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I was just stating my personal experience of our care system.
It is crazy that despite a GP, Psychiatrist & hospital consultant all agreeing that someone needs professional medical care & can no way be in their own home, even with a family member living with them to look after them 24/7 that a council social services assessor knows better & can over rule them.
Quite. I'd have made a similar point had I rose earlier. Must say overweight doctors have been hard to spot during infrequent hospital visits down the years but lard arsed nurses were anything but. It's not a South Wales phenomenon according to this article: NURSES BIG ISSUE Six out of 10 nurses are overweight, a study found - https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/506846...ing-hospitals/Quote:
Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish
Eric, you have the sting of a full bee. Despite being an idiot I know a little about alcoholism. No one wakes up one morning and finds out they have alcoholism. As they slide into it they realise they are becoming alcoholics. They could choose not to drink for quite a time before they reach the stage where they need to drink every day but they choose not to stop. They often are dealing with other problems so they put their drinking problem on the back-burner. Even when they are full blown alcoholics they can choose to stop. It is not a disease like having measles where you can't choose not to have it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
The answer to your question is "yes the doctor has chosen to do so".
It's like a Carry On film where all the nurses are played by Hattie Jaques.Quote:
Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.
They have the power to say “I want to stop” but as for just simply choosing to stop? Not as basic as you make out.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Vincent
There's a fly is enjoying itself on the top of a venus fly trap. He happens to look down and sees ten flies struggling to get back up. It looks further down and sees 10 more flies, but these flies are lifeless.Quote:
Originally Posted by dembethewarrior
"Poor sods" he thinks. A little while later, he thinks to himself, "I'm enjoying myself here but I should really stop now. I have other things to do....but a few more minutes won't harm".
As he's about to set off, he looks up and notices flies that weren't there before. "Poor bugger" he hears one of them say.
He then has the stark realisation that he has unnoticeably slid down and he too is slowly being eaten by the plant, just as the "poor sods" were from earlier.
Basically what happened to my auntie and uncle. It happened over a period of years.Quote:
Originally Posted by B. Oddie
To give up any addiction you first have to decide to give up. You are not going to give up by accident. For example, if you are an alcoholic you are not going to stop drinking because you forget to go to the pub. You have to choose to stop. Before making that choice you have to tell yourself that you are a free person with free choice. If you see yourself as a passive victim of circumstances then you will not change. I've joked about overweight people but they are also addicted just like alcoholics and druggies. There is a good lecture about this in the following link. By the way, I think the guy giving the lecture is over 60. It shows you what a vegan diet and exercise can do for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by dembethewarrior
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VWi6dXCT7I
Yeah why don't all addicts just decide to stop!? :hehe:
There is a difference between someone who drinks too much , is a binge drinker or is an alcoholicQuote:
Originally Posted by David Vincent
The latter is very much an illness and requires expert medical attention
Many alcoholic women have been sexually abused as children or beaten up by their partners , they didn't choose to self medicate , they had no other way out
They got eaten by a plant ?Quote:
Originally Posted by dembethewarrior
Are you able to cure homosexuals as well ? You should do public speaking on this matter , you clearly have expertiseQuote:
Originally Posted by David Vincent
Why don't you answer your own question?Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue
It is a continuum and that is why it is not a disease like measles which you either have or you haven't. Calling it an illness takes some of the responsibility away from addicts. It makes them think they've got something like measles which they can't do anything about themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
I think you will find it's an addiction and an illnessQuote:
Originally Posted by David Vincent
Someone who drinks seven pints every saturday night and gets into a fight and works nine to five is a pain in the arse
The abused woman who hides behind the curtains drinking gin to hide her pain is self medicating an illness
Because if a heroin addict just stopped without expert medical help he or she could die from a seizureQuote:
Originally Posted by David Vincent
Addiction is an illness , one that can have consequences for society and the individual , but an illness nonetheless
The weak-minded consciously volunteer to become addicts.
