Vast Collection of Cardiff City Memorabilia for sale at Auction

holy smoke... would love to know the story behind where the haul has originated from... unless of course its posted in the comments somewhere which of course ive not read as yet :hehe:

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Originally Posted by bluemoon

holy smoke... would love to know the story behind where the haul has originated from... unless of course its posted in the comments somewhere which of course ive not read as yet :hehe:

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That's right.

This would be a good project for the Trust. There was talk of a Ccfc museum a few Years Ago?

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Originally Posted by Pontprennau Bluebird

This would be a good project for the Trust. There was talk of a Ccfc museum a few Years Ago?

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Earlier in this thread Keith Morgan said that he had brought up the question of this collection with the club, let's hope the club get on the case and sharpish as the auction is on the 25th. Offer the vendor an appropriate and acceptable price and get it off the market.

Lot 869, vinyl contains recordings of the 1927 triump, including first ever sung "Abide with me" at the FA Cup final.

It would be a snip at £100 to £150!

Wales Online have picked it up. Power to CCMB !

Hopefully the club will sit up and take notice


https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/...ction-17584026

Cardiff City fans' boost as historic club collection controversially put up for auction is suddenly withdrawn from sale

Bluebirds officials have been involved in behind the scenes negotiations to preserve the memorabilia, which features the rich history of Wales' capital city club

A host of prized Cardiff City items due to be controversially auctioned off this week have been withdrawn from sale, Wales Online has learned.

The memorabilia, believed to have been in the ownership of the club's historian, was due to raise thousands of pounds at an auction in East Anglia on Saturday.

However, behind the scenes moves by concerned Bluebirds officials have ensured the collection - which dates back to the beginning of the last century - will be retained and kept within the Welsh capital.

It has been officially pulled from the auction, where 40 lots were set to go on sale this weekend.

It is not clear yet exactly where the cherished collection will be rehoused by the club.

The news will delight Cardiff City fans, many of whom were alarmed and angered that some of the most important things in the club's rich history could be sold off to private buyers.

There had been calls from Bluebirds supporters for the club to intervene. Failing that, it was argued Cardiff Council, the National Museum, or the National Library of Wales should seek to buy the items and preserve them here.

The memorabilia features everything from unique 1927 FA Cup Final mementos, to bound volumes detailing Board meetings, to player contracts - including those involving Welsh legends John Toshack, who was sold to Liverpool, and John Charles, who was signed from Roma.

Many of the minutes of the Board meetings, from 1915 to 1972, are in copperplate writing and described by the auctioneers as "A truly unique piece of club history being the original Directors Minute Ledgers, Weekly Payment Records, Wages Books, Share Register, etc. Must be viewed (approx 35 volumes) Heavy."

It is understood the collection was gathering dust and rescued from the old Ninian Park, when the ground was demolished 11 years ago.

But there has been a behind the scenes dispute about legal ownership and the Bluebirds hierarchy were understood to be ready to embark down that route, if necessary, rather than let the items be sold.

Cardiff director Steve Borley and the club's Head Of Operations Wayne Nash have been locked in behind the scenes dialogue to try to resolve the issue.

As a result, we have been told the matter has been amicably settled internally, with the items being removed from auction.

It remains unclear at this stage what will happen with the collection, or whether it will be rehoused within Cardiff City Stadium.

However, the news will delight Cardiff City Supporters Trust. Tim Hartley, one of their Board members had said: "It would be disastrous if this unique memorabilia, such as the board minutes and contract documents, were lost not just to the football club, but the capital city and Wales as well."

He had called for the club, or the authorities, to step in "as a matter of urgency to ensure the preservation of these items for future generations."

The behind the scenes negotiations have led to the Bluebirds getting their way and ensuring the collection is withdrawn from sale

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Originally Posted by Michael Morris

Cardiff City fans' boost as historic club collection controversially put up for auction is suddenly withdrawn from sale

Bluebirds officials have been involved in behind the scenes negotiations to preserve the memorabilia, which features the rich history of Wales' capital city club

A host of prized Cardiff City items due to be controversially auctioned off this week have been withdrawn from sale, Wales Online has learned.

