Re: Who should I vote for?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Talksport
Couldn't give a fcuk as your party are antisemetic, terrorist sympathisers. Not to mention a bunch of a55eholes ��. So glad you had the biggest hammering for 85yrs....And your namesake still hasn't fcuked off ����
So if you don’t give a **** why have you posted on this thread?
Re: Who should I vote for?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Talksport
Couldn't give a fcuk as your party are antisemetic, terrorist sympathisers. Not to mention a bunch of a55eholes 😊. So glad you had the biggest hammering for 85yrs....And your namesake still hasn't fcuked off 😂😂
I'll put you down as undecided.
😀
Re: Who should I vote for?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pearcey3
So if you don’t give a **** why have you posted on this thread?
Interesting that is the first stupid post. Must be one of those 'without IQs' that Eric referred to earlier.
Re: Who should I vote for?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pearcey3
I dunno Eric. The manifesto wasn’t popular this time around. It was seen as highly unaffordable. Labour need to be much more aggressive. They need a much more streetwise shadow cabinet. They also need to make sure they have a better chance of winning in the future. When they were last in power they should have reduced the voting age to 16. It needs to be a manifesto pledge next time around.
The manifesto never became an issue this time around. Issues other than Brexit were given little media attention for starters and virtually all talk I saw in the run up was about Brexit. Left leaning Labour supporters talked about policies but this seemed not to matter. I occasionally saw posts showing Tory promises to lift austerity and that they were going to spend this and that, all unaccounted for, but people didn't seem to care. The psyche with a lot of the people is that Labour overspend and the Tories don't. That's bullshit and needs challenging, but Labour will receive little help with this.
In 2017, it was Labour's manifesto that did a lot to claw back a massive deficit in the polls.
When Labour lost in 2010, Harriet Harman took it that Britain wanted to move towards the right and that Labour should be slightly more conservative. It lost votes in 5 years.
Labour need to be a broadly centre left party that challenges the Tories. It needs to challenge the establishment, not try and be a part of it just to have power.
Re: Who should I vote for?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pearcey3
So if you don’t give a **** why have you posted on this thread?
Because he hasn't got anything better to do. Take a moment to think how awful his life must be for that to be fun, it's sad really.
Re: Who should I vote for?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
The manifesto never became an issue this time around. Issues other than Brexit were given little media attention for starters and virtually all talk I saw in the run up was about Brexit. Left leaning Labour supporters talked about policies but this seemed not to matter. I occasionally saw posts showing Tory promises to lift austerity and that they were going to spend this and that, all unaccounted for, but people didn't seem to care. The psyche with a lot of the people is that Labour overspend and the Tories don't. That's bullshit and needs challenging, but Labour will receive little help with this.
In 2017, it was Labour's manifesto that did a lot to claw back a massive deficit in the polls.
When Labour lost in 2010, Harriet Harman took it that Britain wanted to move towards the right and that Labour should be slightly more conservative. It lost votes in 5 years.
Labour need to be a broadly centre left party that challenges the Tories. It needs to challenge the establishment, not try and be a part of it just to have power.
The main criticism of the 2019 Labour Manifesto that I have seen through polls is that it was overloaded. Individual policies were mainly popular. That was even more true in 2017. In fact the Tory Manifesto (although very light on detail) adopted a lot of 2010 and 2015 Labour pledges - along with the general move away from the cult of austerity. The 3 main problems with the 2019 Labour campaign were too many pledges (in part made possible because the Tories were making their own un-costed promises up on the hoof), Corbyn himself (an older, less energetic and much more slandered figure than in 2017) and a garbled Brexit position. On top of that the Tories caught up in the social media war and they had a leader that is somehow teflon where May was toxic.
Brexit was the main problem!
However, the political debate has moved a long way from the end of Brown/Blair or even Milliband. Corbyn and those around him have blown up the centre-right consensus and made possible what was impossible only 10 years ago. They failed - and that must not be downplayed - but they did a lot of things I want the new Labour leader to build on. Long-Bailey will probably do that. Starmer claims he will (and has doubled down on that with his 10 pledges), Nandy seems to be enjoying trashing the last 5 years and shows no interest in preserving the good stuff. She is a mixture of Blairite Labour and post Brexit populism - the freshness is attractive but the contents of the package less so.
