Trump: Failure on a massive scale

Trump's doing a briefing every day. None seem to have gone well. They are a mix of inaccuracy and contradiction.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">After depicting the coronavirus as the flu and arguing life should go on as normal, Trump now portrays himself as the man who saved lives by standing up to the people who depicted the coronavirus as the flu and argued life should go on as normal. <a href="https://t.co/U047SoYyP3">https://t.co/U047SoYyP3</a></p>&mdash; Daniel Dale (@ddale8) <a href="https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1245202992564969472?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 1, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

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Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.

Here's someone else with a similar opinion who also questions whether demolishing economic output is a wise or proportional response. His name is Lord Sumption whose wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonath..._Lord_Sumption doesn't read like he's a nutcase. I doubt though whether he possesses the incalculable brain power of your good self and the equally modest Rudy.

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I dare say it's about whether you value the lives of others or money. You mail your feelings to the mast on this one.

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Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.

Here's someone else with a similar opinion who also questions whether demolishing economic output is a wise or proportional response. His name is Lord Sumption whose wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonath..._Lord_Sumption doesn't read like he's a nutcase. I doubt though whether he possesses the incalculable brain power of your good self and the equally modest Rudy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHE3...ature=youtu.be

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He is missing the point completely though, again going on about only vulnerable people dying etc.

And again no one is saying we shouldn't be doing something to protect businesses and workers. It's just if we walk around freely a huge number of the population will die.

I'm not sure what expertise he even has to be making the points he's making. Unless we are considering being born into a life of wealth to be a reason to give someone's opinion more credance.

I'll ask again, do you think we shouldn't be isolating?

It's true that the policy of wide isolation (1) will damage the economy. But the suggestion that organ made of only isolating the elderly and already sick (2) will also damage the economy as businesses cannot run when the number of cases explode and cannot be treated due to the beyond capacity health system.

So saying we shouldn't do (1) because it damages the economy is disingenuous. Organ is not slow, he knows this.

And everyone knows this will affect the economy, it's not some far out galaxy brain idea that no one else has had.

Option 2 will do just as much damage from a financial sense while also ****ing up the health service, killing a load of people, ****ing up a load of people's lungs beyond repair and much more.

To completely simplify it, it almost comes down to two schools - those who think that losing thousands of people to this is worth it to avoid future economic pain, and those who think the thought of losing thousands of people to this is unbearable whatever the future economic cost.

I'm happy to say, and it actually makes me feel more united within this country than I can ever remember, that the vast majority, be they Tories, Labour, Brexiteers, Remainers etc seem to be part of the latter group.

There's an unspoken attitude of "even if it's not me/my parents/grandparents it might be yours so let's do what needs to be done."

There's a lot of different political viewpoints on here for example but I get the impression that the vast majority of us hadn't even considered protecting the economy over the people as a viable option, which is why it's so jarring when some people try to push it.

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Originally Posted by delmbox

To completely simplify it, it almost comes down to two schools - those who think that losing thousands of people to this is worth it to avoid future economic pain, and those who think the thought of losing thousands of people to this is unbearable whatever the future economic cost.

I'm happy to say, and it actually makes me feel more united within this country than I can ever remember, that the vast majority, be they Tories, Labour, Brexiteers, Remainers etc seem to be part of the latter group.

There's an unspoken attitude of "even if it's not me/my parents/grandparents it might be yours so let's do what needs to be done."

There's a lot of different political viewpoints on here for example but I get the impression that the vast majority of us hadn't even considered protecting the economy over the people as a viable option, which is why it's so jarring when some people try to push it.

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What do you make of the New York City data? If I read it correctly, only 14 out of 932 cases had no underlying conditions.

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

What do you make of the New York City data? If I read it correctly, only 14 out of 932 cases had no underlying conditions.

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What I make of the New York City is when it comes to the validity of their desire to not die from the Coronavirus, I don't make a distinction between people with underlying conditions and people without

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

What do you make of the New York City data? If I read it correctly, only 14 out of 932 cases had no underlying conditions.

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What has that got to do with it? So we should walk around as we please rather than be careful for a few months because it only kills 900 people with underlying conditions every 2 weeks?

What underlying conditions did they have? Do those people deserve to die?