The memorabilia, believed to have been in the ownership of the club's historian, was due to raise thousands of pounds at an auction in East Anglia on Saturday.

However, behind the scenes moves by concerned Bluebirds officials have ensured the collection - which dates back to the beginning of the last century - will be retained and kept within the Welsh capital.

It has been officially pulled from the auction, where 40 lots were set to go on sale this weekend.

It is not clear yet exactly where the cherished collection will be rehoused by the club.

The news will delight Cardiff City fans, many of whom were alarmed and angered that some of the most important things in the club's rich history could be sold off to private buyers.

There had been calls from Bluebirds supporters for the club to intervene. Failing that, it was argued Cardiff Council, the National Museum, or the National Library of Wales should seek to buy the items and preserve them here.

The memorabilia features everything from unique 1927 FA Cup Final mementos, to bound volumes detailing Board meetings, to player contracts - including those involving Welsh legends John Toshack, who was sold to Liverpool, and John Charles, who was signed from Roma.

Many of the minutes of the Board meetings, from 1915 to 1972, are in copperplate writing and described by the auctioneers as "A truly unique piece of club history being the original Directors Minute Ledgers, Weekly Payment Records, Wages Books, Share Register, etc. Must be viewed (approx 35 volumes) Heavy."

It is understood the collection was gathering dust and rescued from the old Ninian Park, when the ground was demolished 11 years ago.

But there has been a behind the scenes dispute about legal ownership and the Bluebirds hierarchy were understood to be ready to embark down that route, if necessary, rather than let the items be sold.

Cardiff director Steve Borley and the club's Head Of Operations Wayne Nash have been locked in behind the scenes dialogue to try to resolve the issue.

As a result, we have been told the matter has been amicably settled internally, with the items being removed from auction.

It remains unclear at this stage what will happen with the collection, or whether it will be rehoused within Cardiff City Stadium.

However, the news will delight Cardiff City Supporters Trust. Tim Hartley, one of their Board members had said: "It would be disastrous if this unique memorabilia, such as the board minutes and contract documents, were lost not just to the football club, but the capital city and Wales as well."

He had called for the club, or the authorities, to step in "as a matter of urgency to ensure the preservation of these items for future generations."

The behind the scenes negotiations have led to the Bluebirds getting their way and ensuring the collection is withdrawn from sale

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Great to see this has been resolved, It looks as if the club were considering legal action !

But there has been a behind the scenes dispute about legal ownership and the Bluebirds hierarchy were understood to be ready to embark down that route, if necessary, rather than let the items be sold.

Cardiff director Steve Borley and the club's Head Of Operations Wayne Nash have been locked in behind the scenes dialogue to try to resolve the issue.

As a result, we have been told the matter has been amicably settled internally, with the items being removed from auction.

Sounds like the right outcome has been reached.

Everton have all their Minute Books from the 20's and 30's online and make fascinating reading, including try to get payment from Cardiff City when we'd bought one of their players and we were reluctant to part with any money.

Nothing changes, we still don't like parting with money.

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Originally Posted by Enoch Mort

Wales Online have picked it up. Power to CCMB !

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We are still the best :thumbup::wave::wave::easy:

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Originally Posted by alan_corneli

Sounds like the right outcome has been reached.

Everton have all their Minute Books from the 20's and 30's online and make fascinating reading, including try to get payment from Cardiff City when we'd bought one of their players and we were reluctant to part with any money.

Nothing changes, we still don't like parting with money.

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That's a fascinating website - they also have all their match programmes since the 1890's online !

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Originally Posted by Since62

On behalf of the Trust I have already been speaking to the club up to and including board level about this for some time and am awaiting a decision from them ( certain people at the club have been trying to help)

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Well done Keith, a good result for the Trust. Pleased to see the club doing the right thing. Let’s hope the Club will display at least some of the memorabilia so the fans can get to see it :thumbup:

What is going on ?

