Are fans losing faith in Neil Warnock?

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Originally Posted by dml1954

The people on this board who continuously slag off one of the best managers we have ever had are embarrassing themselves and the club generally. Luckily they are considerably in the minority and not representative of the people who go to the stadium regularly.

He has picked this club up by its bootstraps, given it back its passion and pride and re-engaged the fans. Where exactly were we when he arrived three years ago ? - going nowhere but down to League One, thats where, under Slade and then Trollope. Our squad is much better now than it was two years ago but all you lot can do is moan that we haven't spent enough and are weak in midfield, even though we have Ralls, Vaulks, Bacuna, Paterson, Reid, Hoilett, Whyte, Tomlin, Nelson, Bamba and Murphy who do or can play there. The anti Warnock brigade have all been made to look particularly stupid in the last three years by what has been achieved, so now, after one defeat, when four of our main players were missing anyway, the ‘bandwagon’ has been rolled out again and mock indignation at our ‘useless manager’ reigns supreme on here. Its all getting very boring now.

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Murphy, Hoilett or Whyte in central midfield??? WTF?!?

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Good post. I was another who was saying that the end of last season seemed like the right type to have a change of manager and I'm pretty sure we weren't the only ones.

Warnock, surely, earned himself a full season to try to crack it in the Premier League with promotion in 17/18?

The transfer window does threaten to be completely underwhelming, but is that just down to the manager? Barring the sort of spending tomorrow I think we should be seeing from a club in our sort of position (and I don't mean huge amounts), it seems to me that we've gone at things kind of half arsed - certainly not "having a right go at it" like Mehmet Dalman I think it was said earlier in the summer.

I've also seen a line of thought which says that the money men have not been willing to give Warnock a lot to spend because of his not very good record at Cardiff when it comes to playing large fees for players, but why let him stay if that was the case?

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Then again, Dalman, Choo et al aren't exactly brimming with 'football knowledge'. What always irks me about managers - including Warnock - is they would rather bring in 3 players who aren't really going to go straight into the side, when for 3 times the transfer fee and wages they probably would get one who would..

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

Murphy, Hoilett or Whyte in central midfield??? WTF?!?

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He's also added Paterson and Bamba, so he may as well go the full hog and add Etheridge and Ronnie Jepson!

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

Then again, Dalman, Choo et al aren't exactly brimming with 'football knowledge'. What always irks me about managers - including Warnock - is they would rather bring in 3 players who aren't really going to go straight into the side, when for 3 times the transfer fee and wages they probably would get one who would..

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He said last summer we won’t be bringing in anyone for the sake of it, they had to be better than we already had and for 3 transfer windows that’s exactly what we’ve done. Brought in players who can’t get in the team.

Dalman likes to talk the talk but hes certainly not walking the walk.

It’s so underwhelming.

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Originally Posted by thehumblegringo

He's also added Paterson and Bamba, so he may as well go the full hog and add Etheridge and Ronnie Jepson!

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Might as well add Greg Cunningham to the list. Another player who can’t get a game. Maybe he can play midfield?

When he leaves I'll bet his phone won't stop ringing with championship clubs trying to talk him out of retirement.What will it be like if we lose 2 games in a row.

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Originally Posted by dml1954

The people on this board who continuously slag off one of the best managers we have ever had are embarrassing themselves and the club generally. Luckily they are considerably in the minority and not representative of the people who go to the stadium regularly.

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I'm not slagging him off. He has done well, and now his time with us has come to it's own natural conclusion. He's good at turning around failing clubs, but he's not your guy for coming up with development plans that cover the next 3 to 5 years, and beyond.

This may have been said before but I think Warnock's "reputation" or more accurately "Warnock-ball" frightens individual players from coming to the club and other better class clubs from loaning out players to us.

Agree with others that Warnock stating that he had no desire to manage again in the Premier League should have been the green light for a club with any great ambition to immediately start looking for someone to replace him.

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Originally Posted by dml1954

The people on this board who continuously slag off one of the best managers we have ever had are embarrassing themselves and the club generally. Luckily they are considerably in the minority and not representative of the people who go to the stadium regularly.

