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Re: Well, that was weird!
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Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
I've no idea. I couldn't tell you about the development of individual players. However, it appears to me that England and Wales currently have younger squads than has generally been the case throughout my 45 years following football, and most of the players in those squads also appear more comfortable with a football at their feet than has generally been the case.
Regardless, the main issue (for me at least) is that City currently have a manager who is seemingly opposed to the idea that young players should 'pass, pass, pass' and that philosophy manifests itself very clearly when his team plays.
I agree, and it is frustrating that at 3-0 and the game dead as mutton, we bring Hoilett on instead of giving Coxe a run out. England especially have a tremendous number of young players from South London, who are brought up playing football in cages or tight spaces, hence they've had to learn good footwork from a very early age. Sancho, Sterling, Loftus Cheek, Hudson-Odoi, Tomori, Abraham, Gomez and Rice are all from South London and are of a similar age. It is remarkable.
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Re: Well, that was weird!
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Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
I've no idea. I couldn't tell you about the development of individual players. However, it appears to me that England and Wales currently have younger squads than has generally been the case throughout my 45 years following football, and most of the players in those squads also appear more comfortable with a football at their feet than has generally been the case.
Regardless, the main issue (for me at least) is that City currently have a manager who is seemingly opposed to the idea that young players should 'pass, pass, pass' and that philosophy manifests itself very clearly when his team plays.
I agree with you 100%. The current system isn't perfect but it does present opportunities for young kids to promise. The terms 'pass pass pass' and 'it's a mans game' tell us everything we already know about Warnock.
I think the u23 league could be more competitive but you've got to use it right too.
The problem for us is that because we have no pathway for youngsters to get into our team then you have a clogged up conveyor belt.
I keep using Sion Spence as an example but I think it highlights a lot of fundamental issues at our club. Three seasons ago he was playing under 23 football (which is what it is there for) and he showed himself ready to make the next step and he was on the bench for the Huddersfield game for the last game of the season only for it to be pulled for insurance or something.
The following two seasons (yes he had a few injuries) but he was back in the u18s scoring goals for fun. The thing is, when we play these under 18 teams, they are likely to be fielding 15/16 year old players and even we have fielded a 14 year old this season.
So how are players who are 18 supposed to maximize their potential playing against kids two or three years younger who haven't even developed physically in most cases?
Most u23s are playing with 17 year old and Matondo (who is the same age as Spence) pretty much went straight into Man City's u23s where he was playing against the top premier and European players week in week out.
Swansea have fielded at least two 16 year olds in their u23s this season and results will inevitably suffer, but the long term player development is the only thing that is really important.
Brooks would definitely have played u23 football and so did Foden.
The only ones who will avoid this natural progression are those who it deemed more beneficial to go out on loan very young.
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Re: Well, that was weird!
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Originally Posted by
Pedro de la Rosa
I agree, and it is frustrating that at 3-0 and the game dead as mutton, we bring Hoilett on instead of giving Coxe a run out. England especially have a tremendous number of young players from South London, who are brought up playing football in cages or tight spaces, hence they've had to learn good footwork from a very early age. Sancho, Sterling, Loftus Cheek, Hudson-Odoi, Tomori, Abraham, Gomez and Rice are all from South London and are of a similar age. It is remarkable.
I saw a lengthy feature on the cages on Soccer Saturday towards the end of last season. It's an incredible story. Crystal Palace have been a particular beneficiary, although their staff have apparently done a lot of scouting and coaching work in that area too.
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Re: Well, that was weird!
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Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
I saw a lengthy feature on the cages on Soccer Saturday towards the end of last season. It's an incredible story. Crystal Palace have been a particular beneficiary, although their staff have apparently done a lot of scouting and coaching work in that area too.
I forgot Wan Bissaka and Zaha, as he's Ivorian, as well as players like Victor Moses and Clyne. The last three were blooded by a certain N. Warnock. Out of necessity but it is striking how far he's moved away from that!
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Re: Well, that was weird!