The auctioneers website say that this Saturday's auction of Cardiff City memorabilia will go ahead "contrary to rumours"


https://www.lockdales.com

I just saw that too. Maybe they are worried about missing their fees and the club will have to bid like anyone else. We've heard nothing from the club though. There was a comment further up the thread that the club would want proof of ownership from the vendor, so may be things have not been settled.

I think the items will raise less than anticipated. Dealers buy pre War bound volumes of programmes and split them to sell as individual items, but their value is far less without covers. The post war ones are not that to find so why pay silly money for bound volumes when collectors can slowly add individual items at much lower cost. For instance there's a bound volume of 84/85 homes on Ebay at the moment for £22.95 which is about the right price, and a complete season of those can normally be bought for £5-£20. The earlier ones and the 1927 stuff is of much more interest.

Not for me though as I don't have the cash for that, prefer to book a holiday!

In many ways you might expect the ones from the 1980s to fetch a lot more as presumably very few got printed and sold.

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Originally Posted by Enoch Mort

What is going on ?

The auctioneers website say that this Saturday's auction of Cardiff City memorabilia will go ahead "contrary to rumours"


https://www.lockdales.com

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Do we assume the club are not interested, being held to ransom on price ? I would love to know who is selling and why in Ipswich ?

*Please Note: The Cardiff City football memorabilia in this Saturday's (25th) Auction will be sold as normal (contrary to rumours). Any questions you may contact 01473627110

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Originally Posted by soulsurfer3

Do we assume the club are not interested, being held to ransom on price ? I would love to know who is selling and why in Ipswich ?

*Please Note: The Cardiff City football memorabilia in this Saturday's (25th) Auction will be sold as normal (contrary to rumours). Any questions you may contact 01473627110

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Lockdales tour the country and have an open day or two in Merthyr in a couple of weeks, so maybe the idea of an auction house coming to this area saves the trouble of taking all the stuff elsewhere. Although Anthemion in Cardiff would have been more conveneient or SPortingold as they seem to be the experts in football memorabilia, although their owner died just before Xmas, but their January auction went ahead last week. But there again may be it's picking an auction house in Ipswich to appear that the source of the lots is not from this area? But maybe the club are juts not interested, but that contradicts what has been previously stated above. Maybe there is a contract between the auction house and the vendor , that if the lots are withdrawn then sold privately then the auction house can charge fees based on the estimate? A bit like if someone take tehir hosue off the market from an estate agent and tries to sell it privately.

Watch this space I think over the next few days.

Yeah all sounds credible, it`s the apparent mystery of the seller has me a little intrigued to be honest. TLG mentioned possible Journos. from the 80`s and that has got me trying to remember , the likes of Shepherd, Jackson, Boon, Lovejoy and others. I can`t see the problem, unless they are dodgy, but as you say it might come out and be meaningless.

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Originally Posted by soulsurfer3

Yeah all sounds credible, it`s the apparent mystery of the seller has me a little intrigued to be honest. TLG mentioned possible Journos. from the 80`s and that has got me trying to remember , the likes of Shepherd, Jackson, Boon, Lovejoy and others. I can`t see the problem, unless they are dodgy, but as you say it might come out and be meaningless.

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Yes it's one of those you mention.

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Originally Posted by cardiff55

Yes it's one of those you mention.

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From the Wales Online article posted above

The memorabilia, believed to have been in the ownership of the club's historian, was due to raise thousands of pounds at an auction in East Anglia on Saturday.

Whoever it is are they selling stuff they had no right to take? Is that why the club are trying to stop it.

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Originally Posted by MacAdder

Lot 869, vinyl contains recordings of the 1927 triump, including first ever sung "Abide with me" at the FA Cup final.

It would be a snip at £100 to £150!

