Can you imagine how cardiff fans would react if we passed the ball around at the back like Luton did yesterday?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RonnieBird

What do you want to do then ?
- start trying to play a continental style passing game and taking on Liverpool and Manchester City at their own game ?

Cardiff City have has a good measure of success by doing something different to most other teams. When it works, which is quite a lot of the time, it exploits the weaknesses in current footballing strategies and gets us much further than we've got any right to expect with our resources.
That's worth doing and gets results, and it's called Warnockball.

From my point of view it's far more creditable than just buying success as the big clubs do, and in the real world 90% of clubs including ourselves can't do that anyway.

There are many many clubs trying to play "quality" football and yielding nothing but frustrated mediocrity from their efforts.

Case in point: Bristol City.

Warnockball got us promoted with one of the lowest budgets in the Championship and very nearly kept us in the premiership.
There's a very good chance that Warnockball will get us there again this year.

Those who constantly moan about it, ( and I don't single you out because there are plenty here), are not being logical or wise.

I sometimes get a bit irritated in the other threads here with youngsters who don't acknowledge that experience of the real world counts much and think they're the first people to come up with theories which don't actually work.

Perhaps that makes me a bit rude and dismissive of them, which is probably wrong of me, but the fact is that I've been around the block a few times and in the process I hope I've learned the difference between a seductive argument and a workable policy. On this basis , I suggest that the manager we've got knows exactly what he's doing - what sounds like a nice idea and what will actually work to get the best possible outcome in an imperfect world.

---

Jesus, nobody wants us to be Man City or Liverpool or even Bristol City, although the club are having a good go at it! All thar people are asking for is that we try and keep the ball a little longer and don't invite pressure, and maybe for the fullbacks to support the wide players now and again. I'm glad that you also live in the 'real world' whatever that is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tuerto

Jesus, nobody wants us to be Man City or Liverpool or even Bristol City, although the club are having a good go at it! All thar people are asking for is that we try and keep the ball a little longer and don't invite pressure, and maybe for the fullbacks to support the wide players now and again. I'm glad that you also live in the 'real world' whatever that is.

---

Agree with all this, we give the ball away far too easily and that puts us under massive pressure.

The possession stat is counted passes rather than time on the ball so I think it’s a little skewed because of how we play.

But there’s no hiding the fact that we are terrible at keeping the ball and passing the ball.

I wouldn’t want to see us constantly passing it around the back but when we are 1-0 up I’d rather us do that than keep giving it away.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by welshwarrior

I remember going to city matches with my friend, Steven Spear way back when Jimmy Scholar was manager,Great teams then and great football,Tosh, Clarkie GIBSON, Anderson,football was fun then.

---

Obviously our most intelligent manager🤪

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tuerto

Do we know if they play like that all of the time? Luton didn't want to get into a long ball game with us for obvious reasons, there keeper when forced to kick was knocking the ball out to the wide areas. I can sort of understand why they were trying to play out, especially as we only play with one striker and are very strong in the air.

---

Their fans seem to think they do.
And their manager is a proponent of it. Check his history.
😉

Ironic thing was when they got into our half they often then hit high balls which we gobbled up

Some good posts in this thread and it's great to see the level of debate has taken a step upward curve lately.

Though I may not be as harsh as wolf mother (sometimes) I'm generally in his camp in how we view the game.

I do feel Warnock had a responsibility to keep one eye on the next incoming manager and to assist the club in that transition. The board also had the same responsibility.

I believe there's a reason Flint was signed by Pulis and then Warnock. I'm not disputing that Flint is not good at what he does but a more mobile, younger replacement like Nelson would have been a better long term replacement.

I don't think we'll have a choice whether we want to evolve into the modern game. Players like Peltier etc are dying species and even if we had an academy like Ajax they could never be used in the way our manager would want them to be used.

Kids are taught differently today and are 10 times more technical than they were when I was a kid.

It affects us when we are trying to develop our own, it affects us in the loan market and affects us when attracting players.

the top completed passers in the opposition half yesterday were

Ralls 16/24
Pack 13/20
Tunnicliffe 13/23

We pass the ball in the areas where it hurts teams , not around our own box.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wolfmother

You know exactly what you get with Warwick. And it’s not suitable for the club potential. It might be for a team like Luton. But not Cardiff. How many was at the game yesterday? And just like that, I keep a higher standard than Jordan..