In fairness with the under 23 comment I think he means it's not like playing a first team game more like a friendly. In that case though why not loan out players?
I think Warnock is a bit backwards with his view to how football is played but can understand where he's coming from with that comment.
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Re: Well, that was weird!
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Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
In fairness with the under 23 comment I think he means it's not like playing a first team game more like a friendly. In that case though why not loan out players?
I think Warnock is a bit backwards with his view to how football is played but can understand where he's coming from with that comment.
This season the loans have tended to involve players who are still available for the Academy side going out to League of Wales sides and I think that is definitely better for the players concerned than playing for the under 23s. Goalkeeper George Ratcliffe is getting rave reviews at Barry who, every time I look, seem to be winning 1-0 and many of the older members of last season's league winning side appear to be playing every week in a league where the standard among the top sides is pretty high I reckon- I saw a video of Dan Griffiths scoring a good goal for Pen y Bont on here recently and Sion Spence was involved in the creation of a fine goal for Barry.
It'll be interesting to see what the club see as the next step for these players when they return. In the case of someone like Ratcliffe, I don't see why he couldn't become third choice at the club if one of our three senior keepers was to leave.
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Re: Well, that was weird!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
I've no idea. I couldn't tell you about the development of individual players. However, it appears to me that England and Wales currently have younger squads than has generally been the case throughout my 45 years following football, and most of the players in those squads also appear more comfortable with a football at their feet than has generally been the case.
Regardless, the main issue (for me at least) is that City currently have a manager who is seemingly opposed to the idea that young players should 'pass, pass, pass' and that philosophy manifests itself very clearly when his team plays.
I was interested to hear Nathan Blake talking about Wednesday's game on the Wales Online podcast he does. He said he heard supporters saying in the second half that City should keep the ball for a while and take the heat out of the game (which is something I find myself wishing the team would do in virtually every game I watch!), but Blakey thinks that we can't do that and said that it needs a lot of work on the training pitch to make a side proficient in that sort of game (the inference being that this is something we do not do for things like ball retention of course). While I take his point that we wouldn't compare that well to other sides in that part of the game, I keep on thinking about that goal we scored against Brighton down here last season when we put together a twenty odd pass move involving all of our outfield players which resulted in our equalising goal - it would be fascinating to know what the reaction to that goal was among our manager and his coaching staff!
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Re: Well, that was weird!
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Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
I was interested to hear Nathan Blake talking about Wednesday's game on the Wales Online podcast he does. He said he heard supporters saying in the second half that City should keep the ball for a while and take the heat out of the game (which is something I find myself wishing the team would do in virtually every game I watch!), but Blakey thinks that we can't do that and said that it needs a lot of work on the training pitch to make a side proficient in that sort of game (the inference being that this is something we do not do for things like ball retention of course). While I take his point that we wouldn't compare that well to other sides in that part of the game, I keep on thinking about that goal we scored against Brighton down here last season when we put together a twenty odd pass move involving all of our outfield players which resulted in our equalising goal - it would be fascinating to know what the reaction to that goal was among our manager and his coaching staff!
Not sure if this is in the same vein, but in the summer you may recall me posting about going to see a highland league match. In the first half I stood with my boy behind the dugouts. Someone either management or coach of Fraserburgh was yelling every instruction for every pass, cross, shot, tackle, you name it. Nothing was ever good enough for him and he spent almost as much time shouting abuse at the players for not doing what they were told. Straight after Fort William equalised and he'd kicked all the drinks bottles around the dugout, Fraserburgh went on the attack. He gave their main striker a roasting for playing the wrong ball, wrong angle of run, not doing this or that, and as he called him something unpronouncable, this striker lobbed the keeper from 25 yards right into the top corner. Super finish. This coach, or whoever he was, barely raised a smile.
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Re: Well, that was weird!
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Originally Posted by
The Hooded Claw
How so? TOBW merely points out that despite barely having the ball, City somehow won 3-0.
