Can you imagine being a young player hoping to impress and finding yourself on the field with older professionals who have been told to throw the game. It would hardly fill you with confidence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuerto
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Can you imagine being a young player hoping to impress and finding yourself on the field with older professionals who have been told to throw the game. It would hardly fill you with confidence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuerto
Cameron Coxe:
On my limited viewing of his first team performances I always felt he would have been a little better suited to being a rwb in a sweeper system. That said my feeling was that he'd be most at home playing on the right of a midfield-four. It didn't strike me that he was a pure defender.
StT.
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Someone's not happy(his dad?)
https://twitter.com/coxeyccfc/status...769470977?s=19
Well, if that's true about the club blocking loans four times, he has a right to be upset - I'm struggling to think of an argument as to why they should do that if he wasn't going to be playing for the first teamQuote:
Originally Posted by jeremy corbyn
That's why I think it's unfair to suggest they're moving on because they're not good enough. I would imagine that, with notable exceptions aside, so many youth players either make it or don't on basis of being in right place at right time. This lot would have had a much better chance if Harris had been our manager two years ago and yet those aged two years younger are potentially being asked to learn in yet another new system that it may have come too late for some of them as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy corbyn
But at what level?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock
Apparently we tried to get him a loan to a League Two club in the summer, but they didn't think he was good enough defensively.
It seems a bit of an odd thing to claim. Wouldn't the club be arranging the loan themselves?Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
His father is bound to stick up for him. Can’t fault that really, although not sure about the half naked twitter photo 😂Quote:
Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy
Shame for the lad, it’s fine lines really , a couple of breaks could have gone the other way in the cup games and he’d have had a contract...but he won’t be the first or the last.
Hopefully it opens the door for another lad to come through.
I think Coxe has been shabbily treated. He obviously has/had potential. The goal in the home game v Carlisle was not totally his fault, Morrison had two opportunities to clear and the 'keeper flapped at a cross. He certainly is a decent footballer. But a number of City youngsters have left and found careers at a lower level before coming back up, Tom James and Tom Lockyer (who has also played for Wales). Aron Wildig has played in the lower levels of the FL for 10 years, and Semi Ajayi did well after he left us (although he did not come through our youth system). But there again others like Their Wharton and Tommy O'Sullivan disappeared. I quite liked Coxe and I am sure we'll see him fixed up next season (and then sold on for a hefty fee).
I was surprised when I saw these details, but to be fair its does give players who are being release a chance to go on trial elsewhere and earn a contract for next season with another club, as a poster above states. So what does seem harsh could in fact be very beneficial to those young players.
No, I don't think so, clubs could have made enquiries about him with a view to taking him on loan and were turned down.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy
I see that Rollin Menayase has featured in twenty plus games for Bristol Rovers (who are only one level below us) this season as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by cardiff55
Well if Exeter were one then apparently it was then that refused it.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
I would also think that if Harris wanted to play him in the Cup then he would have held off any loans until we were out. Coxe may just be a victim of circumstances. Harsh to be judged on just 3 cup games in a makeshift team
However in the cold light of day I’d say both Brown and Bagan did better in their games.
How many players do you keep in the hope they break through ??
I was hopeful for Coxe but it doesn't seem to have worked out for him.
I'm in the Jimmy the Jock camp of thinking he's shown glimpses of a good player,but if he isn't kicking on and making a mark at his age then the right thing to do is let him go, he's still got a chance to make it somewhere else, there's even a chance he may kick on, who knows, but it wasn't to be for Coxe at Cardiff. Let's hope he doesn't end up at WBA with Ajayi :biggrin:
Pretty obvious isn't it? If the club don't rate him which they obviously don't then what's the point in keeping him and loaning him out.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
No, it's not pretty obvious. On the one hand, we have Lawnmower saying he wasn't loaned out because they wanted to use him in the FA Cup and now we have you saying there wasn't any point loaning him out because they'd decided he wasn't good enough, so what was the point in using him against Carlisle?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bald Barry Bastad
A few weeks ago when Harris was questioned on the signing of Sanderson and Smith, and what it meant for Coxe, he was talking about the need to get Coxe out on loan to play regular senior football. Either something has changed in the last 3 weeks (the obvious change is the Steve Morison appointment) or Harris didn't make the decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Guessing they made the decision after the cup games.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Dont get the fuss. 21 year old. Doesnt look good enough when he plays. All our coaching staff have seen him for years.