He has picked this club up by its bootstraps, given it back its passion and pride and re-engaged the fans. Where exactly were we when he arrived three years ago ? - going nowhere but down to League One, thats where, under Slade and then Trollope. Our squad is much better now than it was two years ago but all you lot can do is moan that we haven't spent enough and are weak in midfield, even though we have Ralls, Vaulks, Bacuna, Paterson, Reid, Hoilett, Whyte, Tomlin, Nelson, Bamba and Murphy who do or can play there. The anti Warnock brigade have all been made to look particularly stupid in the last three years by what has been achieved, so now, after one defeat, when four of our main players were missing anyway, the ‘bandwagon’ has been rolled out again and mock indignation at our ‘useless manager’ reigns supreme on here. Its all getting very boring now.

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Josh Murphy in centre mid? I think I'd rather we played Brian there for crying out loud. I'm a Warnock fan and even I am extremely concerned as to what's gone on this summer. Don't you think it's a bit early to be planning to put square pegs in round holes? If we had an injury crisis, fine but we have the money and we're spending it on more strikers! Warnock has done a very good job in his time here but that doesn't excuse him from criticism.

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Originally Posted by dml1954

The people on this board who continuously slag off one of the best managers we have ever had are embarrassing themselves and the club generally. Luckily they are considerably in the minority and not representative of the people who go to the stadium regularly.

He has picked this club up by its bootstraps, given it back its passion and pride and re-engaged the fans. Where exactly were we when he arrived three years ago ? - going nowhere but down to League One, thats where, under Slade and then Trollope. Our squad is much better now than it was two years ago but all you lot can do is moan that we haven't spent enough and are weak in midfield, even though we have Ralls, Vaulks, Bacuna, Paterson, Reid, Hoilett, Whyte, Tomlin, Nelson, Bamba and Murphy who do or can play there. The anti Warnock brigade have all been made to look particularly stupid in the last three years by what has been achieved, so now, after one defeat, when four of our main players were missing anyway, the ‘bandwagon’ has been rolled out again and mock indignation at our ‘useless manager’ reigns supreme on here. Its all getting very boring now.

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No one is slagging him off. In fact the support Warnock receives is overwhelming on here. We all want to see him succeed but a lot of us are rightly concerned. Especially with the bizarre transfer window which is defying common sense and reflecting very poorly on the people in charge. And your player list of 'midfielders' is laughable. Only Vaulks, Bacuna and Ralls are midfielders. That's one of the problems!

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Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa

None of our keepers can kick, none of our centre backs can play, Peltier is old school, none of our midfielders are all that on the ball and our strikers don't really score. So that.

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Yet there are players in the squad that can actually play (therefore not “Warnock players”)

I’m not going round in circles I know I’m right.

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Originally Posted by dembethewarrior

Yet there are players in the squad that can actually play (therefore not “Warnock players”)

I’m not going round in circles I know I’m right.

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But he doesn’t play them :hehe:

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Originally Posted by life on mars

This is so unfair too the man :


beyond everyone's wildest dream he got us up
he then defied all the experts up to the last few games and had us in contention.
back end of the season we bloody injury ravaged with Bamba. Patterson, limping Cammasara ,Gunner and so many others crocked or limping on .
buy a striker and we know what happened then.
robbed against Chelsea.
bloody Leicester home game , could have been a better environment for us ( that was 6 points gone )
he got us up last with a nuts and bolts side
he's got no real financial backing once there
poor scouting team for years ,still the case ( club issue for me not him )
if we change now, its a brand new man , new squad ,bags of money needed FFS then hits us
transfers are always in the pools below a lot of other big midland /London established type clubs ( always has been )
were in Wales ( not every footballers dream destination especially those with roots and family in England )
needs a better development squad and investment ( club issue ).
no rich via of talent to tap into , as the bigger clubs are attracting those welsh youngsters .


Who would you have in , how much would he need , how much compensation do we pay out , how many players contact would we run down or cancel and at what cost.

We have played one ducking game FFS

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:thumbup:

I was someone advocating for him to stay and that was based on me thinking the job he was doing here was not yet finished and the stability he was able to bring. I also said that success this year would be in setting us up to compete over the next several years rather than what Neil has been talking about: one more promotion.