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I got one, will never be sold. Take it to my grave.

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Originally Posted by Michael Morris

From the Wales Online article posted above

The memorabilia, believed to have been in the ownership of the club's historian, was due to raise thousands of pounds at an auction in East Anglia on Saturday.

Whoever it is are they selling stuff they had no right to take? Is that why the club are trying to stop it.

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“Over the years I’ve collected a lot of memorabilia for the Cardiff City archives and I’m looking forward to the move to the new stadium.” I bet he was

THE final days of Ninian Park have certainly brought out a lot of nostalgia for me,” admitted Richard, who become editor of Cardiff’s matchday programme in 1985. I bet it did

Taken from WOL article from 2009

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/w...epherd-2114993

Looking at the terms and conditions of sale of Lockdales the auctioneers it says that once the vendor has signed a contract to sell items at the auction there is a 7 day cooling off period. After the cooling off period items cannot be withdrawn. This suggests that Saturdays sale will go ahead unless there is some sort of legal intervention if ownership is disputed. Their website still confirms that the auction will go ahead. If it does then the Club will have to bid along with everyone else. One would assume they have the financial clout to see off all dealers and collectors. The current regime have proved in the past that they have scant regard for the history of the club with the blue to red issue, this is a chance to redeem themselves and buy all 40 lots and bring them home.

https://9f2fd83f-b4cb-4bb7-b62c-e170...3710affe4d.pdf

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Originally Posted by soulsurfer3

“Over the years I’ve collected a lot of memorabilia for the Cardiff City archives and I’m looking forward to the move to the new stadium.” I bet he was

THE final days of Ninian Park have certainly brought out a lot of nostalgia for me,” admitted Richard, who become editor of Cardiff’s matchday programme in 1985. I bet it did

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Very easy to take pot-shots in retrospect, but I think you're out of order.

The Walesonline article a few days ago said "It is understood the collection was gathering dust and rescued from the old Ninian Park, when the ground was demolished 11 years ago."

However, I'm certain I viewed the boardroom ledgers in the vendor's house long before that. I believe it's 100% certain that some of these items would have been thrown away and lost forever if he hadn't taken ownership of them when he did, and I'm also 100% certain that he's never received anything even close to the sort of financial benefits from the club that he should have for the countless hours of work he put into it over a period of decades.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Very easy to take pot-shots in retrospect, but I think you're out of order.

The Walesonline article a few days ago said "It is understood the collection was gathering dust and rescued from the old Ninian Park, when the ground was demolished 11 years ago."

However, I'm certain I viewed the boardroom ledgers in the vendor's house long before that. I believe it's 100% certain that some of these items would have been thrown away and lost forever if he hadn't taken ownership of them when he did, and I'm also 100% certain that he's never received anything even close to the sort of financial benefits from the club that he should have for the countless hours of work he put into it over a period of decades.

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I am not judging the man or taking pot shots for the sake of it. If he has aquired the memorabilia legally and all is above board then best of luck to him, no one can question his interest in the club. It just seems a little odd the club has allowed this situation to arise after Borley and Nash had dealt with it "amicably internally"

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Originally Posted by Enoch Mort

Looking at the terms and conditions of sale of Lockdales the auctioneers it says that once the vendor has signed a contract to sell items at the auction there is a 7 day cooling off period. After the cooling off period items cannot be withdrawn. This suggests that Saturdays sale will go ahead unless there is some sort of legal intervention if ownership is disputed. Their website still confirms that the auction will go ahead. If it does then the Club will have to bid along with everyone else. One would assume they have the financial clout to see off all dealers and collectors. The current regime have proved in the past that they have scant regard for the history of the club with the blue to red issue, this is a chance to redeem themselves and buy all 40 lots and bring them home.