There's alleged addicts of all kinds out there. Gambling ones have become quite trendy. Then there's those debt heads who can't stop spending someone else's dough. As previously mentioned, gluttonous fatties are everywhere. Most seem to have an excuse for their rubbish choices such as a traumatic childhood experience when after just one week of ownership someone swiped their bicycle or their dog had fleas and their constant scratching made them sad.
It seems none of the druggies or alkies sought solace in music or exercise, etc, they headed straight for a crack pipe or cans of Carlsberg Special Brew.
Eminent psychiatrists think that addiction is an illness not a lifestyle choiceQuote:
Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.
I will go with what they say
The new world wants others to fix thier problems or blame others for the very same problems, there is a famous saying "it comes from within " trouble with todays world its it's easier not to fix thier issues as others are continually making exuses for them , or blaming someone or someting for thier predicament.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Vincent
Outside of this is the issue of mental health, and that is what needs support and resolution.
A lot of addicts whether that be drugs , alcohol or food have serious undiagnosed mental health problems , telling people like this to pray , be strong , pull yourself together , eat healthily etc is a complete waste of timeQuote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
I'm an addict. Have been for donkey's years and am determined to remain one because I enjoy my addiction. My vice is tobacco. Each morning I could represent Britain at coughing. My ambition is to cough all through the night. The only way to do so is to puff more. Revenue from tobacco taxes is a great earner for .gov. I know a fraction goes to our dear Queen via her Sovereign Grant payment. Some of that is spent on filling the grub dishes of her corgis. By ensuring I'm enveloped in yet denser clouds of smoke I hope she'll occasionally be able to treat her furry companions to something better than that Pedigree Chum shite.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
The Sassoon family were the 19th century equivalent of the Sackler family. Their business was getting people addicted to drugs. When Mao came to power there were 20 million drug addicts in China. This was mainly thanks to the Sassoon family and the British Government. It didn’t take long for Mao to cure the drug problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
The psychiatrist Theodore Dalrymple explained it very well :
"Mao Tse-tung was by far the greatest therapist of drug addiction in world history. He threatened to execute opium addicts if they didn’t give up. Threats to murder were about the only utterances of Mao’s that could be believed, and 20 million addicts duly gave up."
You can get addicted to anything. If you are addicted to posting on this site does that mean you are suffering from an illness? If you looked at my link you can see that you can get addicted to various foods. Are these addicts ill? Of course not. Addiction is not an illness in the same sense that measles is an illness. Most of those Chinese addicts gave up without "expert medical help".
Both my parents clocked out years before their projected life expectancy number came up because of their addictions: old girl 5 years earlier because of smoking and COPD; old man nearly 20 years premature due to grog and a knackered liver. Both knew they'd peg out early but weren't prepared to change and made no effort to do so. I respected their choices and gave up cajoling them to do so. Like me, they also enjoyed their poison.
I don't know any drug addicts but suspect they are of the same mindset.
Organ you are right of course, but if you are going to start on about your vices and addictions then keep it clean. Don't forget there are children on this board and also many posters with the minds of children.
He's not but if you want to believe that a heroin addict can just quit without medical help and intervention you are living in la la landQuote:
Originally Posted by David Vincent
Maybe if they change to semi skimmed milk I hear you say ?
I wonder how many of them died ? Heart attacks seizures psychotic episodes etcQuote:
Originally Posted by David Vincent
For as long as their desire to remain the same is stronger than it is to reform then they won't. As Dai pointed out, the prospect of taking a bullet between the eyes proved a remarkably powerful motivator for millions of Chinese to travel the cold turkey route absent of anyone fussing over them.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
I will ask you thenQuote:
Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.
How many of them died , killed themselves as a result of this medical experiment
Why is mental health a different issue? How many addicts do you know with good mental health?Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
Until it impacts on you personally most people don"t realise how bad social care now is in this country.
