Re: Is Clive being racist calling folk racist
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gofer Blue
Why this obsession with good works? I have never claimed that Christians have a monopoly on good works. Indeed in Ephesians 2:8-9 it says: “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.”
If you recall you taunted me with your comment about love thy neighbour unless he is an immigrant, as if I am some rabid far-right racist. My example of bringing the Syrian refugee family was simply in response to that comment, not some additional bragging rights about good works. Incidentally our community sponsorship group consists of people of faith and of no faith, I just happened to have had the motivation to kick it off.
Why do you also seem to characterise a Christian as some kind of racist Brexit/Tory-voting toff? It makes me wonder how many Christians you know personally. For the record I would describe myself as apolitical in as much as I have no political affiliations. I suppose if you wanted to classify me I would be leaning towards socialist but my ideal political party would be a kind of pick and mix of policies from all parties but firmly based on justice and equality for all.
I don’t think God has made me a moral person but he brought me to the realisation that I have fallen way short of the person that Jesus expects me to be. Hence I aim to be the best person I can be (but will never be “perfect”) for him and to be his hands and feet wherever I find myself. “Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me” (Matthew 25:40).
If you would like to meet to have a chat and a drink with me, the offer is there. I do not get to many games any more but I do have a Flexiticket so I get down to the CCS when I can. I used one last weekend to watch the Swansea game – not a classic unfortunately!
Your right .
I know some wonderful Christians who work tirelessly in the community helping the vulnerable , a couple of which maybe Tory voters actually ,it doesn't make them a racist Brexit / Tory-voting Toff's , it makes them better than the folk who do nothing .
Re: Is Clive being racist calling folk racist
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gofer Blue
Why? I voted leave but like everyone else I would have known about the 67% rule before I voted, so no argument surely. If the vote was 66.9% then I would ask for a recount!
You think the likes of Farage and Johnson (who used the campaign as a springboard) would just shrug their shoulders? Would the Mail and Express back down?
Absolutely not, the rhetoric (which in June 2016 was very much aimed at immigration) would have increased. There would be outrage that 50% more people voted to leave than stay but the Political Elite are thwarting the Will Of The People.
Re: Is Clive being racist calling folk racist
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lardy
You think the likes of Farage and Johnson (who used the campaign as a springboard) would just shrug their shoulders? Would the Mail and Express back down?
Absolutely not, the rhetoric (which in June 2016 was very much aimed at immigration) would have increased. There would be outrage that 50% more people voted to leave than stay but the Political Elite are thwarting the Will Of The People.
Why should I care what Farage, Johnson, the Daily Mail or the Daily Express think/say? What is so difficult to understand - there are no shades of grey here, 67% means 67%, full stop.
Re: Is Clive being racist calling folk racist
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gofer Blue
Why should I care what Farage, Johnson, the Daily Mail or the Daily Express think/say? What is so difficult to understand - there are no shades of grey here, 67% means 67%, full stop.
I haven't said you cared what they think. I don't care what they think. I'm asking what you think they would do.
The idea that they would say "oh well, we needed 67% but only got 60%" and lay down their arms is crazy. They'd double their efforts.
Re: Is Clive being racist calling folk racist
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Your right .
I know some wonderful Christians who work tirelessly in the community helping the vulnerable , a couple of which maybe Tory voters actually ,it doesn't make them a racist Brexit / Tory-voting Toff's , it makes them better than the folk who do nothing .
If you are near Cardiff maybe you could introduce some of them to this Sludge chap. He doesn't seem keen to meet me for a chat, unless in fairness he hasn't seen my last two posts yet. Perhaps he is nervous that I will not fit with his perceived stereotype Christian?
Re: Is Clive being racist calling folk racist
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gofer Blue
Why this obsession with good works? I have never claimed that Christians have a monopoly on good works. Indeed in Ephesians 2:8-9 it says: “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.”
If you recall you taunted me with your comment about love thy neighbour unless he is an immigrant, as if I am some rabid far-right racist. My example of bringing the Syrian refugee family was simply in response to that comment, not some additional bragging rights about good works. Incidentally our community sponsorship group consists of people of faith and of no faith, I just happened to have had the motivation to kick it off.
Why do you also seem to characterise a Christian as some kind of racist Brexit/Tory-voting toff? It makes me wonder how many Christians you know personally. For the record I would describe myself as apolitical in as much as I have no political affiliations. I suppose if you wanted to classify me I would be leaning towards socialist but my ideal political party would be a kind of pick and mix of policies from all parties but firmly based on justice and equality for all.
I don’t think God has made me a moral person but he brought me to the realisation that I have fallen way short of the person that Jesus expects me to be. Hence I aim to be the best person I can be (but will never be “perfect”) for him and to be his hands and feet wherever I find myself. “Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me” (Matthew 25:40).
If you would like to meet to have a chat and a drink with me, the offer is there. I do not get to many games any more but I do have a Flexiticket so I get down to the CCS when I can. I used one last weekend to watch the Swansea game – not a classic unfortunately!