Decision not good enough.
If he turns into Roberto Carlos lets moan then. Lets face it club have made the right decision.
Agreed. Surprised at the fuss. Thought he looked average and unremarkable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilts
If he wasn’t welsh no one would care.
It'll be another Semi Ajayi scenarioQuote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
I don't think there's any fuss is there? Everyone's just discussing why they think it's happened, which isn't unreasonableQuote:
Originally Posted by Hilts
Id say there is. A thread dedicated to a young player being released with over 50 replies is.Quote:
Originally Posted by delmbox
Weve released loads of players. Why the fuss over Coxe.?
Because he was the only academy graduate in recent memory that we thought might make itQuote:
Originally Posted by Hilts
Boards got how many members! A few people writing one reply each isn't a fuss, is it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilts
Agreed. The club and coaches would have worked with him every day. For whatever reason he's been deemed not good enough, like thousands before him. We don't have much of an idea what type of player he was, what his strengths were, how he reacted or what his character was like, nobody has made a case for him on here based on his footballing ability, yet some are surprised he's been released, based on what?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawnmower
He's 21, he's not playing, he was poor against Carlisle, that was his last chance and he didn't take it. People can cite a make shift team, and ridiculously saying that other players didn't perform either (what has that got to do with it?) The fact is that Coxe was given an opportunity to show his worth on two occasions and he blew it. There aren't any excuses, all he had to do was concentrate on himself and do the basics right and offer a bit of quality when going forward, he didn't.
Without sounding condescending i really think that fans need to understand that football is brutal, it's not like other jobs where you can fail at things, young footballers don't get that many chances. I'm trusting the club on this call, they know him better than anyone else.
It’s interesting, because just last month, Coxe was amongst the first team, so Harris presumably thought something of him.
We then get a new U23s manager and then 2 weeks later the player is told he’s being released.
Is Morison, after just 2 weeks in his new role, qualified to make that decision? If not, then why let others make that call, when he’d need longer to decide?
What makes this case different, is that the other players were not on the fringe of the first team, Coxe was.
Also, his dad is alleging that club turned down four loan proposals, although of course, we don’t know what they were.
I find it a bit weird, really.
Best of luck to him, though!
You're right, football is brutal, or at least it can be for some. I don't think that any of the thirteen players involved today (Whyte wasn't on the pitch long enough to be criticised in the same) will be judged in the same way as Coxe was for a performance I thought lacked desire, conviction and ability - it was as if they were thinking we've got no chance without Tomlin, and we're talking experienced players here, yet I bet they'll all be involved again on Tuesday.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuerto
I'm not saying that because I'm defending Cameron Coxe (I said earlier in the thread, I can understand the club's decision in a way)', but it does seem to me that there are double standards in play here.
Difference is that the players involved today have mostly done really well over the last few weeks.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Coxe didn’t have that luxury to fallback on.
How long should we hang on to a player who has been at the club for years and still hadn’t impressed enough to break into the 1st team picture ?
If we do, what do you say to the players coming behind him who are then denied a chance by a player 3 years older who’s not in the 1st team picture.
How much do you offer him , as he won’t be YTS any more.
No, for me, and it may be harsh, it’s probably better all round for him to have a crack elsewhere.
The only other option is to keep him and loan him straight out, but for that you’d need a club at a decent level who want to take him and pay his wages.
If the club can’t find that then he’s wasted another few months.