Tis very true , it used to be that local authorities had care homes for the vulnerable , now they are mostly private and the owners take in massive profitQuote:
Originally Posted by headlight
My old man was in one in barry , it was filthy and the only hoist they had was broken
We eventually found one nearer to our home near bridgend which was better but still had its faults and was 800 quid a week
Now my old dear has mobility problems after coming out of hospital and after six weeks with the local council care team who have been coming in and waking her up , showerwe need ing her , making her breakfast and doing her shopping they contract it out to a private care firm and the difference in quality of care is staggering ......they turn up late , forget to open her curtains and leave early ......and the council are paying this firm for the pleasure of doing something they do really well , all to save money because central government says so
Luckily we can get as much care as we need in wales up to a cap of £90 per week , god knows what it's like in England
You can see why wales is voting Tory now, the levels of ignorance, stupidity and lack of empathy in this thread are staggering.
Some of you have spent your whole lives living in a bubble and seem to have no idea how the wider world works. It’s only going to get worse too.
It would have all been covered up too. If anyone believes that 20 million heroin addicts just gave up with zero consequences because they Chinese government reported it I’ve got some magic beans for them to buy.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
Like I said in my previous post..Quote:
Originally Posted by David Vincent
Theodore Dalrymple was a prison psychiatrist who dealt with thousands of addicts. In this clip he says the physical effects of giving up heroin are "trivial".Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MTmpbVgn7s
This is a quote from a summary of his book “Junk Medicine: Doctors, Lies and the Addiction Bureaucracy” :
"Almost everything you know about heroin addiction is wrong. Not only is it wrong, but it is obviously wrong. Heroin is not highly addictive; withdrawal from it is not medically serious; addicts do not become criminals to feed their habit; addicts do not need any medical assistance to stop taking heroin; and contrary to received wisdom, heroin addiction most certainly IS a moral or spiritual problem."
Here's a review of the book :
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...ut-heroin.html
I wonder what contribution your posts have made to the net level of ignorance,stupidity,etc on this thread. Perhaps you can free us from our bubbles. Let us know how the "wider world works". I'm always ready to learn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue
Where was this?
When my mother was in the Infirmary 18 years ago Social Services were closely involved so when the decision was taken that my mum had to go to a nursing home this was agreed jointly with them and the medical staff.
When my wife needed care support at home,her care package was again a joint decision between social workers and medical staff this time at UHW who gave her a more generous package than I requested.
That ticking time bomb has well and truly gone off since 18 years ago. If you can get Social Services involved, care is means-tested with a patient contribution capped at £90 per week. My mother had 4x carers per day but was bed ridden, terminally ill, by the time care was sorted. The care is outsourced to private companies who bid for the work. Five weeks of care and she passed away. No chance of getting that care transferred to my ill dad. Start all over again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elwood Blues
My 91 y.o. dad was taken to A and E yesterday. 10 hours mainly in a corridor on a trolley. The staff have been great but there are still relatives threatening them if they dont attend to their family member straight away.
Dont worry though. Boris will sort it out (ie more backdoor NHS privatisation).
There are thousands of psychiatrists and substance misuse workers who would completely refute this man's workQuote:
Originally Posted by David Vincent
And the fact its reviewed in the torygraph says it all
Withdrawal from heroin is very hard
You have a sort of evangelical god squad I am allright jack attitude to this subject which would be worrying if it was widespread among the medical community
Thankfully they are more compassionate and realise it's far more than a pull yourself together , eat your greens and everything will be ok situation
Its fecking disgraceful , my mother had two serious infections over the summer and only now have they all come togetherQuote:
Originally Posted by IanD
But I don't blame social services or the NHS .......its best that older people are looked after at home but central government have for ten years starved the service providers of cash , we have private carers who are employed by the council and you can see the difference .......first six weeks she was under the council resettlement team who were all fully trained care workers , the private carers who were awarded the contract are all pleasant enough but the standard of care isn't very good , it's a no win situation