Why do people keep talking about people with underlying conditions as if they deserve to die?

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

What has that got to do with it? So we should walk around as we please rather than be careful for a few months because it only kills 900 people with underlying conditions every 2 weeks?

What underlying conditions did they have? Do those people deserve to die?

Why do people keep talking about people with underlying conditions as if they deserve to die?

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Who said they deserve to die? If you know who the at risk groups are, then surely any new strategy needs to be focussed on them?

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

Who said they deserve to die? If you know who the at risk groups are, then surely any new strategy needs to be focussed on them?

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The strategy is focussed on them.

How would you change it?

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

What has that got to do with it? So we should walk around as we please rather than be careful for a few months because it only kills 900 people with underlying conditions every 2 weeks?

What underlying conditions did they have? Do those people deserve to die?

Why do people keep talking about people with underlying conditions as if they deserve to die?

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I'm under treatment for high blood pressure which is something that makes me more vulnerable to Covid 19, but it seems I've got plenty of company. Apparently 31 per cent of adult men and 26 per cent of adult women in England have it and half of them are not receiving treatment. When it comes to diabetes one in sixteen people in the UK are now reckoned to have the condition. While I daresay many of them (myself included) have not done themselves any favours with the lifestyles they've led in their lives, the idea that all of them do not somehow count in any analysis of the severity of this illness (which I presume is the completely discredited line Gluey is trying to spin even though his poster boy appears to have finally grasped how serious the situation is in his country) is both laughable and pathetic.

Dont post on here anymore but follow threads, re underlying conditions, a bit misleading and salving to the general public, i'm 62 and i consider myself reasonably fit, however i have stable long term angina, my partner is is NA in a care home she has mild asthma, if god forbid we get and succumb to the virus plenty of people seem to be ok with this as we have "underlying conditions" there are probably hundreds of thousands if not millions in the uk with mild "underlying conditions" do we just write them of in our minds as expendable?

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I'm under treatment for high blood pressure which is something that makes me more vulnerable to Covid 19, but it seems I've got plenty of company. Apparently 31 per cent of adult men and 26 per cent of adult women in England have it and half of them are not receiving treatment. When it comes to diabetes one in sixteen people in the UK are now reckoned to have the condition. While I daresay many of them (myself included) have not done themselves any favours with the lifestyles they've led in their lives, the idea that all of them do not somehow count in any analysis of the severity of this illness (which I presume is the completely discredited line Gluey is trying to spin even though his poster boy appears to have finally grasped how serious the situation is in his country) is both laughable and pathetic.

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beat me to it Bob :hehe:

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Originally Posted by Packerman

Dont post on here anymore but follow threads, re underlying conditions, a bit misleading and salving to the general public, i'm 62 and i consider myself reasonably fit, however i have stable long term angina, my partner is is NA in a care home she has mild asthma, if god forbid we get and succumb to the virus plenty of people seem to be ok with this as we have "underlying conditions" there are probably hundreds of thousands if not millions in the uk with mild "underlying conditions" do we just write them of in our minds as expendable?

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I think most people are using it as a way to feel safer or that the virus is less deadly than it actually is. I think most people want to protect anyone who is at risk and that's why the "lockdown" here is working as well as it is.

Hope you both continue to be in good health :thumbup:

Until there is an anti body test that is massively available and testing in general gets to the sort of level Germany and South Korea are at then this is the best chance we have to keep the most people safe.

In this country and in others around the world I'd say obesity is an underlying concern, not maybe as significant a health concern as illnesses but for it to spread freely among our population, even those who consider themselves "healthy" would be unforgiveable.

We really don't know enough about it, there's all sort of theories out there about why certain seemingly healthy people are even affected by it far worse than others.

The stats are awful, yes people die from all sorts of things every day but yesterday we lost the capacity of a boeing 747 to something that wasn't really around a few months ago and most won't blink an eye to that figure over the coming weeks. During peacetime it's quite horrific really.

The states has lost more to this than 9-11, for that there was military conflicts, it dominated politics for years, the government got new powers.

I don't think it's unreasonable to lockdown as we have at the moment and treat the virus with the respect it deserves.

The ones with underlying conditions go first. They're the canaries in the mines. Then hospitals get busier and the spread means a higher chance of a healthy person getting a strong dose, you get them dying too.

If you want to be safe, you need to try and protect everyone.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I'm under treatment for high blood pressure which is something that makes me more vulnerable to Covid 19, but it seems I've got plenty of company. Apparently 31 per cent of adult men and 26 per cent of adult women in England have it and half of them are not receiving treatment. When it comes to diabetes one in sixteen people in the UK are now reckoned to have the condition. While I daresay many of them (myself included) have not done themselves any favours with the lifestyles they've led in their lives, the idea that all of them do not somehow count in any analysis of the severity of this illness (which I presume is the completely discredited line Gluey is trying to spin even though his poster boy appears to have finally grasped how serious the situation is in his country) is both laughable and pathetic.

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I'm in an at risk group too, but I don't necessarily see the possible collapse of the global economic system as being a viable solution either. Covid-19 will still be here after a month, and it will return again in winter. The boffins need to get their thinking caps on quickly.

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

I'm in an at risk group too, but I don't necessarily see the possible collapse of the global economic system as being a viable solution either. Covid-19 will still be here after a month, and it will return again in winter. The boffins need to get their thinking caps on quickly.

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We all know this, this is the best option at the moment though.

What would you do differently?

I've actually gone and solved it guys.

We can continue to have a strong economy, one that in the last decade has caused constant cuts to the NHS, police, public frontline services and welfare, while the pound continually drops and bankers & CEOs are thriving... the cost of not losing that economic strength?! Just let the old and sick die!

Face it, they're going to die soon anyway. I read that nobody with asthma lives past 30 these days and they have a very poor quality of life - so what's the point in risking the economy for those parasitic ****ers just leaching off the NHS?

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Seriously though, the economy is obviously going to suffer badly. It did after the crash in 2008 but we weren't living in some post-apocalyptic world after it and everybody was going about their daily business again not too long afterwards. We will get through this too. The long and short-term cost of people losing their loved ones is not the price to pay for what may or may not happen to the economy. Those who are solely focussed on the latter may need to rethink their priorities.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

I think most people are using it as a way to feel safer or that the virus is less deadly than it actually is. I think most people want to protect anyone who is at risk and that's why the "lockdown" here is working as well as it is.

Hope you both continue to be in good health :thumbup:

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:thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.

Here's someone else with a similar opinion......

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Let me ask you a question: if the vast majority of the people in this country and elsewhere simply carry on living our lives as normal and working as normal regardless of the Coronavirus, as you and the noble Lord seem to be suggesting we should, then how do you think the NHS would cope with the inevitable number of hospital admissions that will quickly follow?

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Let me ask you a question: if the vast majority of the people in this country and elsewhere simply carry on living our lives as normal and working as normal regardless of the Coronavirus, as you and the noble Lord seem to be suggesting we should, then how do you think the NHS would cope with the inevitable number of hospital admissions that will quickly follow?

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Organ fails to grasp that's the problem.

It's infectious, there's little doubt most people will get it at some point - mass spikes of cases aren't manageable... slower rates are. Given it seems having had it in isolation can give immunity, the cases longer term should fall dramatically.

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

I'm in an at risk group too, but I don't necessarily see the possible collapse of the global economic system as being a viable solution either. Covid-19 will still be here after a month, and it will return again in winter. The boffins need to get their thinking caps on quickly.

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Was waiting for you to come out with the alt right libertarian line about the collapse of the economy.

Economy will recover soon enough, we need to save people now and protect the NHS.

The likes of the Kochs, Murdoch’s and Trump’s will have plenty of time to regain their cash bless them.

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Originally Posted by Packerman

Dont post on here anymore but follow threads, re underlying conditions, a bit misleading and salving to the general public, i'm 62 and i consider myself reasonably fit, however i have stable long term angina, my partner is is NA in a care home she has mild asthma, if god forbid we get and succumb to the virus plenty of people seem to be ok with this as we have "underlying conditions" there are probably hundreds of thousands if not millions in the uk with mild "underlying conditions" do we just write them of in our minds as expendable?

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Guess you had your reasons to stop posting but I’d noticed you weren’t so was pleasantly surprised to see the Packers avatar reappear.

Stay safe

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Originally Posted by Mr Soul '68

The only positive thing to come out of this article, is that hopefully he will not be re-elected back into office

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Having read a few comments on the thread - it seems trump being a 2 term president wouldn't be popular...

I can guarantee if he's up against Biden he will be a 2 term president. And I'll be hoping he does as well.

American democrats have decided to pick an unelectable nonce - rather than Bernie Sanders who wants to raise the minimum wage above $7. And introduce standard paid holidays.

Do ppl know how bad Americans have it? You get 0 days annual leave over there - whereas I've 33 as I've been in a job 10 years so accumulated an extra 5.

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Originally Posted by Packerman

:thumbup:

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Second that. Hope you and the family are around to see us beating Leeds in our next match - and the Saints beating the Packers in the championship 😉

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Originally Posted by CardiffIrish2

Was waiting for you to come out with the alt right libertarian line about the collapse of the economy.

Economy will recover soon enough, we need to save people now and protect the NHS.

The likes of the Kochs, Murdoch’s and Trump’s will have plenty of time to regain their cash bless them.

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If the vaccine is 12-18 months away as a lower estimate then how long do you suggest keeping these measures going for?

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Originally Posted by surge

If the vaccine is 12-18 months away as a lower estimate then how long do you suggest keeping these measures going for?

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Until the curve plateaus (or, at the very least, starts to)?

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Originally Posted by surge

If the vaccine is 12-18 months away as a lower estimate then how long do you suggest keeping these measures going for?

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I expect they'll be switched on and off as the waves come. It'll die down, we'll relax the measures, and then when necessary they'll come back in.

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Originally Posted by surge

If the vaccine is 12-18 months away as a lower estimate then how long do you suggest keeping these measures going for?

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This has been mentioned quite a lot as it’s what’s most likely to happen. These measures will be relaxed once the curve of infections reach a certain point and may have to be reinstated if the curve rises again.

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Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanton

Guess you had your reasons to stop posting but I’d noticed you weren’t so was pleasantly surprised to see the Packers avatar reappear.

Stay safe

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cheers lost my previous partner to alzheimers and just lost the interest tbh but have always browsed,

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Originally Posted by DannyBluebird

Second that. Hope you and the family are around to see us beating Leeds in our next match - and the Saints beating the Packers in the championship ��

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be happy to see the packers in the championship final again :thumbup:

wonder how long the estimated 800000 small business and jobs will take to recover, and regain their cash.

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Originally Posted by Packerman

cheers lost my previous partner to alzheimers and just lost the interest tbh but have always browsed,

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❤️

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Originally Posted by lardy

I expect they'll be switched on and off as the waves come. It'll die down, we'll relax the measures, and then when necessary they'll come back in.

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That's how I see it . I reckon that is why they let some public meetings (cheltenham) go ahead but cancelled others. They were trying to get the amount of people infected right.

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Originally Posted by Packerman

be happy to see the packers in the championship final again :thumbup:

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One game away from it last year mucker. Zadarius and Preston brothers will keep you well in the mix for years to come 🤜🤛

Read a bit more of the thread - seriously sorry to hear that. My old username was Daniel15 - think we might have played fantasy NFL a few years ago? Either that or there was another cheese head

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...faces-threats?

I didn't think I could still get surprised by the news... But here we are.

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Originally Posted by Heisenberg

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...faces-threats?

I didn't think I could still get surprised by the news... But here we are.

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Don't worry, our resident Trump apologist is heroically defending Fauci in other threads by saying he is the perfect fall guy for the Sunbed King when the shit really hits the fan and the responsibility for his back catalogue of bull has to fall anywhere but him.

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But Fauci has also become a public target for rightwing pundits and bloggers who believe he is undermining the president. An article in the rightwing outlet American Thinker called Fauci a “Deep-State *Hillary Clinton-loving stooge”, and referred to a seven-year-old email in which he praised Clinton for her stamina through the Benghazi hearings. Tom Fitton, the president of the conservative group Judicial Watch, a conservative group; and Bill Mitchell, host of the far-right online talk show YourVoice America, have also reinforced Fauci criticisms and conspiracy theories.

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The exact sort of shite the ccmb politics board braintrust(TM) read and use to back up their deep thinkers bollocks. Mind rotting bullshit.