Playing style: we largely know what it's going to be but jumping from Slade to Trollope hardly worked out and I would advocate evolution of style rather than revolution. I can't remember who said it, it may have been me or I might have stolen it, but changing from DJ to Malky to Ole to Slade to Trollope was a bit like a drunk swaying from side to side: neither the club or the drunk has any idea about how its going to get to where it wants to go. Farke at Norwich may have done well in his second year but first did not pull up trees, and frankly we're getting posts questioning whether to question the manager after one defeat....

Transfers: I would love to know what transfers made this past summer people disagree with. If we end up with Smithies staying then I can't see the need for Day, I struggle to see the point in Flint given what we have here and that Warnock could easily find us a really good CB to cover us for the next three or four years, but apart from that I like the potential of each one.

It's very early in the season and while it was a concern to concede three goals on the opening day it really was just the opening day. He'll be gone in a year and if we're left with the core of a side to either challenge for promotion to premier league or aid survival, a new training facility and 18,000 plus season tickets no matter what league we're in then he'll have done well.

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Originally Posted by surge

I was someone advocating for him to stay and that was based on me thinking the job he was doing here was not yet finished and the stability he was able to bring. I also said that success this year would be in setting us up to compete over the next several years rather than what Neil has been talking about: one more promotion.

Playing style: we largely know what it's going to be but jumping from Slade to Trollope hardly worked out and I would advocate evolution of style rather than revolution. I can't remember who said it, it may have been me or I might have stolen it, but changing from DJ to Malky to Ole to Slade to Trollope was a bit like a drunk swaying from side to side: neither the club or the drunk has any idea about how its going to get to where it wants to go. Farke at Norwich may have done well in his second year but first did not pull up trees, and frankly we're getting posts questioning whether to question the manager after one defeat....

Transfers: I would love to know what transfers made this past summer people disagree with. If we end up with Smithies staying then I can't see the need for Day, I struggle to see the point in Flint given what we have here and that Warnock could easily find us a really good CB to cover us for the next three or four years, but apart from that I like the potential of each one.

It's very early in the season and while it was a concern to concede three goals on the opening day it really was just the opening day. He'll be gone in a year and if we're left with the core of a side to either challenge for promotion to premier league or aid survival, a new training facility and 18,000 plus season tickets no matter what league we're in then he'll have done well.

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I can't speak for anyone else but I don't see the problem with a season or two of stabilization like Norwich did before we make serious inroads towards a promotion challenge.

The result Saturday is genuinely not an issue for me and I'm aware that anyone can beat anyone in this league.

I still expect us to do really well this season and Warnock will no doubt prove many wrong and set us up to get results we never thought possible.

I have no problem with going backwards to go forward though I don't think large sections our fan base would share my views. I'm aware that I see the game very differently to Bluetit or Lawnmower for example but that doesn't make either of us wrong.

I feel that we don't have a fan base primed to play the ball out from the back and I think people would go mad during the period of transition.

My problem isn't with the individuals who have been brought but rather that we haven't addressed the needs of our squad.

Our biggest need was to address the midfield and the full back situations and these have been neglected yet again.

Managers always seem to have blind spots, Wenger with defensive midfielders etc.
We always cried out for pace under Malky, Dave Jones which was left unaddressed.

As Hartley says, we sign players that clearly won't work hard enough for Warnock yet he seems surprised when they play as they've always play.

It would be nice to see us have a strategy that shows we're thinking about the balance of our squad.

I really don't get some people.

People can be critical of Warnock football or some of his ideas but you cannot question the miracle he is working here.

He basically built the club and brought it together. He pulled a squad together out of misfits and unwanted players. Got over 90 points and I think that league was far better than the one last year.

People say the players aren't good enough then surely the manager has worked miracle to only just miss out last season. We were truly unlucky and I feel we really deserved to stay up.

Then all of a sudden if the players are good enough then he has brought them in give him credit.

Everyone wants to see their team play like Man City and Liverpool but it's not going to happen because only some teams can succeed. Warnock goes against everything others are trying because it is effective we can dominate games we have 35% possession in

All of a sudden people seem to know what is the reason we win and lose.