Ask yourself, what is he trying to achieve? What would be the point of going up? We have no players capable of stepping up. Didn’t sign anyone for the future. And we all know what would happen if we did. Still sign players on a shoestring budget.
Lots of clubs do that. But they are slowly building something, or at least trying to. For me, get Warwick on the bus. And take Dalman and that little fella with him..

---

I’m not sure how much you realise how important it was that Warnock got us up 2 years ago, just before our parachute payments ran out- and we’ve now got 2 years to do the same before they run out again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

the top completed passers in the opposition half yesterday were

Ralls 16/24
Pack 13/20
Tunnicliffe 13/23

We pass the ball in the areas where it hurts teams , not around our own box.

---

Top 2 passers were city players, non passing team versus a passing team.

Well I never

Stats eh.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

I’m not sure how much you realise how important it was that Warnock got us up 2 years ago, just before our parachute payments ran out- and we’ve now got 2 years to do the same before they run out again.

---

*claps*

As much as I’d like to see us playbetter it was pretty imperative we went up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

the top completed passers in the opposition half yesterday were

Ralls 16/24
Pack 13/20
Tunnicliffe 13/23

We pass the ball in the areas where it hurts teams , not around our own box.

---

But when we are defending a lead passing the ball to retain possession is useful. How many times have we drawn or lost games defending a lead because we can’t keep the ball?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thehumblegringo

Some good posts in this thread and it's great to see the level of debate has taken a step upward curve lately.

Though I may not be as harsh as wolf mother (sometimes) I'm generally in his camp in how we view the game.

I do feel Warnock had a responsibility to keep one eye on the next incoming manager and to assist the club in that transition. The board also had the same responsibility.

I believe there's a reason Flint was signed by Pulis and then Warnock. I'm not disputing that Flint is not good at what he does but a more mobile, younger replacement like Nelson would have been a better long term replacement.

I don't think we'll have a choice whether we want to evolve into the modern game. Players like Peltier etc are dying species and even if we had an academy like Ajax they could never be used in the way our manager would want them to be used.

Kids are taught differently today and are 10 times more technical than they were when I was a kid.

It affects us when we are trying to develop our own, it affects us in the loan market and affects us when attracting players.

---

Warnock did sign nelson aswell to be fair. Are you saying he should play him above flint (aged 30 so a good few years left in that position in this league) even if he thinks it would make the team worse?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Father Dougal

Warnock did sign nelson aswell to be fair. Are you saying he should play him above flint (aged 30 so a good few years left in that position in this league) even if he thinks it would make the team worse?

---

I think a few agree one or the other with mozza/flint and nelson who is apparently comfortable on the ball and a bit quicker would be worth looking at.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Father Dougal

Warnock did sign nelson aswell to be fair. Are you saying he should play him above flint (aged 30 so a good few years left in that position in this league) even if he thinks it would make the team worse?

---

The Wurzels used to stick Flint up front when searching for a late goal. Could make a useful contribution at the other end of the pitch this season.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Father Dougal

Warnock did sign nelson aswell to be fair. Are you saying he should play him above flint (aged 30 so a good few years left in that position in this league) even if he thinks it would make the team worse?

---

It's where you spend the money then though. We could have played Nelson and strengthened our midfield or full back situation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rudy gestede

But when we are defending a lead passing the ball to retain possession is useful. How many times have we drawn or lost games defending a lead because we can’t keep the ball?

---

Considering the last time at this level we got 90 points we probably have as good a record as most in this league at taking the 3 points when ahead.

I also wouldn't be surprised to see us up there at turning losing positions into wins under Warnock. Last 10 minutes will often throw up goals as it doesn't matter the style you play, you will likely be put under pressure.

Luton yesterday played quite a boring version of a passing game yet still shat themselves at 1-1 and gave away fouls and sliced clearances.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

I’m not sure how much you realise how important it was that Warnock got us up 2 years ago, just before our parachute payments ran out- and we’ve now got 2 years to do the same before they run out again.

---

Yes i do. Can you believe the luck? And what is the point this time? I know we have invested some in training grounds etc. But why are we only signing one youngster, and don’t have any close to the first team? Why are we signing players making us even more “Warwick ball”? You see, the crowds are good. Pretty amazing really playing hat makers. But how do you think recruiting youngsters will fare giving them a sore neck going to games? They watch Man city. They play fifa. I think they will pass.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rudy gestede

But when we are defending a lead passing the ball to retain possession is useful. How many times have we drawn or lost games defending a lead because we can’t keep the ball?