Re: Who should I vote for?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
The main criticism of the 2019 Labour Manifesto that I have seen through polls is that it was overloaded. Individual policies were mainly popular. That was even more true in 2017. In fact the Tory Manifesto (although very light on detail) adopted a lot of 2010 and 2015 Labour pledges - along with the general move away from the cult of austerity. The 3 main problems with the 2019 Labour campaign were too many pledges (in part made possible because the Tories were making their own un-costed promises up on the hoof), Corbyn himself (an older, less energetic and much more slandered figure than in 2017) and a garbled Brexit position. On top of that the Tories caught up in the social media war and they had a leader that is somehow teflon where May was toxic.
Brexit was the main problem!
However, the political debate has moved a long way from the end of Brown/Blair or even Milliband. Corbyn and those around him have blown up the centre-right consensus and made possible what was impossible only 10 years ago. They failed - and that must not be downplayed - but they did a lot of things I want the new Labour leader to build on. Long-Bailey will probably do that. Starmer claims he will (and has doubled down on that with his 10 pledges), Nandy seems to be enjoying trashing the last 5 years and shows no interest in preserving the good stuff. She is a mixture of Blairite Labour and post Brexit populism - the freshness is attractive but the contents of the package less so.
Good read.
There is a lot to build on. I accept that Corbyn wasn't that popular in the end, a man destroyed by his own dithering as well as by the media. That doesn't mean his policies weren't popular.
There's one thing I like about RLB - she has an ability to show how her politics is a positive thing. I think that's huge. All too often people are swayed by simplicities, not manifestos or policies. "Get Brexit Done" won the Tories the election. Labour should have gone with "Boris - have you thought about this?". Trump had Make America Great. Perhaps that was the 3-word location code when he stood in his bathroom with morning glory.
Re: Who should I vote for?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Kier has no charisma
Sadly modern politics is about image and personality
Nandy has charisma , image and personality
And shes a moderate , which is vital
Labour is never going to win a majority with a left of centre candidate , we have to go back to blair for our last period of office and he was a tory in a labour suit ....the first few years were good but then his true colours showed up
If we can get someone like nandy to appeal to the middle ground , which wins the election , then we might have a chance of a labour minority or coalition labour led government
But after the loss of all those seats to the krankies in Scotland, I cant see a majority led labour government in my lifetime ......and that's with a decent leader like nandy in charge
Tony Benn, skinner , kinnock , all great speakers but all mouth and no trousers
This country has sadly lurched to the right and the labour party must hit the middle ground if it's to have any chance
Rebecca long bailey would kill us off completely
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
The main criticism of the 2019 Labour Manifesto that I have seen through polls is that it was overloaded. Individual policies were mainly popular. That was even more true in 2017. In fact the Tory Manifesto (although very light on detail) adopted a lot of 2010 and 2015 Labour pledges - along with the general move away from the cult of austerity. The 3 main problems with the 2019 Labour campaign were too many pledges (in part made possible because the Tories were making their own un-costed promises up on the hoof), Corbyn himself (an older, less energetic and much more slandered figure than in 2017) and a garbled Brexit position. On top of that the Tories caught up in the social media war and they had a leader that is somehow teflon where May was toxic.
Brexit was the main problem!
However, the political debate has moved a long way from the end of Brown/Blair or even Milliband. Corbyn and those around him have blown up the centre-right consensus and made possible what was impossible only 10 years ago. They failed - and that must not be downplayed - but they did a lot of things I want the new Labour leader to build on. Long-Bailey will probably do that. Starmer claims he will (and has doubled down on that with his 10 pledges), Nandy seems to be enjoying trashing the last 5 years and shows no interest in preserving the good stuff. She is a mixture of Blairite Labour and post Brexit populism - the freshness is attractive but the contents of the package less so.
Yes, the election was lost in this order
Brexit
Corbyn
Manifesto
The whole thing could not have been handled worse by Labour. Handed victory on a plate to Teflon man.
Certainly Labour has moved to the left from the Blair/Brown days, but interestingly the Tories policies have also moved to the left in a number of instances. Although you would never think it with Cummings at the helm.
Somehow has to keep its left credentials pure, but appearing middle of the road(wolf in sheepskin clothing). Becky is a bit too obvious with her leanings, perhaps Keir appears a bit more reasonable, but still having the right credentials. I dont want any prospective leader trashing the past, which Lisa has been doing.
Re: Who should I vote for?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pearcey3
Starmer is a safe pair of hands and I do wonder whether Nandy will cope with the onslaught of the right wing press. However she has something about her that might appeal to your average voter.