Some people want attacking fluid football
Some people want to win
Some.people want a team of home grown players
Some want players who don't stop running

Warnock isn't perfect I do wish he would spend money on players who would actually play but he has already deliver much more than he should have

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Originally Posted by life on mars

This is so unfair too the man :


beyond everyone's wildest dream he got us up
he then defied all the experts up to the last few games and had us in contention.
back end of the season we bloody injury ravaged with Bamba. Patterson, limping Cammasara ,Gunner and so many others crocked or limping on .
buy a striker and we know what happened then.
robbed against Chelsea.
bloody Leicester home game , could have been a better environment for us ( that was 6 points gone )
he got us up last with a nuts and bolts side
he's got no real financial backing once there
poor scouting team for years ,still the case ( club issue for me not him )
if we change now, its a brand new man , new squad ,bags of money needed FFS then hits us
transfers are always in the pools below a lot of other big midland /London established type clubs ( always has been )
were in Wales ( not every footballers dream destination especially those with roots and family in England )
needs a better development squad and investment ( club issue ).
no rich via of talent to tap into , as the bigger clubs are attracting those welsh youngsters .


Who would you have in , how much would he need , how much compensation do we pay out , how many players contact would we run down or cancel and at what cost.

We have played one ducking game FFS

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1 game indeed...see how many teams come away from Wigan with 3 points..knee jerk reaction that's unfortunately becoming the norm in this we want it now world that we live in...****ing tories

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Originally Posted by blue lewj

Nail on the head.

The keepers not being able to kick along with the centre backs and midfield being unable to play and still getting game time is that they are playing the Warnock way.
The fact that are playing in the team under Warnock is because we play in the style he asks us them and picks/signs players to suit.

If we tried to play a quicker, possession based, passing game then more than a few would be exposed in a big way.

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My post that he was replying to wasn’t suggesting we play a different style, I was pointing out the that “Neil Warnock players” aren’t all we sign because we have/have had players that can play since he came in, Pedro then picked out the most Warnock players in our team to counter me.

I wish he had stepped down at the end of last season because I think we need a new playing philosophy at the club and we need to build. But Warnock wanted to stay and he just about earned that, so I begrudgeingly accepted it. Even if he managed to get back in the EPL with this team I don't think it would end any better than it did last time.

Getting the best out of older, limited players is getting old. I'd like to seem him do it with someone with young and talented. If Warnock can't get the best out of Murphy, and especially if he moves on Bobby Reid beacuse he can't work out how to play him, then I will have lost all faith in him.

Answer from me, after hearing the latest transfer news, is a big fat effing YES.

Tainted the good he’s done here now in just one transfer window.

Without doubt the past two hours or so on this board have seen the anti-Warnock feelings reach an all-time high since he joined us.

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Originally Posted by dembethewarrior

Answer from me, after hearing the latest transfer news, is a big fat effing YES.

Tainted the good he’s done here now in just one transfer window.

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I will reserve final judgement for 24 hours but so far this summer's transfer window has damaged Warnock reputation in my eyes and perhaps he should have left at the end of last season.

Letting bobby Reid go would show shocking lack of ambition. I think I’d finally lose the faith I had in NW too

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Originally Posted by simonp_ccfc

No one is slagging him off. In fact the support Warnock receives is overwhelming on here. We all want to see him succeed but a lot of us are rightly concerned. Especially with the bizarre transfer window which is defying common sense and reflecting very poorly on the people in charge. And your player list of 'midfielders' is laughable. Only Vaulks, Bacuna and Ralls are midfielders. That's one of the problems!

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All of the players I listed have or can play midfield roles for us, in particular Paterson who played most of the season before last in central midfield and scored ten goals. Hoilett and Reid also regularly played midfield for their previous clubs, as did Tomlin. Nelson can/has played in front of the back four previously.

Also you can only sign players if they want to come here in the first place and their clubs agree to sell at a fee we can afford. These are facts obviously well beyond the scope of understanding of some people on here who also lay the blame at the managers door, even though the actual signing of players is nothing to do with him. The people advocating getting rid of the manager are mainly ones who have been wanting him gone almost since he came here.