https://9f2fd83f-b4cb-4bb7-b62c-e170...3710affe4d.pdf

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With regard to the issue of redeeming themselves, the club would surely have issued some kind of statement via Wales On Line, that they would fight tooth and nail to get hold of these items, if that was the case. The spokesperson on behalf of the cub would then go on to say, how these items would be proudly displayed at our club for all supporters to view. Sadly, it doesn't look that way. As you rightly mention Tan and co have scant regard for the clubs history, culture and tradition. Despite two (poor) seasons in the premier league I for one won't be sad to see their eventual departure

To be fair we don't know what is going on behind the scenes after the club were alerted to this sale. It looks like they tried to intervene in the matter and rescue the material from the owner. However, as stated above, the vendor has a contract with the auctioneers following a 7 day cooling off period. But I do imagine the club have something ups their sleeve in regard of this. Hopefully , if they are not questioning the ownership of the items, they will ensure they are the top bidders at auction. If not , maybe they do not care.

As for the above post blaming Tan and the club, I fail to see how they can be held to account for events that took place 30 years or so ago, unless you mean in relation to any non action this week.

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Originally Posted by cardiff55

To be fair we don't know what is going on behind the scenes after the club were alerted to this sale. It looks like they tried to intervene in the matter and rescue the material from the owner. However, as stated above, the vendor has a contract with the auctioneers following a 7 day cooling off period. But I do imagine the club have something ups their sleeve in regard of this. Hopefully , if they are not questioning the ownership of the items, they will ensure they are the top bidders at auction. If not , maybe they do not care.

As for the above post blaming Tan and the club, I fail to see how they can be held to account for events that took place 30 years or so ago, unless you mean in relation to any non action this week.

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If there is no legal dispute over the ownership then it`s only right the legal owner can do what he likes with his property. As the club`s historian I am sure he did the right thing and offered it to the club prior to any auction entry as he will know the importance of this historical material to the fans and the club itself. I can`t see there being huge monetary value in the collection but even so the club should do all it can to stop the collection being broken up and placed within CCS. Maybe the trust could look to raise funds to obtain the collection.

As for the above post blaming Tan and the club, I fail to see how they can be held to account for events that took place 30 years or so ago, unless you mean in relation to any non action this week.[/QUOTE]

Of course Tan and co cannot be blamed for what happened before they arrived. I do mean, of course, that they can be blamed for what appears to be any inaction over the last week.

Others joining in the campaign

Andrew R T Davies AM

https://twitter.com/AndrewRTDavies

BBC in on the action

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-51192197

Lockdales still confirming the auction, including the City stuff, still to go ahead as normal.

I wonder if it's too late to add Flint, Glatzel and Whyte to the auction ?

Also I see Andrew RT Davies has confirmed his support, the first thing I've ever agreed with him on. Not even do i agree to him being address as Andrew RT in TV programmes! Can't these people just call him Andrew?

A question about the fate of the memorabilia was raised in the National Assembly for Wales by Rhun Ap Iorwerth this afternoon.

https://cofnod.cynulliad.cymru/Plenary/6075#C258309

Pressure's not on Norwich for a change but on Cardiff City FC

Just the £28390 raised at this auction this morning!! (If my sums are right),The 4 Chelsea v Cardiff items were not his.

Sorry it was £28930.

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Originally Posted by cardiff55

Sorry it was £28930.

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We’ve got players worth that........... haven’t we?

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Originally Posted by splott parker

We’ve got players worth that........... haven’t we?

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Don't be silly, they are not worth that much.

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Originally Posted by cardiff55

Sorry it was £28930.

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That's about twice the upper auction estimate. What would the buyers commission be ?

Clemos family or Steve Borley. Mr Barry islands family who knows whose selling them

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Originally Posted by dandywarhol

Clemos family or Steve Borley. Mr Barry islands family who knows whose selling them

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Sellers fee can be as high as 20% plus vat.Buyer pays a fee plus vat as well

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Originally Posted by dandywarhol

Clemos family or Steve Borley. Mr Barry islands family who knows whose selling them

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It's a well known person who has written books on Cardiff City, and recently left the club's employ.