Now you are quoting bits out of a book written by people many years after this chap snuffed it , saying it's his very words ......and you live your life by this nonsense ?
And you voted brexit ?
Those two reasons are enough in themselves to turn down the offer of a chat
You are quite clearly a christian whose morals end at the point of being part of a multi cultural , multi national europe
In other words you've got morals , in your case christian morals but they only exist to the point that you like them
Those are not the kind of morals that stand up to scrutiny , brexit is going to stuff many people up the arse and ruin this country for generations ......and you voted for it ........so good luck to your grandchildren and pray for them , they are going to need it
Re: Is Clive being racist calling folk racist
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Your right .
I know some wonderful Christians who work tirelessly in the community helping the vulnerable , a couple of which maybe Tory voters actually ,it doesn't make them a racist Brexit / Tory-voting Toff's , it makes them better than the folk who do nothing .
I do loads to help people and give loads to charity , dont need some moral sense of duty forced on me by something that doesn't exist making me do it
Re: Is Clive being racist calling folk racist
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gofer Blue
These sound like Project Fear arguments to me. Let's wait and see.
Do you deny climate change as well ?
Re: Is Clive being racist calling folk racist
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
There's no saving you buddy...
Hes in complete denial
Re: Is Clive being racist calling folk racist
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lardy
I haven't said you cared what they think. I don't care what they think. I'm asking what you think they would do.
The idea that they would say "oh well, we needed 67% but only got 60%" and lay down their arms is crazy. They'd double their efforts.
They would double their efforts to do what? They lost. End of story. Maybe come back in 20 years and test the waters again. Once in a lifetime vote and all that...!
Re: Is Clive being racist calling folk racist
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Do you deny climate change as well ?
Not at all, it's been "bleedin obvious" for many years. I am doing my bit but I won't go into detail because I don't want to be dragged into a "I'm doing more than you" discussion along the lines of "who does more for charity" which you seem to favour.
I'm sorry you have turned down my offer of a chat. It would have been interesting but as you have closed your mind it would be pointless. The fact that you have accepted the notion that all the New Testament was written hundreds of years after the death of Jesus and therefore is a work of fiction, then yes, it would be pointless.
I wish you good luck with your Syrian refugee family. I don't know to what extent you will be involved but I have found with our Syrian family it has been quite a mix of emotions. It was hard work in the beginning but after the 18 months or so that they have been here they have become friends and to the children we are their surrogate grandparents! I know what we are doing is a drop in the ocean but we do what we can do.
Re: Is Clive being racist calling folk racist
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gofer Blue
They would double their efforts to do what? They lost. End of story. Maybe come back in 20 years and test the waters again. Once in a lifetime vote and all that...!
Double their efforts to leave the EU, obviously.
You think Farage would return under his rock? Johnson would let Cameron get on with being PM? The ERG Tories would give it up? The Mail and Express would change their tune?
60% of the country supporting them, and it would just be switched off like that. Sure.
Re: Is Clive being racist calling folk racist
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lardy
Double their efforts to leave the EU, obviously.
You think Farage would return under his rock? Johnson would let Cameron get on with being PM? The ERG Tories would give it up? The Mail and Express would change their tune?
60% of the country supporting them, and it would just be switched off like that. Sure.
Didn't Farage categorically say that he wouldn't accept 'remain' as an outcome if leave had lost the vote?
Re: Is Clive being racist calling folk racist
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Heisenberg
Didn't Farage categorically say that he wouldn't accept 'remain' as an outcome if leave had lost the vote?
Yes he did.
Re: Is Clive being racist calling folk racist
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gofer Blue
Not at all, it's been "bleedin obvious" for many years. I am doing my bit but I won't go into detail because I don't want to be dragged into a "I'm doing more than you" discussion along the lines of "who does more for charity" which you seem to favour.
I'm sorry you have turned down my offer of a chat. It would have been interesting but as you have closed your mind it would be pointless. The fact that you have accepted the notion that all the New Testament was written hundreds of years after the death of Jesus and therefore is a work of fiction, then yes, it would be pointless.
I wish you good luck with your Syrian refugee family. I don't know to what extent you will be involved but I have found with our Syrian family it has been quite a mix of emotions. It was hard work in the beginning but after the 18 months or so that they have been here they have become friends and to the children we are their surrogate grandparents! I know what we are doing is a drop in the ocean but we do what we can do.
My mind is very open but not to fantasy and fairy tales
Good luck with your charity work , keep it up and I will continue with mine
Take care of yourself
Re: Is Clive being racist calling folk racist
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
My mind is very open but not to fantasy and fairy tales
Good luck with your charity work , keep it up and I will continue with mine
Take care of yourself
I‘m sorry you feel that way but there it is. I would have liked the opportunity to debate with you!
It would be good if you could update us from time to time on the progress of your Syrian refugee family. I don’t know how the private messaging system works but I would be really interested to know how it’s going if you wanted to use that. I trust you will find it to be a rewarding experience as I have done, despite lots of trials and tribulations along the way! There are several other groups in/around Cardiff I believe so there should be plenty of help/advice to be had.
Take care.
Gofer.