Is it Warnock though? Or is it the board? Or the whoever scouts these players?

Does Warnock pick the players he wants or is he given them? It would seem the 'transfer committee (Dalman, Choo and Warnock) have held over a barrel with some of these transfers. Both with the fees and the contracts handed out.

When he came here he immediately brought in Hoilett and Bamba who have been excellent, then signed Etheridge and Mendez-Laing who have also been excellent....all for no fees and allegedly low wages. Even Damour was low risk when he cam on a free. And last season's loans of Arter, Camarassa and Niasse were not bad. But then look at other transfers Madine, Smithies, Cunningham at a reported £13.5m, Ward, Bogle and Tomlin at about £4m. Bacuna at £3m on a four and half year deal. Reid and Murphy at £21m and in and out of the team week to week?These all seem to have flopped except Bacuna who is still in favour. This summer started well with Vaulks, Day and Nelson at just £2m as what we thought would be squad fillers. Then nothing until last week with Whyte and Glatzel at £7.5m. It's hardly a sign of intent from a team newly relegated from the PL intending to to bounce back at the first attempt.

Then I waited, all week this week, and.....nothing. I have been hoping we'll be pleasantly surprised but when I heard the Vassell talk I was hardly inspired. It seems like we are deliberately trying to weaken the team or maybe it's just a series of bad transfers. And we still only have 5 central midfielders, two of which are Tomlin and Damour.

As I said earlier is it Warnock? Maybe the club are on a cost cutting exercise, like Swansea had to, and the club are not publicising this. But at least Swansea bought cheap and just got £35m for two players!

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Originally Posted by dml1954

All of the players I listed have or can play midfield roles for us, in particular Paterson who played most of the season before last in central midfield and scored ten goals. Hoilett and Reid also regularly played midfield for their previous clubs, as did Tomlin. Nelson can/has played in front of the back four previously.

Also you can only sign players if they want to come here in the first place and their clubs agree to sell at a fee we can afford. These are facts obviously well beyond the scope of understanding of some people on here who also lay the blame at the managers door, even though the actual signing of players is nothing to do with him. The people advocating getting rid of the manager are mainly ones who have been wanting him gone almost since he came here.

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He was an attacking midfielder, he timed his runs well to get into scoring positions.

What he isn’t though, is a CENTRAL midfielder. An attacking midfielder (or CAM) really is NOT a central midfielder, which is where we are short of bodies.

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Originally Posted by dml1954

All of the players I listed have or can play midfield roles for us, in particular Paterson who played most of the season before last in central midfield and scored ten goals. Hoilett and Reid also regularly played midfield for their previous clubs, as did Tomlin. Nelson can/has played in front of the back four previously.

Also you can only sign players if they want to come here in the first place and their clubs agree to sell at a fee we can afford. These are facts obviously well beyond the scope of understanding of some people on here who also lay the blame at the managers door, even though the actual signing of players is nothing to do with him. The people advocating getting rid of the manager are mainly ones who have been wanting him gone almost since he came here.

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We are talking swapping an expensive player for a cheap one, we seem to be downgrading and trying to turn a profit after saying “we’re having a right go”

I’ve always supported Neil, but I’m not going to blindly follow him just because he’s our manager. I am entitled to hold the opinion that Neil has done well and helped us but is NOW losing the plot a little.

Doesn’t mean I don’t support the club you effing wally. I’ll still support Neil and the players come too, but you know what!? I can STILL hold an opinion.

Quit your high and mighty crap mate.

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Originally Posted by sneggyblubird

When he leaves I'll bet his phone won't stop ringing with championship clubs trying to talk him out of retirement.What will it be like if we lose 2 games in a row.

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Slight hyperbole but he's more a fixer, not a long term option.

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Originally Posted by goats

Letting bobby Reid go would show shocking lack of ambition. I think I’d finally lose the faith I had in NW too

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If Reid went, it's highly possible that Warnock would have had no say in it.

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Originally Posted by rs3100

It reads too well for that.