It’s a tough situation and harsh that players get so little chance to impress, but then we’ve got fans booing a manager today who’s lost 3 in 17 😳
That a lot more players come through the system when we were in the lower leagues and didn’t have a pot to piss in. The 3 you mention. Gareth Abraham and Lee Baddeley also. Steve Williams the keeper. Scott Young, Lee Jarman, Lee Phillips, Nathan Wigg, Simon Howarth, Andy Evans. All see a fair bit of first team action within the space of a few years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuerto
Also, it was a 2 year YTS in those days and you were either cut loose when you are 18 or you joined the first team. This under 23 nonsense is a hinderence to the young lads rather than an advantage imo.
Now the boys who would normally be told they didn’t have a future at 18 are being strung along until they are 21/22.
think i posted this a few years ago but so apt even today
the side of academys no one talks about .it s a mugs game
http://www.parikiaki.com/2015/08/par...e-talks-about/
As I said, I don't want to make this just about Cameron Coxe. We've got one of the oldest squads in the league and I thought they turned in a performance today that was, in some ways, disgraceful for seasoned professionals - there's that cliche about how teams perform on a wet, windy Tuesday in Stoke, well today we didn't fancy it on a wet, windy Saturday in Stoke and for a team set up to play like we've been doing since Neil Warnock arrived that's just not on, yet I bet that for most, if not all, of those experienced pros, football won't be any where near as brutal for them when it comes to selection for Tuesday night.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawnmower
So it's the system and level we perform at that is a contributory factor in a lack of youth development? I completely agree with you about the U23s, although joining the first team at 18 wouldn't have been easy although it could enhance a players chances as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by J R Hartley
Ofcourse it wont be so brutal, they've proved themselves to be able performers at this level over a period of years, they have history to back them up, that's how it works. Most of those Experienced pros would've been in the position Coxe and co were in at some point, it's not like they haven't gone through the process. The brutal bit comes when it's contract renewal time.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Which could be an issue for at least 2 of them todayQuote:
Originally Posted by Tuerto
If football is so brutal then shouldn't Warnock have left far earlier than he did for failing to promote and successfully develop a single youth player? It's only now that club is raising questions about his transfer spending but we'll never know how much of that £100 million we could have saved if any of these were given a run of three games on the bounce at some point within the past three years. For Warnock you could also read Trollope, Slade, OGS, MM.
In my opinion yes. As a championship club without cat A status we haven’t the got the very best 18,19,20 year olds in the game and as a football club we’ve gone with signing ready made senior pros.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuerto
Had we been a League 2 club without the transfer budget we’ve enjoyed for the best part of a decade I have no doubt more lads would have been given more of a chance. After all, there’s quite a few ex Cardiff lads plying their trade in the lower leagues.
It’s not meant to be easy. My cousin come through Swansea’s system and was August birthday so was 15 nearly 16 when he started his YTS with Swansea and moved to digs down there. He signed his first pro contract at 17 and made his first team debut at 18. He played over 100 games by the time he was Cameron Coxes age and got a move to the championship when he was 22.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuerto
His eldest son was with Cardiff until he was 21 and didn’t get a sniff of the first team. He went to Merthyr then another Southern Prem side but just fell out of the game. He doesn’t play football anymore not even local level. I think under 23s just prolongs the agony for some of these kids who were never going to make it. Its not preparing them for men’s football either in my opinion. He’s middle son is 19 and now with our under 23s and has been on the bench without playing once and travelled with the first team a couple of times. I don’t know if he’s one of he 8 released, I think he might have another year as he’s only first year pro. However his father was playing league football at his age so he’s got to be looking to go out on loan next season if he’s going to have any chance of making it. Another year at 19/20 in the under 23s will be another year wasted in my opinion.
Jesus. Reading the comments is depressing.Quote:
Originally Posted by MOZZER2
Is it not the case that if you have the talent and the work ethic you will make it? Surely these kinds of players are few and far between and valuable commodities?