---

I don’t know, but I bet

a. We’ve won more by getting it forward quickly

b. We’ve given away less leads late on than Dave Jones’ super passers

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wolfmother

Yes i do. Can you believe the luck? And what is the point this time? I know we have invested some in training grounds etc. But why are we only signing one youngster, and don’t have any close to the first team? Why are we signing players making us even more “Warwick ball”? You see, the crowds are good. Pretty amazing really playing hat makers. But how do you think recruiting youngsters will fare giving them a sore neck going to games? They watch Man city. They play fifa. I think they will pass.

---

Our crowds would be much less if we’d had to get rid of all our best players and were in league 1 or fighting to stay up.

Seems like you’ve also forgotten Trollope

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dembethewarrior

I think a few agree one or the other with mozza/flint and nelson who is apparently comfortable on the ball and a bit quicker would be worth looking at.

---

Even though both are proven at this level - when fit first choice at their clubs for the past 5 seasons.
Both £5m players.

Also, I think , and from what I’ve seen, Flint is fairly comfortable on the ball.

Warnock ( and probably 9/10 other managers) isn’t going to gamble on changing this.

I’d guess Nelson will get a game with 1 in the league cup in a couple of weeks, so you’ll get to see him then

My biggest worry with these 2 is that they are both a bit slow on the turn.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

Even though both are proven at this level - when fit first choice at their clubs for the past 5 seasons.
Both £5m players.

Also, I think , and from what I’ve seen, Flint is fairly comfortable on the ball.

Warnock ( and probably 9/10 other managers) isn’t going to gamble on changing this.

I’d guess Nelson will get a game with 1 in the league cup in a couple of weeks, so you’ll get to see him then

My biggest worry with these 2 is that they are both a bit slow on the turn.

---

It’s not ability mate or what’s proven, it’s that they’re too similar and both slow.
But hey ho it worked Saturday with Pack in front of them so who knows moving forward, maybe Vaulks in the CM instead of a 10 so we have 3 CM and we won’t need the extra pace at CB because they’ll have adequate cover.

That assessment was made on the Wigan game when a shite Josh Windass took the piss, better players with pace than him will visit and on the opening day the 2 didn’t work, but like I’ve said it could be down to putting a better midfield ahead of them or adding pace.

Nothing against ether player.

I know how Cardiff fans react when we can't string two simple passes together and keep giving away possession.

There is a danger of the whole debate being polarised, as if it's a choice between total long ball and Swansea style tippy tappy stuff in your own half. I have yet to hear any City fans wanting that tiki taka nonsense at the club, while it would be unfair to say our entire game was 100% long ball.

The main reason for our relegation last side was that we conceded too many goals. Statistically, the number of goals we scored and the number of wins should have been enough for survival, yet we simply didn't manage to hold onto enough draws when our defence was under pressure. Enjoying a bit more possession and being more capable of passing the ball a little (last season we had the worst possession and passing accuracy stats in the PL in a decade) helps relieve the pressure on our defence. Sometimes there's a case for calming things down instead of looking for the long bomb forward to try and regroup.

Luton hardly broke through us on Saturday, but I reckon that was not so much down to their football. There were times they got into threatening positions before a good challenge or clearance stopped the danger. Our defensive discipline was very good, we sat deep and Luton didn't have the players good enough to break us down. There would have been no point in them playing a longer ball game as they don't have the players for it. Middlesbrough pressed well against them but had a much higher defensive line, which they were able to exploit. We didn't give Luton any space in the final third (apart from that corner).

Ultimately, if we harbour any ambitions to be a top flight side, we need to be able to keep hold of the ball better than we did last season. There are times to be direct, times to just sit and have possession and calm things down. If we have the ball, the other team can't do anything with it. Some fans mention us being a Burnley, but their possession stats were far superior to ours last season. Hopefully we'll see an improvement with Pack and Ralls in midfield. There were times when we looked better for having short spells of possession and trying to have a bit more control over the game in the middle to help our defence. There's no harm in going long, the very best teams do it. Learning how to break teams down with some possession is going to be important if we get promoted again. Last season's possession stats were embarrassing even by the standards of teams who like to play direct. Stoke's stats under Pulis were never as bad as ours were last season.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

I don’t know, but I bet

a. We’ve won more by getting it forward quickly

b. We’ve given away less leads late on than Dave Jones’ super passers

---

Dave Jones’s super passers? They used to be just as bad as needlessly giving the ball away :hehe:

It doesn’t often cost us but when we lose it’s usually the reason why and it almost did Saturday.