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That was might first thought. "Punctuation is too good!" :hehe:

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

If Reid went, it's highly possible that Warnock would have had no say in it.

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It’s also highly possible that Warnock is too wily a character in the football world to be outdone by comparative novices like MD and KC and play the 2 off against VT to get his way.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

If Reid went, it's highly possible that Warnock would have had no say in it.

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If Reid goes, I think this board will go into meltdown.

Maybe I'm being cynical but I can't see bobby reid going and I think the story would've been put out there so fans breathe a huge sigh of relief when we do little business either way, and see today as a success, forgetting we've not got a cm, rb etc in

If he does go then I despair. Wouldn't turn or anything but I think it'd be setting us back a few seasons as I hoped when a new manager came in next season he'd use Bobby Reid as his main man

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Originally Posted by SunderlandBluebird

Maybe I'm being cynical but I can't see bobby reid going and I think the story would've been put out there so fans breathe a huge sigh of relief when we do little business either way, and see today as a success, forgetting we've not got a cm, rb etc in

If he does go then I despair. Wouldn't turn or anything but I think it'd be setting us back a few seasons as I hoped when a new manager came in next season he'd use Bobby Reid as his main man

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I for one won't suddenly start thinking it's been a good window if, say, we sign Vassell today and don't sell anyone because it will mean we have not done enough to tackle the gaping hole that the departures of Gunnarsson, Camarasa and Arter left in our squad.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I for one won't suddenly start thinking it's been a good window if, say, we sign Vassell today and don't sell anyone because it will mean we have not done enough to tackle the gaping hole that the departures of Gunnarsson, Camarasa and Arter left in our squad.

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I completely agree, but I can see a few seeing it as a great day now if Vassell comes in, Reid stays and f all else happens.

I remember when Day, Nelson and Vaulks signed in 48 hours I thought that's a great start. Little did I know bar 2 strikers we know nothing about, that'd probably be it.

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Originally Posted by SunderlandBluebird

Maybe I'm being cynical but I can't see bobby reid going and I think the story would've been put out there so fans breathe a huge sigh of relief when we do little business either way, and see today as a success, forgetting we've not got a cm, rb etc in

If he does go then I despair. Wouldn't turn or anything but I think it'd be setting us back a few seasons as I hoped when a new manager came in next season he'd use Bobby Reid as his main man

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I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.

And agree Reid could thrive under the right manager here.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I for one won't suddenly start thinking it's been a good window if, say, we sign Vassell today and don't sell anyone because it will mean we have not done enough to tackle the gaping hole that the departures of Gunnarsson, Camarasa and Arter left in our squad.

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+1. If we don't resolve our midfield issue today, we'll continue to get overrun a'la'Wigan. Also, we desperately need some pace in our defence.

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Originally Posted by SunderlandBluebird

Maybe I'm being cynical but I can't see bobby reid going and I think the story would've been put out there so fans breathe a huge sigh of relief when we do little business either way, and see today as a success, forgetting we've not got a cm, rb etc in

If he does go then I despair. Wouldn't turn or anything but I think it'd be setting us back a few seasons as I hoped when a new manager came in next season he'd use Bobby Reid as his main man

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I don't think it's a case of turning for me. It would just completely kill my enthusiasm to watch us play.

I'm already a bit perturbed with the lack of skill on display and yet to sell who is my opinion our best player not because we have an offer we can't refuse (aka Dan James) but cos our manager can't work out a way how to get the best out of him cos he's not 6 foot 2 and 15 stone.

This would be the straw that breaks the camel's back for me.

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Originally Posted by thehumblegringo

I don't think it's a case of turning for me. It would just completely kill my enthusiasm to watch us play.

I'm already a bit perturbed with the lack of skill on display and yet to sell who is my opinion our best player not because we have an offer we can't refuse (aka Dan James) but cos our manager can't work out a way how to get the best out of him cos he's not 6 foot 2 and 15 stone.

This would be the straw that breaks the camel's back for me.

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This maybe a little harsh on the rest but not only is Reid one of our best players. For me he is one of the very few footballers we have. Warnock says this is his last season. At least keep Reid so the next manager can make better use of him.