It’s a widely held summation of the game and it’s his opinion that it wasn’t entertaining to watch.
You have no right to infer that people such as him are somehow not behind the team and are not entitled to criticise.
Not all of us are Warnock lemmings!
Never seen him get behind the team really and so I shouldn't be surprised if he finds something to complain about in a 3-0 victory.
This is a weird forum for that actually . It's supposed to be a supporters forum but a handful of people who don't seem to understand how hard it is to compete at this level dominate it with negative crap about the club and stupid impractical nonsense about how they'd do it.
I couldn't understand how that could happen because I've never seen a club forum be so anti the club it's about, then I realised that they just try to bully anyone outside their little circle of negativity, and normal people probably just give up and leave .
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Re: Well, that was weird!
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Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
I couldn't understand how that could happen because I've never seen a club forum be so anti the club it's about, then I realised that they just try to bully anyone outside their little circle of negativity, and normal people probably just give up and leave .
Pray tell, how many club forums have you regularly posted on and read and can base this opinion on?
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Re: Well, that was weird!
I've read a lot of them although I haven't necessarily posted. They usually give their teams a LOT of support even when things aren't going well.
It's obvious though that a supporters forum usually contains supporters
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Re: Well, that was weird!
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Originally Posted by
LeningradCowboy
We played 4-3-3 at Hull and had over 50% possession. Yesterday we reverted to 4-2-3-1 because Ralls was injured and had less than 30% possession. I don't think it's entirely coincidental.
Missed Ralls with and without the ball yesterday.
I actually thought Bacuna was poor, but partly because Ralls wasn’t there constantly looking for the pass off him
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Re: Well, that was weird!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Hooded Claw
How so? TOBW merely points out that despite barely having the ball, City somehow won 3-0.
It’s a widely held summation of the game and it’s his opinion that it wasn’t entertaining to watch.
You have no right to infer that people such as him are somehow not behind the team and are not entitled to criticise.
Not all of us are Warnock lemmings!
I've got Ronnie Bird on ignore, but I read his message when you quoted it. Perhaps someone could tell him that I will not be able to do any work today on the Cardiff City book I'm writing as a follow up to the one I co wrote six years ago because I will be going down to Cardiff to watch the City's under 18s play Charlton (kick off 12.30 if anyone else is interested). It will be the fifth out of six home games for the Under 18s and Under 23s I've attended this season and my report on it will be on the Cardiff City blog I've been producing for the last ten years for anyone to read if they want to. I've just checked and there is a little bit of work I need to do in my purely voluntary role of joint membership secretary of the Cardiff City Supporters' Trust in their office at the Stadium which I'll get done before the game - just imagine what Cardiff City related stuff I'd be doing if I didn't hate them so much!
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Re: Well, that was weird!
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Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
And yet both England and Wales currently have squads filled with talented young footballers who are very comfortable on the ball. As I said previously, there's clearly a balance. The current system no doubt has its flaws, but it's producing some excellent players, so it's obviously not a complete waste of time.
And Wales are far worse than they were a couple of years back when they didn’t have these ‘talented youngsters’ but workers like Edwards , Gunter and Ledley
Lawrence is a fraud for a start. Odd spectacular goal, but gets knocked off the ball like a 9-year old.
The basics of football is about knowing what to do without it as well as the pretty stuff and it seems to me this is being ignored by a lot of modern coaches
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Re: Well, that was weird!
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Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
I've read a lot of them although I haven't necessarily posted. They usually give their teams a LOT of support even when things aren't going well.
It's obvious though that a supporters forum usually contains supporters
I very often go on other club’s forums pre & post matches and I’ve very often read posts that have slaughtered their respective teams, forums tend to have a mix and match of all sorts, this one is no different.
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Re: Well, that was weird!
Ignore him bob he’s logging into his second account to criticise because he’s too much of a snowflake to do it with his normal account.
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Re: Well, that was weird!
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Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
This season the loans have tended to involve players who are still available for the Academy side going out to League of Wales sides and I think that is definitely better for the players concerned than playing for the under 23s. Goalkeeper George Ratcliffe is getting rave reviews at Barry who, every time I look, seem to be winning 1-0 and many of the older members of last season's league winning side appear to be playing every week in a league where the standard among the top sides is pretty high I reckon- I saw a video of Dan Griffiths scoring a good goal for Pen y Bont on here recently and Sion Spence was involved in the creation of a fine goal for Barry.
It'll be interesting to see what the club see as the next step for these players when they return. In the case of someone like Ratcliffe, I don't see why he couldn't become third choice at the club if one of our three senior keepers was to leave.
I think the Ratcliffe loan is maybe an example where it might work, he’s getting plenty of practice st Barry in front of decent crowds and performing superbly, whilst being able to go home to his family every night.
Might be different for outfield players.
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Re: Well, that was weird!
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Originally Posted by
rudy gestede
Ignore him bob he’s logging into his second account to criticise because he’s too much of a snowflake to do it with his normal account.
I stopped posting for a while because of stuff like this.
Let's stop being polite since we're talking about your little bullying clique driving people away from here and - if you had your way - the club. Also I've been polite and you don't understand it.
You are a liar, a coward and a troll. Address people's posts and don't try and marginalise them personally with your lies and dishonest tactics.
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Re: Well, that was weird!
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Originally Posted by
jon1959
I'm sure Neil Warnock said a few weeks back that Ciaron Brown is now seen as the left back cover in the squad. It was when he was asked about Brown's debut for Northern Ireland.
He may turn out to be a star, but for now a player just out of the u23s who spent most of the last few years as a centre back is the cover and challenge to Joe Bennett. That doesn't shout squad depth!
But isn't that the closest thing we have to Warnock bringing in youth players? We have a full international at LB cover and a player reportedly scouted by Man City at RB cover which is usually a good sign.
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Re: Well, that was weird!
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Originally Posted by
surge
But isn't that the closest thing we have to Warnock bringing in youth players? We have a full international at LB cover and a player reportedly scouted by Man City at RB cover which is usually a good sign.
I'm all for the club bringing through younger players from the u23s, and I was pleased to see Coxe on the bench against QPR (even if that was more to do with meeting the home-grown rule). But none of the 4 younger players who were involved in the North American pre-season have been eased into the team. There were chances last season to give a few some game time, and Coxe could have been brought on last time out when we were 3 up.
Despite what Neil Warnock said about Ciaron Brown we are likely to see Curtis Nelson as the sole defensive cover in the matchday squad once Ralls is back - with Coxe, Brown, Bolger, Waite or others kicking around in the u23s, maybe getting the odd friendly against a Welsh league team, and hoping for a few games when the FA Cup starts. Unless there are injuries or a ban for Bennett or Peltier (sadly Jazz is always likely to be injured), in which case maybe there will be a chance for one of them.
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Re: Well, that was weird!
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Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
This season the loans have tended to involve players who are still available for the Academy side going out to League of Wales sides and I think that is definitely better for the players concerned than playing for the under 23s. Goalkeeper George Ratcliffe is getting rave reviews at Barry who, every time I look, seem to be winning 1-0 and many of the older members of last season's league winning side appear to be playing every week in a league where the standard among the top sides is pretty high I reckon- I saw a video of Dan Griffiths scoring a good goal for Pen y Bont on here recently and Sion Spence was involved in the creation of a fine goal for Barry.
It'll be interesting to see what the club see as the next step for these players when they return. In the case of someone like Ratcliffe, I don't see why he couldn't become third choice at the club if one of our three senior keepers was to leave.
Four senior keepers!
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Re: Well, that was weird!
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Originally Posted by
Lawnmower
I think the Ratcliffe loan is maybe an example where it might work, he’s getting plenty of practice st Barry in front of decent crowds and performing superbly, whilst being able to go home to his family every night.
Might be different for outfield players.
Why? Aren't outfield players allowed to go home to their families at night? :hehe: (sorry, only messing!)