Quote:

---

The main reason for our relegation last side was that we conceded too many goals. Statistically, the number of goals we scored and the number of wins should have been enough for survival, yet we simply didn't manage to hold onto enough draws when our defence was under pressure. Enjoying a bit more possession and being more capable of passing the ball a little (last season we had the worst possession and passing accuracy stats in the PL in a decade) helps relieve the pressure on our defence. Sometimes there's a case for calming things down instead of looking for the long bomb forward to try and regroup.

---

Put it much better than I could

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wolfmother

It wouldn’t be a pretty showing, no. Cardiff complete just above half of their passes, so that wouldn’t look good either. But that is what Warwick has put together. He only signed ONE player that can be regarded as talent for the future. The rest is horses for corpses. It’s all about himself, and he is not setting the club up for any progress. Wonder when fans will realize this.

---

Horses for WHAT??
That's up there with damp squid and escaped goat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bobh

Horses for WHAT??
That's up there with damp squid and escaped goat.

---

Yes, of you are stupid enough to think it’s a typo..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wolfmother

Yes, of you are stupid enough to think it’s a typo..

---

If course.

I think the same as those who take a logical approach to this issue :

Do we have a passing continental type side ( no)

Do we want one ( probaly not unelss we can score as well)

Can we afford one (oh no)

Did we like the Trollope passing era ( nope).

Will the silly named Warnockball , get us up ,or near that goal ( probably)

Has Warnock Ball worked (yes ,two years ago )

Could Warnock Ball have kept us up ( it nearly did , and barring injuries to Arta, Bamba and Patterson , a limping Gunnerson, I think we would still be there )

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by life on mars

I think the same as those who take a logical approach to this issue :

Do we have a passing continental type side ( no)

Do we want one ( probaly not unelss we can score as well)

Can we afford one (oh no)

Did we like the Trollope passing era ( nope).

Will the silly named Warnockball , get us up ,or near that goal ( probably)

Has Warnock Ball worked (yes ,two years ago )

Could Warnock Ball have kept us up ( it nearly did , and barring injuries to Arta, Bamba and Patterson , a limping Gunnerson, I think we would still be there )

---

Do you see any reason why our midfield shouldn't be able to pass the ball a little better and hold on to possession from time to time, instead of having the ball hoofed up field when we are under pressure?

I’ll just chip in and say I’m not keen on all this ‘Warnock ball’ or ‘Sarri ball’ nonsense. All sounds a load of balls to me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Do you see any reason why our midfield shouldn't be able to pass the ball a little better and hold on to possession from time to time, instead of having the ball hoofed up field when we are under pressure?

---

They can now.

They just aren’t playing that way.

I’d wager Pack, Vaulks and Ralls COULD keep the ball if they HAD to


**** me I’ve done that bus fella style typing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by life on mars

I think the same as those who take a logical approach to this issue :

Do we have a passing continental type side ( no)

Do we want one ( probaly not unelss we can score as well)

Can we afford one (oh no)

Did we like the Trollope passing era ( nope).

Will the silly named Warnockball , get us up ,or near that goal ( probably)

Has Warnock Ball worked (yes ,two years ago )

Could Warnock Ball have kept us up ( it nearly did , and barring injuries to Arta, Bamba and Patterson , a limping Gunnerson, I think we would still be there )

---

And some ridiculous refereeing decisions and the awful accident that befell our record signing 😕

TBH we outperformed the expectations of the majority of football fans

Hasn't Warnock given us what we secretly want? I can't imagine anything more desirable as a Cardiff City team than one that wins more than it loses and still gives us something to whinge about :hehe:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by surge

Hasn't Warnock given us what we secretly want? I can't imagine anything more desirable as a Cardiff City team than one that wins more than it loses and still gives us something to whinge about :hehe:

---

And when we lose there can be no question of anyone not giving their all.

Again not many fans of their clubs could say that.