Lisa Nandy seems like a genuine person .
Hopefully that something about her will see her home .
I know we shouldn’t vote for a particular candidate by their gender, or the colour of their skin .
Labour needs a female leader .
Re: Who should I vote for?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimmy the Jock
Lisa Nandy seems like a genuine person .
Hopefully that something about her will see her home .
I know we shouldn’t vote for a particular candidate by their gender, or the colour of their skin .
Labour needs a female leader .
I agree with that. Nandy has fire. Starmer is about as passionate as Sludge after a kebab.
Re: Who should I vote for?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Talksport
Couldn't give a fcuk as your party are antisemetic, terrorist sympathisers. Not to mention a bunch of a55eholes ��. So glad you had the biggest hammering for 85yrs....And your namesake still hasn't fcuked off ����
Most apt user name on the board!!
Re: Who should I vote for?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Talksport
Couldn't give a fcuk as your party are antisemetic, terrorist sympathisers. Not to mention a bunch of a55eholes 😊. So glad you had the biggest hammering for 85yrs....And your namesake still hasn't fcuked off 😂😂
I see Julia Hartley-Brewer is in the house.
Re: Who should I vote for?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Kier has no charisma
Sadly modern politics is about image and personality
Nandy has charisma , image and personality
And shes a moderate , which is vital
Labour is never going to win a majority with a left of centre candidate , we have to go back to blair for our last period of office and he was a tory in a labour suit ....the first few years were good but then his true colours showed up
If we can get someone like nandy to appeal to the middle ground , which wins the election , then we might have a chance of a labour minority or coalition labour led government
But after the loss of all those seats to the krankies in Scotland, I cant see a majority led labour government in my lifetime ......and that's with a decent leader like nandy in charge
Tony Benn, skinner , kinnock , all great speakers but all mouth and no trousers
This country has sadly lurched to the right and the labour party must hit the middle ground if it's to have any chance
Rebecca long bailey would kill us off completely
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimmy the Jock
Lisa Nandy seems like a genuine person .
Hopefully that something about her will see her home .
I know we shouldn’t vote for a particular candidate by their gender, or the colour of their skin .
Labour needs a female leader .
The whole point of me posing the question on here was to draw out responses from a range of people, not just Labour supporters, but people who perhaps voted for the Liar.
What you say about a female candidate is interesting. This was actually my first thought, but having listened to some of the debates, and read many articles, I am just not so sure. Perhaps Starmer is the best of a pretty average bunch.
Still to decide! 🤨
Re: Who should I vote for?
As is often the case with me, it's easier for me to say who I wouldn't vote for than who I would! I definitely would not vote for Long-Bailey - forget any left or right argument, I'm just not convinced by her.
Starmer has also struck me as competent and pretty unflappable, but maybe it's time for someone with some fire in their belly?
Re: Who should I vote for?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
As is often the case with me, it's easier for me to say who I wouldn't vote for than who I would! I definitely would not vote for Long-Bailey - forget any left or right argument, I'm just not convinced by her.
Starmer has also struck me as competent and pretty unflappable, but maybe it's time for someone with some fire in their belly?
Whoever it is, they need to get the public to listen to them.
Re: Who should I vote for?
The deed is done.
Starmer
Rosena
Fingers crossed they will lead Labour back from the brink.
Thanks everyone for the interesting and informative advice.
Re: Who should I vote for?
Just voted, Nandy for me, Keir too middle of the road.
Re: Who should I vote for?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jeremy corbyn
Yes, the election was lost in this order
Brexit
Corbyn
Manifesto
The whole thing could not have been handled worse by Labour. Handed victory on a plate to Teflon man.
Certainly Labour has moved to the left from the Blair/Brown days, but interestingly the Tories policies have also moved to the left in a number of instances. Although you would never think it with Cummings at the helm.
Somehow has to keep its left credentials pure, but appearing middle of the road(wolf in sheepskin clothing). Becky is a bit too obvious with her leanings, perhaps Keir appears a bit more reasonable, but still having the right credentials. I dont want any prospective leader trashing the past, which Lisa has been doing.
What was the lost reasons that resulted in the elections before Corbyn is also a question that needs answering .
I'm sure there are underlying reason there, besides ge usual press bias , which is wearing very thin as an excuse .
Re: Who should I vote for?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bathblue
Just voted, Nandy for me, Keir too middle of the road.
I voted Nandy and Rayner
