is consistent with Labour's past record where unemployment is always higher when they leave government than when they arrived.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

My job is related to climate change and I wrote my thesis on climate change, I’m not belittling people I’m just saying there is so much evidence for this it’s as close to certain as something can be.

Nothing is 100% certain ever you’re right, but the cyclical theory has enough contradictory evidence that it’s not even considered a possibility any more.

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Donald Trump says there is not and it's all a hoax, we are insignificant but should play our bit, but we really need Russia, USA, China, India, Africa, Brazil and all the rest to play their part!

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Originally Posted by WJ99mobile

How popular has it become in the last 5 years to ‘save the planet’

I’m all for being kinder, but this new wave of eco friendliness has come to me as a surprise. That coupled with the green parties growth around the EU in politics, is a long way from what I expected a few years ago.

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I think it's because scientists are beginning to realise that things are worse than they thought. It's not just climate change. It's waste, pollution etc.

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Originally Posted by NYCBlue

I think it's because scientists are beginning to realise that things are worse than they thought. It's not just climate change. It's waste, pollution etc.

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Unfortunately we live in a throw away society.

Tele screen to small, throw the 2 year old one away and buy a 55 incher.

Old wardrobe rickerdy, throw it away and go to IKEA.

Oh, I’ve (not me personally), had my phone/computer/computer games/add whatever, 6 months, I (not me personally) need the most recent.

Add clothes, cars, furniture, almost anything, nothing gets fixed these days, it’s throw away and buy new.

Years ago, when people got married , furniture was handed down to them, attempt it now and they’d turn their noses up, or accept it, but take it straight down the tip.

Everyone is at fault sometimes and you all know it.

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Originally Posted by lardy

Also, Perth started really becoming developed about 50 years ago. Compare that to London, the bones of which were getting built in about the 15th Century. Which is going to be easier to build nice wide highways and access roads in?

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Of course and that's not a debate, that the space they have allows bigger better infrastructure, but stopping the leccy line at Cardiff central and the space argument is gone, it's pure cost that the jacks have to travel by diesel. However old the cities, comparing to London doesn't merit the people of the UK treating their cities like a toilet when it comes disposing of general Litter waste, I'm reasonably travelled about Europe, the cleanest City from my travels would be Warsaw, I have also been to 3 other smaller Polish Cities and was surprised with Warsaw being the largest that it seemed quite clean, my favourite Euro City Prague,10 visits in the last 11 years doesn't score so well, the filthiest being Paris a close call with London, a young Democrat congress lady AOC :hehe: was telling the world that we only have 12 years, if she's right, costs really shouldn't be an issue at such a critical stage, I'm all for a nice environment, I changed my car 18 months ago and it was an almost new car from a diesel to a petrol for environment purposes, it cost me a bit of dough to do it, and the petrol costs a bit more to run, I'll change it again in 12 months for a leccy job. if the support structure is in place, I'm currently employed on a nuclear project for Hinkley which is one of the least damaging sources of energy for the environment, although I'm not personally in favour of nuclear power because of the legacy it will leave (clean-up) for future generations if AOC is wrong about 12 years!!. I've said I'll not vote again but if it ever became mandatory would prolly lean towards the green party, evenings out in town are by train (no choice but diesel) very rarely use my car on the weekend preferring to either walk or cycle, infact I've just walked over the heath hospital (and got bluddy wet) to locate the exact building I need to take my dad to on Wednesday, I shit post on green issues to be argumentative but do take it seriously, the real impetus though has to come from the leadership at the top, and the big decisions regarding fossil fuels and the by products (plastics etc.)
PS!! having the train line in the middle of the road what a great idea :biggrin:
Attachment 3111
Watched their equivalent of question time one evening, was brutal :hehe: