Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?

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Originally Posted by David Vincent

Some of you on here are living in a fool's paradise. It could be something to do with our drug culture. Even our top politicians have now been exposed as cokeheads.

I've just had a look at the official figures and even they show that no one works in 1 in 6 households in the UK. Nearly 25% of the working age population is economically inactive. That figure includes many students who are pushed into useless courses by a Government to disguise the fact that there are no jobs for them. A third of the economically active are in part-time jobs. In reality they are more or less unemployed. Many of those in full-time employment will be on zero hours contracts and on a minimum wage. Many of the jobs have been de-skilled. The work will be repetitive soul-destroying call center type jobs.

Someone in The Times last week - I think it was the guy in charge of Tata - said the Uk had given up on manufacturing. He pointed out that one of our biggest exports is now scrap metal. The whole country has been asset stripped. I haven't met anyone who makes anything for many years.

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I work in manufacturing

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Originally Posted by David Vincent

Some of you on here are living in a fool's paradise. It could be something to do with our drug culture. Even our top politicians have now been exposed as cokeheads.

I've just had a look at the official figures and even they show that no one works in 1 in 6 households in the UK. Nearly 25% of the working age population is economically inactive. That figure includes many students who are pushed into useless courses by a Government to disguise the fact that there are no jobs for them. A third of the economically active are in part-time jobs. In reality they are more or less unemployed. Many of those in full-time employment will be on zero hours contracts and on a minimum wage. Many of the jobs have been de-skilled. The work will be repetitive soul-destroying call center type jobs.

Someone in The Times last week - I think it was the guy in charge of Tata - said the Uk had given up on manufacturing. He pointed out that one of our biggest exports is now scrap metal. The whole country has been asset stripped. I haven't met anyone who makes anything for many years.

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I have honestly never read such rubbish in my whole life.

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Originally Posted by David Vincent

Some of you on here are living in a fool's paradise. It could be something to do with our drug culture. Even our top politicians have now been exposed as cokeheads.

I've just had a look at the official figures and even they show that no one works in 1 in 6 households in the UK. Nearly 25% of the working age population is economically inactive. That figure includes many students who are pushed into useless courses by a Government to disguise the fact that there are no jobs for them. A third of the economically active are in part-time jobs. In reality they are more or less unemployed. Many of those in full-time employment will be on zero hours contracts and on a minimum wage. Many of the jobs have been de-skilled. The work will be repetitive soul-destroying call center type jobs.

Someone in The Times last week - I think it was the guy in charge of Tata - said the Uk had given up on manufacturing. He pointed out that one of our biggest exports is now scrap metal. The whole country has been asset stripped. I haven't met anyone who makes anything for many years.

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I bet you’re fun at parties Dai

Good riddance!

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

I have honestly never read such rubbish in my whole life.

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Yes you have. You read my posts!
I now feel insulted!!

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Originally Posted by blue matt

I know this will split opinion on here

BUT

The guy is one sick person and maybe doesnt deserve to be alive


https://uk.news.yahoo.com/richard-hu...101332342.html


He was given 22 life sentences in 2016 after he admitted 71 charges of sexual abuse of children aged between six months and 12 years.

If you admit crimes like this and are in good sane mind, should the death sentence return ? ? ?

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yep

Those who are calling for the death penalty should have their names recorded as the people who "push the button". It probably won't surprise many that when the death penalty was part of UK legal system the people who took on that role were not the most savoury characters and that is the gang you'd be joining.

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Originally Posted by Nelsonca61

It's a no for me.

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And a big juicy NO from me.

Capital punishment is both barbaric and ineffective.
Whilst our methods of punishment and/or rehabilitation needed overhauling reintroducing the gallows is a complete no go for me.

Resembling revenge, it doesn't appear to have any provable benefits. People are naive if they want to hand the state the legal mandate to kill when they please.

So the vast majority on here are dead against (excuse the pun) the death penalty.
I am among that no. as well.
What I am for though in these cases like Sutcliffe, Huntley, Hindley, Brady etc is life in a small cell, with a toilet in it, and basic food like bread and water., with absolutely no privileges.
Anyone disagree with this?

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

So the vast majority on here are dead against (excuse the pun) the death penalty.
I am among that no. as well.
What I am for though in these cases like Sutcliffe, Huntley, Hindley, Brady etc is life in a small cell, with a toilet in it, and basic food like bread and water., with absolutely no privileges.
Anyone disagree with this?

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Nope, I agree.
I believe that’s a fate worse than death. Death is an easy way out for those sickos.

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

So the vast majority on here are dead against (excuse the pun) the death penalty.
I am among that no. as well.
What I am for though in these cases like Sutcliffe, Huntley, Hindley, Brady etc is life in a small cell, with a toilet in it, and basic food like bread and water., with absolutely no privileges.
Anyone disagree with this?

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I totally agree.

Going to prison is supposed to be a punishment and be part of a criminal's rehabilitation. It's my opinion that some people simply cannot be rehabilitated (like the one's that you've named) and then rejoin society. They shouldn't face the death penalty, but made to live with the consequences of their actions every minute of every day instead.

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

So the vast majority on here are dead against (excuse the pun) the death penalty.
I am among that no. as well.
What I am for though in these cases like Sutcliffe, Huntley, Hindley, Brady etc is life in a small cell, with a toilet in it, and basic food like bread and water., with absolutely no privileges.
Anyone disagree with this?

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That is a soft punishment compared to taking someone's life away. It is wrong not to kill them.

There are three main groups in the world – bad people, good people who think bad people are not really bad and good people who know bad people are bad. Society is now under the control of the first two groups. The bad people are being protected by the do-gooders. Christianity is a big part of the problem. Every clear thinking person knows that The Parable of the Labourers in the Vineyard is nonsense. Richard in that great film Dead Man’s Shoes summed it up perfectly : “God will forgive them. He'll forgive them and allow them into Heaven. I can't live with that.”

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Originally Posted by David Vincent

That is a soft punishment compared to taking someone's life away. It is wrong not to kill them.

There are three main groups in the world – bad people, good people who think bad people are not really bad and good people who know bad people are bad. Society is now under the control of the first two groups. The bad people are being protected by the do-gooders. Christianity is a big part of the problem. Every clear thinking person knows that The Parable of the Labourers in the Vineyard is nonsense. Richard in that great film Dead Man’s Shoes summed it up perfectly : “God will forgive them. He'll forgive them and allow them into Heaven. I can't live with that.”

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I had this bizarre idea in my head that Christianity in all it's forms has a greater foothold in the death penalty friendly US than in the UK but don't let that stand in the way of your theory.

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Originally Posted by David Vincent

That is a soft punishment compared to taking someone's life away. It is wrong not to kill them.

There are three main groups in the world – bad people, good people who think bad people are not really bad and good people who know bad people are bad. Society is now under the control of the first two groups. The bad people are being protected by the do-gooders. Christianity is a big part of the problem. Every clear thinking person knows that The Parable of the Labourers in the Vineyard is nonsense. Richard in that great film Dead Man’s Shoes summed it up perfectly : “God will forgive them. He'll forgive them and allow them into Heaven. I can't live with that.”

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Killing them isn’t a punishment for some of these sickos though. Once they’re dead, they can’t feel anything, done. Who will it benefit?
Being in prison for 40/50/60 years, looking at the same 4 walls for the rest of your life is a far bigger punishment I find and they would probably prefer death.

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

So the vast majority on here are dead against (excuse the pun) the death penalty.
I am among that no. as well.
What I am for though in these cases like Sutcliffe, Huntley, Hindley, Brady etc is life in a small cell, with a toilet in it, and basic food like bread and water., with absolutely no privileges.
Anyone disagree with this?

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No hope of rehabilitation, I would probably make it a tad more hospitable but I am basically on board.

I would have it back.

It wont ever happen though.

One of the issues you have is if you are capable of this stuff you surely have mental problems. Its then having to work out to what cappacity.


I wouldn't lose any sleep over criminals being killed

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Originally Posted by David Vincent

That is a soft punishment compared to taking someone's life away. It is wrong not to kill them.

There are three main groups in the world – bad people, good people who think bad people are not really bad and good people who know bad people are bad. Society is now under the control of the first two groups. The bad people are being protected by the do-gooders. Christianity is a big part of the problem. Every clear thinking person knows that The Parable of the Labourers in the Vineyard is nonsense. Richard in that great film Dead Man’s Shoes summed it up perfectly : “God will forgive them. He'll forgive them and allow them into Heaven. I can't live with that.”

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Unless you believe in a literal hell how is being killed worse than being kept locked up for your whole life? For me the death penalty isn't really a bad punishment because you can't experience it.

I'm all for the very worst being locked up in a cell with no comforts as WT has stated. That for me is a much worse punishment.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

Unless you believe in a literal hell how is being killed worse than being kept locked up for your whole life? For me the death penalty isn't really a bad punishment because you can't experience it.

I'm all for the very worst being locked up in a cell with no comforts as WT has stated. That for me is a much worse punishment.

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If life in prison was worse than death then most lifers would kill themselves. The fact that they don't is proof that death is a worse punishment.

There is an interesting case going on at the moment which exposes the hypocrisy of our government. They are blaming Trump for not extraditing the American base car driver and yet we are protecting two Indian/British people from being tried for murder in India. The crime they are accused of is not uncommon in some parts of the world. Evil people are adopting orphans for the sole purpose of insuring them and then killing them for the insurance payout. Anyone who thinks these murderers do not deserve death is mentally unbalanced. Yes, I'm looking at some of you nutjobs on here. Imagine doing this to poor orphans who have already suffered so much.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/india-extr...121219294.html

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Originally Posted by David Vincent

If life in prison was worse than death then most lifers would kill themselves. The fact that they don't is proof that death is a worse punishment.

There is an interesting case going on at the moment which exposes the hypocrisy of our government. They are blaming Trump for not extraditing the American base car driver and yet we are protecting two Indian/British people from being tried for murder in India. The crime they are accused of is not uncommon in some parts of the world. Evil people are adopting orphans for the sole purpose of insuring them and then killing them for the insurance payout. Anyone who thinks these murderers do not deserve death is mentally unbalanced. Yes, I'm looking at some of you nutjobs on here. Imagine doing this to poor orphans who have already suffered so much.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/india-extr...121219294.html

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Not heard of that one. Pack them off.

We must have some Americans we can trade for the Dunn killer. Or is it a case of they say send them back here and we listen to them straight away. India not so much.

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Originally Posted by David Vincent

If life in prison was worse than death then most lifers would kill themselves. The fact that they don't is proof that death is a worse punishment.

There is an interesting case going on at the moment which exposes the hypocrisy of our government. They are blaming Trump for not extraditing the American base car driver and yet we are protecting two Indian/British people from being tried for murder in India. The crime they are accused of is not uncommon in some parts of the world. Evil people are adopting orphans for the sole purpose of insuring them and then killing them for the insurance payout. Anyone who thinks these murderers do not deserve death is mentally unbalanced. Yes, I'm looking at some of you nutjobs on here. Imagine doing this to poor orphans who have already suffered so much.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/india-extr...121219294.html

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You calling someonelse a 'nutjob' is quite astounding. :hehe:

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Originally Posted by David Vincent

If life in prison was worse than death then most lifers would kill themselves. The fact that they don't is proof that death is a worse punishment.

There is an interesting case going on at the moment which exposes the hypocrisy of our government. They are blaming Trump for not extraditing the American base car driver and yet we are protecting two Indian/British people from being tried for murder in India. The crime they are accused of is not uncommon in some parts of the world. Evil people are adopting orphans for the sole purpose of insuring them and then killing them for the insurance payout. Anyone who thinks these murderers do not deserve death is mentally unbalanced. Yes, I'm looking at some of you nutjobs on here. Imagine doing this to poor orphans who have already suffered so much.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/india-extr...121219294.html

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Over 140 countries in the world don't have the death penalty and India has executed 4 people in the last 20 years. There seem to be an awful lot of unbalanced nutjobs out there!

For those in favour, what crimes should be punished by the death penalty then? Where do we draw the line?

The fixation by some to make the worst possible punishment, is strange to me.
Surely what everyone wants is the safest possible country, and there is a lot of evidence that this isn't achieved by the death penalty.
I certainly wouldn't want a government who were as fixated on vengeance

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

For those in favour, what crimes should be punished by the death penalty then? Where do we draw the line?

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It is easy. To have justice the punishment must be as great as the crime. You wouldn't kill people for theft because that punishment is far greater than the crime.

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Originally Posted by David Vincent

It is easy. To have justice the punishment must be as great as the crime. You wouldn't kill people for theft because that punishment is far greater than the crime.

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So only killing people then?

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Originally Posted by Rjk

The fixation by some to make the worst possible punishment, is strange to me.
Surely what everyone wants is the safest possible country, and there is a lot of evidence that this isn't achieved by the death penalty.
I certainly wouldn't want a government who were as fixated on vengeance

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What you call vengeance many people call justice. I suppose you are one of those forgive and forget types. That's easy when you are not a victim yourself.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

For those in favour, what crimes should be punished by the death penalty then? Where do we draw the line?

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Thats far too general.

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Originally Posted by David Vincent

It is easy. To have justice the punishment must be as great as the crime. You wouldn't kill people for theft because that punishment is far greater than the crime.

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What if you get into an altercation with someone and you feel a bit threatened and lash out and they fall and hit their head on the ground and die, do you get a death sentence?

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

Thats far too general.

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That's the point, what if someone is fighting and kills someone by accident? What if someone is speeding and kills someone? Does he want all rape included? Or just when kids are involved?

And who's drawing this line? The current Government? Would you trust them to select the "right" crimes?

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

That's the point, what if someone is fighting and kills someone by accident? What if someone is speeding and kills someone? Does he want all rape included? Or just when kids are involved?

And who's drawing this line? The current Government? Would you trust them to select the "right" crimes?

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Then you have to look at it as an individual case. The same crimes are not punishable by the same sentences at the moment are they? Theres not set punishments for set crimes. There's guidelines and the judge decides.

So you'd be happy for a judge to decide if something is worth killing someone for?

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Originally Posted by delmbox

What if you get into an altercation with someone and you feel a bit threatened and lash out and they fall and hit their head on the ground and die, do you get a death sentence?

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The courts and the police know what is murder and what is manslaughter or killing in self-defence.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

So you'd be happy for a judge to decide if something is worth killing someone for?

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Someone has got to make a decision about everything.

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Originally Posted by David Vincent

The courts and the police know what is murder and what is manslaughter or killing in self-defence.

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The courts and police are not infallible, what if the other guy had a mate with him who said that you just hit him out of nowhere, and the jury believed his word against yours?

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Originally Posted by delmbox

The courts and police are not infallible, what if the other guy had a mate with him who said that you just hit him out of nowhere, and the jury believed his word against yours?

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Whether murderers deserve death is a separate question to how do we know if someone is guilty of murder. We don't have a good legal system and we don't know for certain if anyone is really guilty of any crime. But we still have to arrest and punish people.

We don't have perfect knowledge. I was once accused of something I didn't do. It wasn't anything to do with the police but if it had gone before a judge and a jury they would never have believed me. If I just had the facts of the incident I would never have believed my explanation. It was ridiculous but it was also true. It caused me some trouble at the time but it is all long ago and forgotten by everyone except myself. If the accusation had been murder I would have gone to gallows laughing at the bizarreness of it. I would have accepted that the judge and the jury had made the correct decision given the facts. We live in a world where injustice is bound to happen. The best we can do is find the wisest judges and juries. Maybe we should have IQ restrictions on who can sit in judge of us.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

So you'd be happy for a judge to decide if something is worth killing someone for?

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Absolutely. Im more than happy for a judge to decide someone of the ilk of the Ian Huntleys and Mick Philpotts of this world to be killed for the crimes they commited.

Im not endorsing we start killing every petty criminal but the ones who have been locked away for life because their crimes are deemed so bad. Get rid of them. Serves no purpose to pay to keep them alive.
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Did the children Mick Philpott killed, his own children, get a say in wether they were worth killing or not?

Someone killed my child /grandchild or abused them , or blew up innocent people in the name of some crap ideal , I would gladly kill them or watch them die in the hands of a justice system .

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Someone killed my child /grandchild or abused them , or blew up innocent people in the name of some crap ideal , I would gladly kill them or watch them die in the hands of a justice system .

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That's why we don't let victims choose the punishment because it isn't justice. If someone hurt my family I wouldn't be bothered if they were killed but that wouldn''t be just.